Freshman playing Varsity

We had two move up last year as freshman and pitched a few times. One had played on a team that travelled quite a bit playing at places like OK State, Kansas, those types of places and doing a lot of travelling. The other played on a "select" team but I dont think it was a team where they travelled more than an hour or two for games.

Year before that we also had two move up to varsity. One pitched some and he played on the Jr. Legion team the summer before. I dressed, but only got into a game once and that was to pinch run. I had played in what most would probably consider a rec league the summer before making trips just outside of town to play.

So, out of 2 years and 4 freshmen on varsity there was only the 1 who had played at what would most likely be considered an "elite" level.

we moved a freshman up last year to play varsity. batted 5th all year and led our team in HR's. pitched some, but not against any good opponents. he is getting his shot to be our #2 pitcher this year. and will be batting in the heart of the order once again.

We have freshman on varsity at Niles North High school. His name is Josh Levy. He will be our starting catcher. Unbelievable arm for a freshman and can swing the stick a little bit. He can have a real good future in baseball if he keeps his head on straight.

All redheads are special players

I'm sure many of the top Freshman will be starting on atleast Sophomore right away. It will be interesting to hear of what players have been moved up to start the season. I expect there will be many players moved up.

"Several" will turn out to be a few here and there. It's not like there aren't any good players on the Soph. Level.

I don't think its so much the ability of the player as it is the "necessity" of the team. My older son was moved up to Varsity on the eve of his first Freshman game because of a injury. He ended up leading the team in batting average and breaking the schools hits record as a Freshman that year. My younger son, who is further along offensively as well as physically has already been told that they do not like to move Freshman up unless they absolutely have too. So I really think it is a team by team issue and not so much the abilities of the players.....

If the varsity squad is looking to bring somebody up , the coach will most likely bring up a player from the sophmore team ...not a freshman unless the freshman is just head and shoulders better than any of the sophs .JMO

baseball14 and sulltiger I think your right on about this topic. But I'm curious, have any freshman made varsity? I've checked a few HS website that have rosters posted and noticed that Niko Gomez made the St Ignatius Varsity so congratulations to him, he's a great ball player. Any others?

Josh Levy is slated to be the starting Varsity catcher at Niles North

Redheads always have more fun

Gomez is a very good all around player. Having him moved up to varsity right away doesn't surprise me at all. Many other players I think should be moved up to atleast sophomore right away or very soon as well. Congrats to Gomez and to Levy.

In MHO, Freshman don't belong on varsity teams. Freshman year, sports teams are for social reasons as much as competition. (I wouldn't want my 14 year old son hanging with 17-18 year old teammates.) Let them play with their classmates/friends. Half way into the season, if dominating and need challenge, move them up to Sophmore level.

If a Freshman is playing on varsity right from the start, the program must be extemely weak with very limited depth or the coach has wilted under the pressure put on by an overbearing, selfish parents looking to promote their kids over the good of the program.

karlsdad- the freshmen could be just that good...... i wouldnt consider my school to be a weak team with no depth and there was a kid that was a freshmen playing varsity and he did just fine

You may conclude that a varsity team that brings up a freshman player does not have depth, but to say it is because the parents influenced the coach is a statement from thin air. What high school caoch would put a kid on the varsity team to appease a parent who wants to "promote their kid over the good of the program"? Sounds like you have an agenda that is not too hidden.

quote:

Originally posted by bballdad1954:
You may conclude that a varsity team that brings up a freshman player does not have depth, but to say it is because the parents influenced the coach is a statement from thin air. What high school coach would put a kid on the varsity team to appease a parent who wants to "promote their kid over the good of the program"? Sounds like you have an agenda that is not too hidden.

quote:

Originally posted by bballdad1954:

quote:

Originally posted by bballdad1954:
You may conclude that a varsity team that brings up a freshman player does not have depth, but to say it is because the parents influenced the coach is a statement from thin air. What high school coach would put a kid on the varsity team to appease a parent who wants to "promote their kid over the good of the program"? Sounds like you have an agenda that is not too hidden.

bballdad1954:

Your kidding or else you are dreaming. It happens. Particularly when the baseball coach is not a baseball guy.

If parents are running the program, it is not a serious program. In that case who cares who is playing where. The situations where parents are dictating what level their kids are playing are not the ones being talked about on this site. If you have examples, this is an anonomous site, let's hear them.

Play baseball

What school does this happen at ?

It is generally very difficult and rare that a freshman can play and contribute on varsity. As good as many (mostly parents and travel coaches) feel these kids are, they are just not on a level yet physicaly or talent wise to play at a decent high schools program level. They are truly better off playing everyday at the freshman or sophomore level to continue to develop. That being said there will be exceptions to this, but that is not the norm.

I am not going to name the schools. It happens. Again, particularly when the baseball coach is not a "baseball guy."

Diamondfan, there were only two kids mentioned that will be playing. I think that shows that it indeed the exception. Of course parents have higher opinions of their kids, they love thier kids and see the best in them. What I don't understand is why there is the feeling that the parents can pick the high school team and what levels their kids will play on. I feel a coach that would let parents oick the team is a greater exception than freshman who can help out the varsity with their ability.

Play baseball

I cant imagine any parent having that kind of leverage over the varsity coach to the point that the parent can force his kid onto the varsity squad whether deserving or not . That would turn out to be a situation that is not good for all parties involved , including player . It would seem to me that there would be a negative reaction by the rest of the team toward their new freshman teammate .

Parents need to realize what the repercussions could be due to their actions and how it may affect their kid. Its okay to have a conversation with the coach before the season to see where you stand . If you dont agree , then i would consider transferring , not pushing the issue with the coach .JMO

quote:

Originally posted by bballdad1954:
You may conclude that a varsity team that brings up a freshman player does not have depth, but to say it is because the parents influenced the coach is a statement from thin air. What high school caoch would put a kid on the varsity team to appease a parent who wants to "promote their kid over the good of the program"? Sounds like you have an agenda that is not too hidden.

Wow, because I brought up the fact that parents could "potentially" have influence, I have an agenda? Slow your roll! Believe me, I have no agenda on that matter. Maybe it's you who has an agenda? Don't be naive, parents can have influence over a program.

quote:

Originally posted by styles2310:
karlsdad- the freshmen could be just that good...... i wouldnt consider my school to be a weak team with no depth and there was a kid that was a freshmen playing varsity and he did just fine

You are correct, there are always exceptions. A kid could be an "older" freshman (held back in grammar school) or just maybe matured a little earlier than other kids, it happens. My point was that in most cases a Freshman plays varsity because there is a need on the varsity level. If there is a need on the varsity level, it is most likely due to a lack of depth in a "weaker" program. Again, there are exceptions!

quote:

Originally posted by sulltiger24:
It would seem to me that there would be a negative reaction by the rest of the team toward their new freshman teammate .

Parents need to realize what the repercussions could be due to their actions and how it may affect their kid.

I absolutely agree with you.

It's sad what some parents do "to" their kids in the name of trying to do "for" their kids.

quote:

Originally posted by karlsdad:


parents can have influence over a program.

I agree with this, too. Some parents can and DO influence a program.

I disagree with the fact a parent can have that much of an influence on a High school coach. What kind of High School would allow this to happen. Maybe the parents are $$Boosters? I still don't agree with a parent able to talk a coach into taking a freshman on a varsity team. If a freshman player moves up and plays sophmore or varsity, the only reason should be because of TALENT and that Talent fits into the program the Coach is running (not the parents)

As always, a position should be EARNED.

High school baseball programs are as individual as the coaches who run them. I am 100% sure that there are programs where the players' parents have zero influence on the coach's decisions just as I'm sure there are programs where politics play a part.

In big schools, it would be rare for freshman to play varsity ball, while in small schools, there may be times that a frosh is one of the best players in the school and is badly needed for the team to compete.

As to the parental influence thing, here's a hypothetical question. Would you feel parental influence if you were the varsity basketball coach at Loyola and Michael Jordan's two sons were coming through? You might. What if Michael, for his convenience, wanted both boys playing varsity when the young one was a freshman?

Just a thought...

Mike F

The younger Jordan played on the soph team as a freshman. Did okay and was banged up some of the season. I don't see M Jeff putting the presure on it's the parents of the so-so kid who decide to "donate" the pitching machine that are the ones to watch out for.

It depends on the player.

I can think of a three 05 players that deserved to be on varsity in 02. Only 1 played...and excelled.

The other 2 are playing varsity D1 as freshman.

soxnole,

I really do agree with you. I started on varsity as a freshman and albeit at a small school but I imagine it isn't much different for a 15 year old to fit in with 17 and 18 year olds at a big school. It really does depend on the player. I was able to acclumate to the situation pretty well, but there was another player on our team who had all the athletic ability and skills to play up as a freshman but he just didn't feel comfortable and wasn't able to play up to his ability. You really have to have the right frame of mind to play on varsity as a freshman, and to excel at it. It is not an easy thing to do.

Something else to keep in mind is that there are Freshman players in many schools that could play varsity, but that doesn't also mean that they should.

Scott Sexton at Oak Lawn started there as a frosh, and maybe he could've started at any number of other schools -- but he probably wouldn't have.
In that area alone:
* Richards had Whitney and Kyle something (signed with St. Joseph).
* Reavis had Mueller starting as a soph - and he lost out on varsity time as a frosh because they had 3 capable SS (the older Mueller, Lucas, and a kid named Joy).
* St. Laurence had a kid playing that might have been all-league
* Marist had a handful of kids on that side of the infield that were all-conference
* Brother Rice had a kid from the Berwyn Bulldogs

My point is that he had the talent (at least offensively) to play for all of those schools, but wouldn't have been the varsity starter because they didn't need him to be.

Not argueing your point but are you saying that a kid is locked down to one position? You just said at least Offensively he could have.
So if your a varsity coach that has a kid who as you stated could hit at that level you wouldnt make an adjustment to better your teams offense. I think most would. I saw a couple 8th graders last Fall who were in 18u tournys and more then holding their own. One was catching 87-89 and hitting off of Redmond. I think there are some that can and others who shouldnt.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike F:
High school baseball programs are as individual as the coaches who run them. I am 100% sure that there are programs where the players' parents have zero influence on the coach's decisions just as I'm sure there are programs where politics play a part.

In big schools, it would be rare for freshman to play varsity ball, while in small schools, there may be times that a frosh is one of the best players in the school and is badly needed for the team to compete.

As to the parental influence thing, here's a hypothetical question. Would you feel parental influence if you were the varsity basketball coach at Loyola and Michael Jordan's two sons were coming through? You might. What if Michael, for his convenience, wanted both boys playing varsity when the young one was a freshman?

Just a thought...

Mike F

Best post on this subject so far! Kudos to Mike F!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by deucedoc:
Not argueing your point but are you saying that a kid is locked down to one position? You just said at least Offensively he could have.
So if your a varsity coach that has a kid who as you stated could hit at that level you wouldnt make an adjustment to better your teams offense. I think most would. I saw a couple 8th graders last Fall who were in 18u tournys and more then holding their own. One was catching 87-89 and hitting off of Redmond. I think there are some that can and others who shouldnt.

8th Graders holding their own against U18's? I'm not doubting what you claim and not trying to argue but I find that hard to believe. How many of the U18's were actually 17-18 year olds? What was the quality of the tournament? Who were these kids, where were they from (TX, FL etc) or local kids? Maybe Barry Bond's has started a youth travel team!

Karl, you are new to the board 3-6-06. Deuce is an ex-pro and a respected coach. What are your credentials?

Deuce - sticking with Scott Sexton, since I cited him to begin with ... at another school he could've switched positions, but at Reavis he wouldn't have been at 3B (older Mueller slid over), or 2B (White .. at MVCC now) , 1B was occupied by the designated bat, C was Rojas (at MVCC now) or Gotsch (at St. Francis) and I don't know how he would've been in the outfield.
DH was usually the pitcher because it would've been an everyday player.

I think my example might speak more to Coach Erickson than any particular player -- he strikes me as a guy that wants kids to play as much as possible and doesn't waste kids on the varsity bench.

Of course, I probably picked a bad example because Sexton can hit.

KarlsDad: I have seen local IL kids entering their Frosh season (summer between 8th and 9th grade) play on 18U teams and hold their own. When you get down to it, at that age 17U/18U = Varsity; so it isn't too hard to imagine.

One of the 8th graders duecedoc speaks of just received a 9 rating by perfect game. And yes he more than can hold his own aginst kids 304 years older.

I will go out on a limb here...in the State of Illinois, maybe five, maybe a little less, maybe a little more, could out and clearly out perform their peers (starters) on the varsity level. I believe that number is reduced even further if that player had to compete for a spot on a top or even good high school program.

We only heard a few names thrown around on this topic. Coulda, shoulda, wouldas can't count because it did not happen. Freshman that make varsity at smaller and/or less competitive schools,while having achieved a special honor, need to be viewed within the existing competitive surroundings.

What surprises me is that several months ago, we heard about a large number of 2006 freshman would be pushing the juniors and seniors off the field this year. I did not happen. Good
reality check for the parents who thought otherwise. Yes, exceptions do exist.

What happened is regardless of what you tell yourself, the 2009 class at this is is not better, as tough, as big, as physically developed, strong or as baseball smart as their varsity peers. Thats o.k. they are only freshman. Every incoming class thinks as much to one degree or another.

I do believe however that travel/training has created a new class of high school baseball that will take the game to a new level. The talent gets better every year. If nothing else the rosters are much deeper with talent.

Excellent response lsc59. I might take it a little farther and say that the same thing applies to sophomores as well. Check the rosters on the IHSA web site for the elite 8. In AA there are almost no freshman going back a few years and very few sophomores that got playing time.

Karl...I agree with your perspective. For every 5'10", 175# freshman, playing on his varsity baseball team, there are 8,251 that are freshmen 5'5"-5'11", 135-155# and are happy to be playing freshman ball.

Fully 95% of the kids that play varsity as freshmen starters, have to be playing in programs that aren't necessarily competitive or go to smallish schools. Too, they are already mature and have facial hair and hair on their legs. No or very little projection.

Dads...What is the rush?

I've seen a couple of players go up either part time or for the second part of the season go up to varsity as Frosh. adn do well. One was Major Leaguer Dan Wilson and the other, who is now a Minor League Pitcher was 3-4 years ahead of his peers physically.

I've also seen a couple others who were brought up early and it hurt them. One even quit before his senior year. Unless your son is a man-child, don't sweat it.

JMO

While most people in the state don't know our program and would never consider us "elite," we do have one Freshman battling for a starting spot on our varsity. He will have to beat out a senior and junior but is holding his own. I do agree that most of the time, this is seldom achieved at the larger schools. We aren't a very big school and so...

CoachB25,

I won't say this too loud, lest the rest of the state finds out the truth about your program. You have achieve much success within your organization and I would ask you if you would share how rare or special is it to find a student-athlete capable of playing varsity as a freshman. Other than baseball skills, what other traits must they possess. By the way and not by me I might add, I think the words getting out.

Well, this young man stood out because his confidence factor demonstrated that he belonged. When he was given a chance to hit in front of the coaching staff, he showed excellent bat speed but also could keep his bat back when we threw off speed stuff. When I went to throw him curves and sliders to "get after him," I gave him more than he could handle. However, was very "business-like" and kept his emotions in check. I liked that. He listens and does everything he is told. He does so as quickly as possible. Therefore, I'd say that the hustle factor was important. When we put him out in the outfield his speed was apparent. He also possess a nice throwing arm. Presently, he will get a chance to win a starting position in left field and has alreay won a postion on the pitching staff. If I could mention one other trait that I really like, he is humble. His Dad posts on this site and goes by Just_Learning. Interesting that I'd post how humble the kid is and then take note of what the Dad chose to call himself. I think there might be a correlation. This young man will do very well in life.

My hope is that we factor into the equation that this is HS Baseball and that means we are concerned about all kids involved not only those who may have the ability to go to the next level. To that end I believe that an underclassman should be distinctly better than the older kid before he takes the job. A kid who has put two or three years into the program should not be pushed aside unless as I said, the younger kid is much better. Potential and projectablity are not enough to displace the older kid. Making the team better in a year or two should not have a higher importance than the baseball experience of the kids who are Juniors and Seniors. Again this is HS Baseball, not Professional or College Baseball. JMO

Most freshman that end up playing varsity are most likely doing it in positions that are thin, such as catcher. This is the case in the two young men spoken of here earlier. I would agree that in most other cases where freshmen play varsity it is due to fact that the varsity team is not very strong. Some varsity coaches won't even bring a freshman up even if he is a better player.

Obviously, all different scenarios can be involved when talking about a freshman playing varsity ball. At our school, we had a freshman play varsity a few years ago. Not common for this coach. This kid was a catcher, but DH'd his freshman year because of the quality catcher in front of him. That was on a team that finished with a 30-7 record. He's now playing at Purdue.

at Taft High School in chicago we have 4 Freshmen on our varsity. Me being one. Right now im not a starter, but i think that the experience in the pratices, and the atmosphere will turn out to be a good help my Junior/ Senior years...

Cubbum

Pay attention to what coach Pildes is trying to accomplish in his practices and you will learn a lot of things that you probably didnt learn on the travel teams that you have played on .

he is an AMAZING coach..he easliy knows way more than any of my travel coaches knew.

When Bret entered high school baseball tryouts as a freshman, he was told that he would be brought up to the soph. level. When uniforms were passed out, he was given a Varsity uniform.
We called the coach and told him that we would prefer him to stay down at the lower level if he was not going to play, the coach assured us that he would be a contributing factor to the team and would start. He did and enjoyed the experience. He "fit in" with the 17 and 18 year olds on the team. They accepted him as a team mate that could hold his own. He didn't socialize with them on weekends, he hung out with his freshman friends.

I think we all agree that if a player has the ability, he should be challenged. Travel ball
has progressed so much that freshman ball is like the Pinto league to some. That is why most of us put our kids into travel ball. At 10 years of age, during a rec league game, Bret was told he shouldn't throw so hard to first from third, cause he could hurt the boy!!!
We knew it was time to leave!!! As I'm sure was the way it was with most of you's!!!

High school programs want to win....if a freshman can contribute ... Why not?

quote:

Originally posted by Ratboy:
Something else to keep in mind is that there are Freshman players in many schools that could play varsity, but that doesn't also mean that they should.

Scott Sexton at Oak Lawn started there as a frosh, and maybe he could've started at any number of other schools -- but he probably wouldn't have.
In that area alone:
* Richards had Whitney and Kyle something (signed with St. Joseph).
* Reavis had Mueller starting as a soph - and he lost out on varsity time as a frosh because they had 3 capable SS (the older Mueller, Lucas, and a kid named Joy).
* St. Laurence had a kid playing that might have been all-league
* Marist had a handful of kids on that side of the infield that were all-conference
* Brother Rice had a kid from the Berwyn Bulldogs

My point is that he had the talent (at least offensively) to play for all of those schools, but wouldn't have been the varsity starter because they didn't need him to be.

what kid from the bulldogs?

I run the Chicago Clubbers ...... The Clubbers are coached by Ted Krga, Ray Ramos, Dave Rosene and Joe Dunnigan Sr.. Our catcher Jon Dorsey is a Freshman and is in the same skill category as Niko Gomez (St. Ignatius); he will be the varsity catcher for Simeon High School in 2006.

The following other Freshman players from the Clubbers are playing on the Sophomore team for Whitney Young Magnet High School in Chicago; Dai Bowden (EH), Frank Gowder (RHP, SS, 3B, Catcher) and Jason Ormond (RHP, 1B)........also playing for the Clubbers in 2006 is Pedro Rosa (CF, OF) another Freshman who is also attending Whitney Young and is playing at the Sophomore level is Gabe Henriques (RHP, 2B, SS and a switch hitter).

Rosa played for the Arlington Longshots in 2005 and Gabe Henriques played for the Westlawn Wildcats in 2005; both will be with the 15-U Clubbers in 2006.

Jack Havey- A very talented LHP is presently up with the Loyola varsity as they are in St. Louis this weekend. I am sure he will bounce up and down from the Soph to Var level all year to get some PT at 1st base. He is not only outstanding for a Freshman, he is outstanding at any level! 6'3 1/2" can PITCH between 80 to 84 mph with great command of all of his pitches. Being an Honor Student does not hurt either.... He will be recruited very heavily in the future.

Josh Levy is another one of the former Clubber elite baseball players (2002) who is playing at above the Freshman level. Josh is on the varsity squad at Niles North as a catcher.

The 2005-2006 Freshman class of baseball players is an extremely strong one with many players who should do very well at their respective high schools.

Jack Cinoman is another Clubber elite player who is a Freshman at Whitney Young Magnet High School and is playing at the Sophomore level. Jack played 2B and in the Outfield for the Clubbers in both 2004 and 2005.

Josh Levy is at Niles North. He is catching and pitching, he will have to make a choice on position soon! Doing both is very tough on the arm.

Mike Mistrada from Schaumburg throws a 1 hitter vs St Charles East and HR's. I'd say that's the best performance by a freshman so far. Any stats or highlights from these other guys mentioned above?

He also hit a home run in that game along with their sophmore catcher.

Jack Havey Frosh LHP got a win on the mound for Loyola this past weekend in St. Louis. He started the game and was the winning pitcher.

Looks like Batavia freshman Jordan Coffey had a pretty good outing against Geneva yesterday.

Batavia Finishes Sweep

Batdad, you have a PM.

TGONG,
Not sure why, but I couldn't find it. Sent one back your way.

Appears to be a few gem frosh down south Springfield area (Central State 8)...at least off to hot starts anway. Best of lot probably Tommy Jennings of Sacred Heart Griffin hitting well over .400 with lots of pop. And two freshmen in Jacksonville, cousins I think, a slick fielding shortstop Chaser Todd who's also well over .400 at plate and 1B Buddy Sexton with some good power numbers. I think there's couple more in conference but that's all we've seen thus far.

Jon Dorsey the freshman catcher at Simeon is having a decent season for the varsity team hitting around 350

Whitney Young High School - Freshman standout, Pedro Rosa (OF on WYHS Sophomore team) is being pulled up to the Varsity squad for the Lincoln Baseball Tournament this weekend April 21-22. Both Dorsey (Simeon) and Rosa will play for Clubbers 15-U travel team in 2006.

Freshman Jordan Coffey had another great outing against Kaneland last night. The young right hander struck out 11 in the game. 8 in the first 3 innings. The game ended with Batavia beating Kaneland in the bottom of the seventh 3-2.

Congrats Jordan!

Jordan Coffey is the real deal; I have watched him play for several years in various tournaments.

Another real deal player is Josh Levy a Freshman playing Varsity for Niles North. I have been watching Levy since 2002; he is a prolific hitter with a power swing and speed who went 4-for-5 with 2 runs scored, double, HR 5 RBI's in a April 21 game versus Gordon Tech. When playing for Clubbers Travel Team had several multiple home run games with balls hit over the wall at UIC and also at Cubs Care Park located at Clyborn and Halsted in Chicago.

Final score: Niles North over Gordon Tech 14-3.

In the Class AA Baseball Sectional Semifinals played in Hyde Park (at Mount Carmel) it was St. Ignatius (19-17) over Harlan (26-6). Final score was 12-2 in 5 Innings. Another CPS team falls by the wayside.

Freshman standout for Ignatius, Niko Gomez had a solo HR and sac fly for 2 RBI's.

Batavia has a good young pitcher who gave us a run for our money in the sectional semi's: real big kid. Should be a good one to watch down the road

jersey10- You didn't do too bad pitching yourself! My son said you were the best he's seen all year. Your SS is a good one too, rob my son of what should have been a base hit. Good luck tomorrow and at UNC.

The Batavia pitcher was Coffey. Our 2b, SS and 3b were all sophomores so we have a lot to look forward too.

il2008 you have a pm.

Warren had a freshman lefty on their pitching staff. He pitched the last three innings in the regional and pretty much shut down Grayslake.