Freshmen playing Varsity

c2019 posted:

What do you think are the pros and cons of a freshmen starting as a catcher on varsity ?

how do RC look at it ?

A recruiting coach is less interested in when a kid makes varsity and more interested in what he is when he sees him and how he projects into the future.

Really just depends on the program. Just heard about a freshman catcher getting called up to varsity on a top five nationally ranked program. I also know of freshman playing varsity at schools that are talent deficient. 

c2019 posted:

What do you think are the pros and cons of a freshmen starting as a catcher on varsity ?

how do RC look at it ?

The one con I could see is if the freshman wasn't ready for Varsity and his performance was subpar.  The other con is if the freshman were the coaches son.  

We played two teams this year that were lacking in a lot of talent (small towns) so a freshman playing varsity on those teams wouldn't mean much.   Heck we have two freshman starting on our Varsity.  

My thoughts are the pro is that if he carries his weight the team has a shot at winning, the con would be if he is overmatched and an older player can do a better job you are doing them both a disservice. It will be obvious right away if he is deserving of the position and if not you make a change.  As far as recruiting I think it doesn't have an affect any differently than if he is a soph, jr, or senior. If he can handle his position he will be seen four years instead of fewer!

Start the currently best player regardless of age.

He will learn a lot about life from the Seniors!

Pros:  If I was a RC, I'd put him on my list of kids I'd want to see now and following years.  He's going to get experience and a lot of responsibility which is a double edged sword.  Chances are pretty good that he and his high school coach will become very well acquainted with each other over the next few months. 

Cons:  Depending on the player, I'd be concerned about maturity level and the pressure he's going to put on himself.  He's playing with and against older more experienced players.  The tendency is to try to do what the older players are doing instead of doing what he can do.   If he doesn't produce, how is he going to handle being benched, competing to regain his spot, or being sent down to JV.

We've seen a number of freshmen play varsity in our very competitive District over the last 10 years.  Many of them took their lumps, but were better for it in the long run playing D1 and beyond. 

There needs to be more background to address the pro's...  quality of the team, quality of league and competition, skill level of the player, etc.  With more and more kids specializing early and playing meaningful club ball just prior to HS, this is not all that uncommon any more.  I have seen a shift, even in the last 3-4 years.  If he's starting, regardless of age, that is a pro because he is playing baseball and very involved with his team. 

We started a freshman C last year and he is pretty solid but his skill set and make-up aren't such that this assures that college ball will be in his future.  He still has some things to prove.  He is going the right direction, though, and the game experience will help.  He did not attract any extra RC attention yet just because he started V as a catcher for a decent mid-level HS program. 

One of the cons to be aware of is what Go44 hinted at.  Your parenting skills and radar will have to be on high alert and at their best.  He will be exposed to language, dialog, topics, etc., that you may not want your 14ish y.o. being exposed to.  He may be asked to hang out with guys after the game who are 18, bearded and partying.  Depending on the young man, you may also have to manage some level of humility and ego.

As far as RC's, again, we need way more background.  There are plenty of average HS freshman that get called to duty because the other players and/or program is below average or because of other circumstance (injury, eligibility, doghouse, etc.).  If he is with a strong program, it may afford more opportunity or an added feather but when it comes down to it, this is usually not where the player is seen by RC's.  Bottom line is his level of success with recruiting will depend on his skill set as compared to other recruits his targeted college/s is looking at, not as compared to his HS teammates.  If he is currently getting RC attention outside of HS ball, he will probably get some along with HS ball.  If he is not, he probably won't, yet anyway.

It's still an exciting time for player and parents.  There are several past threads on this topic that are worth searching.  Some discuss in more detail how to handle the challenges that both the player and parents will be faced with.

cabbagedad posted:

There needs to be more background to address the pro's...  quality of the team, quality of league and competition, skill level of the player, etc.  With more and more kids specializing early and playing meaningful club ball just prior to HS, this is not all that uncommon any more.  I have seen a shift, even in the last 3-4 years.  If he's starting, regardless of age, that is a pro because he is playing baseball and very involved with his team. 

We started a freshman C last year and he is pretty solid but his skill set and make-up aren't such that this assures that college ball will be in his future.  He still has some things to prove.  He is going the right direction, though, and the game experience will help.  He did not attract any extra RC attention yet just because he started V as a catcher for a decent mid-level HS program. 

One of the cons to be aware of is what Go44 hinted at.  Your parenting skills and radar will have to be on high alert and at their best.  He will be exposed to language, dialog, topics, etc., that you may not want your 14ish y.o. being exposed to.  He may be asked to hang out with guys after the game who are 18, bearded and partying.  Depending on the young man, you may also have to manage some level of humility and ego.

As far as RC's, again, need way more background.  There are plenty of average HS freshman that get called to duty because the other players and/or program is below average.  If he is with a strong program, it may afford more opportunity or an added feather but when it comes down to it, this is usually not where the player is seen by RC's.  Bottom line is his level of success with recruiting will depend on his skill set as compared to other recruits his targeted school/s is looking at, not as compared to his HS teammates.

It's still an exciting time for player and parents.  There are several past threads on this topic that are worth searching.  Some discuss in more detail how to handle the challenges that both the player and parents will be faced with.

 

 

Thanks for the replies ,

the team and program are pretty good , they have two d2 1 players who are committed , the conference Thier in is probably the toughest in our area with those schools having multiple D1 players , going to big names schools . He has been having good relationship with his HS coach within the last year ,my son as a player is really gifted with some major tools in his advantage . The older kids like him since they know his sibling who is also a upperclassmen but doesn't  play on the team . 

for his  talents he is ranked in the top 10 in our state and prob top 3 in his position .

i know the language and age is a different world as we  experienced that with my daughter who played softball as a freshmen and all 4 years on varsity .

he is really pumped about given the opp to play at that level . One our our Pitchers is throwing lower 90s and he loves catching him . I keep telling him to have fun , we have a real good father son bond , so he knows he can talk to me about anything .i always say God gave you some tools and gifts and you just need to do what you do..

c2019 posted: 

Thanks for the replies ,

the team and program are pretty good , they have two d2 1 players who are committed , the conference Thier in is probably the toughest in our area with those schools having multiple D1 players , going to big names schools . He has been having good relationship with his HS coach within the last year ,my son as a player is really gifted with some major tools in his advantage . The older kids like him since they know his sibling who is also a upperclassmen but doesn't  play on the team . 

for his  talents he is ranked in the top 10 in our state and prob top 3 in his position .

i know the language and age is a different world as we  experienced that with my daughter who played softball as a freshmen and all 4 years on varsity .

 he is really pumped about given the opp to play at that level . One our our Pitchers is throwing lower 90s and he loves catching him . I keep telling him to have fun , we have a real good father son bond , so he knows he can talk to me about anything .i always say God gave you some tools and gifts and you just need to do what you do..

 

How do you get ranked in high school?  And how is a freshman ranked before he finishes his first year?

lionbaseball posted:

c2019 posted: 

Thanks for the replies ,

the team and program are pretty good , they have two d2 1 players who are committed , the conference Thier in is probably the toughest in our area with those schools having multiple D1 players , going to big names schools . He has been having good relationship with his HS coach within the last year ,my son as a player is really gifted with some major tools in his advantage . The older kids like him since they know his sibling who is also a upperclassmen but doesn't  play on the team . 

for his  talents he is ranked in the top 10 in our state and prob top 3 in his position .

i know the language and age is a different world as we  experienced that with my daughter who played softball as a freshmen and all 4 years on varsity .

 he is really pumped about given the opp to play at that level . One our our Pitchers is throwing lower 90s and he loves catching him . I keep telling him to have fun , we have a real good father son bond , so he knows he can talk to me about anything .i always say God gave you some tools and gifts and you just need to do what you do..

 

How do you get ranked in high school?  And how is a freshman ranked before he finishes his first year?

I didn't say hs , ranked in PG 

Which conference?

Congrats 2019.  Sounds like you have a winner on your hands!  

c2019 posted:

What do you think are the pros and cons of a freshmen starting as a catcher on varsity ?

Starting on varsity as a freshman can mean a lot of different things depending on the makeup of the team, coaching, the league the team plays in and the maturity (both physical, mental and emotional) of the player.  When my son did it, I wasn't sure how he'd handle it as there's such a big difference between the upperclassmen and a freshman. . . so I had some reservations. But in terms of baseball only, I felt it would be nothing but a plus and shows, with evidence, that son had the potential to achieve his dream of playing at the collegiate level and maybe beyond.  In my son's case, it help him mature quicker both as a baseball player and as a young man and I considered that a positive thing.  Son was at at a wonderful high school with a great competitive baseball program, which provided me and son a lot of confidence.  I had actually chosen his HS over one that he was scheduled to go to because I didn't feel the school provided the right environment either within or outside of baseball.

Any negatives/cons I might mention that my son experienced were really minor ones.  Like what one might expect from the upperclassmen, it took a little while for son to feel that he fit in and was accepted at the same level as them.  As son produced well, the team developed respect for him and and treated him well like one might of a "little brother."  I firmly believe a lot of how the team approached him as a freshman had a LOT to do with how the HC managed the team.   There was always a little bit of a feeling of being "different" though as after practices and home games most of the seniors and some juniors would pack up and leave in their own cars, where son had to be picked up by "Dad" or "Mom".  If you ask my son, he would probably say that was the biggest "con" of being a freshman starter on the varsity team.

 

how do RC look at it ?

I don't think it does a whole lot other than putting a very noticeable blip on their radar.  Then a lot will depend on the performance during the freshman and following years.

I'm always happy to hear about freshmen being called up to varsity because it's a sign of a good coach (one who respects the game and the players enough to put his best nine on the field). Now the young man just has to keep what he earned. Stay focused!

2018's program has no frosh or soph's on varsity. To somewhat prove that high school ball isn't the great determining factor of continuing on to play in college, the past two years rising juniors have made verbal commitments to strong D1 programs without having played one pitch of varsity baseball. Their outings at PG and Arizona Fall were what wrote their tickets to college. 

The programs philosophy seems to be that regardless of talent level, freshman should play frosh and soph's should play JV to be with kids their own age and for some of the negatives noted above.  Not agreeing with it or disagreeing with it, but I will say that at least 4 soph's on 2018's JV team would be playing varsity at competing schools. 

GoldenSombrero posted:

2018's program has no frosh or soph's on varsity. To somewhat prove that high school ball isn't the great determining factor of continuing on to play in college, the past two years rising juniors have made verbal commitments to strong D1 programs without having played one pitch of varsity baseball. Their outings at PG and Arizona Fall were what wrote their tickets to college. 

The programs philosophy seems to be that regardless of talent level, freshman should play frosh and soph's should play JV to be with kids their own age and for some of the negatives noted above.  Not agreeing with it or disagreeing with it, but I will say that at least 4 soph's on 2018's JV team would be playing varsity at competing schools. 

I'll disagree with it -- in spades. Why would a HS coach field a team based on age? I guess he believes the "HS experience" is more important than winning.

Net net: Mediocre HS baseball experience for all.

To echo Golden Sombrero's point, there is such a wide variety of practices that it's hard to generalize. At 2019Son's high school, it's exactly the opposite -- the coaches were quite specific at the parent meeting in the fall that if a younger player and an older player were, in the coach's view, equal, then the coaches would play the younger kid. The older kid has to be better, not equal, to younger competitors. As a result, there are two freshmen playing varsity and four playing JV (at a program where the varsity is Top 100 in the country most years, including this year).

OTOH, the kids with whom 2019Son played travel ball during 12U and 13U are almost all playing varsity as freshmen -- but, then again, most of them attend D5 programs (there are seven classifications in SoCal, with D1 being the largest/best baseball schools). It sounds like the OP's son is quite talented -- and that's what will really matter to RCs, because varsity as a freshman can mean a lot of different things, depending on the circumstances.

2019Dad posted:

To echo Golden Sombrero's point, there is such a wide variety of practices that it's hard to generalize. At 2019Son's high school, it's exactly the opposite -- the coaches were quite specific at the parent meeting in the fall that if a younger player and an older player were, in the coach's view, equal, then the coaches would play the younger kid. The older kid has to be better, not equal, to younger competitors. As a result, there are two freshmen playing varsity and four playing JV (at a program where the varsity is Top 100 in the country most years, including this year).

OTOH, the kids with whom 2019Son played travel ball during 12U and 13U are almost all playing varsity as freshmen -- but, then again, most of them attend D5 programs (there are seven classifications in SoCal, with D1 being the largest/best baseball schools). It sounds like the OP's son is quite talented -- and that's what will really matter to RCs, because varsity as a freshman can mean a lot of different things, depending on the circumstances.

So what you are saying is the best at 12 are the best at 17 even though they are only 15?  Sorry, couldn't resist!

2019DAD - our 2018 is at a D2 school that won two CIF playoff games last year, so certainly a solid - if not Top 100 - program. If it was my program I would play the best player, and echo your coaches sentiment that a senior must be BETTER than the younger player to get playing time over him. I totally get JP24's opinion as well - and do have to wholeheartedly agree that my sons high school baseball experience has been exceedingly mediocre (but his travel ball experience has been extremely beneficial). 

If I had to make a choice, I would rather 2018 played in a system like 2019DAD's as all three of the high school teams would be stronger for it (at least baseball wise). Weed out the kids who can't really cut it, as opposed to the current 71 kids they have between the three levels. When I say "I don't agree or disagree" it is more the basic philosophy of saying 14-16 year olds will have a tough time socially with 17-18 year olds, and the kids may be better served staying with their peers.

As I have posted here before, my 2018 has an unusual athletic path - he runs varsity sprints & long jump in track at the same time as playing JV baseball. The track coaches couldn't be better about sharing time, and for the most part the seniors on the track team welcomed him with open arms both last year and this year. But track is a different beast - a kid is against a clock or a tape measure, that's it. No coach's whims, no politics. The fastest kids run, period. I know that for as "welcome" as 2018 feels on varsity track, he feels every bit as "unwelcome" when practicing and playing with the seniors in baseball -as do the other underclassmen. Amazing how the two sports coaches have fostered completely different cultures within the same campus. Both varsity teams have had some success, but they have went about it completely different ways. 

My kid experience as a freshman, position starter has been nothing but positive... Our 8-A (Highest Classification in FL) FHSAA district was extremely competitive (our district was broken up this season and now we are now 9-A)  - with 4 different teams making it to JetBlue and the Final-4 of the State Championship in the last 4-years - with 3 teams making it to the Championship game, and 2 teams walking away with the Championship trophy...

The first season out of the 26 games he started in, he was able to face 18 D-1 committed pitchers, talk about baptism by fire!

Here's another anecdote to demonstrate the wide variance in how freshmen are placed, depending on the school/program. In one of 2019Son's JV games this year, the opposing starting pitcher was a freshman ranked by PG in the Top 5 in the country. Not playing varsity (though he sure as heck looked like a varsity pitcher -- sitting 85, touching 87, with a good curveball).

2019Dad posted:

Here's another anecdote to demonstrate the wide variance in how freshmen are placed, depending on the school/program. In one of 2019Son's JV games this year, the opposing starting pitcher was a freshman ranked by PG in the Top 5 in the country. Not playing varsity (though he sure as heck looked like a varsity pitcher -- sitting 85, touching 87, with a good curveball).

If the kid has good control he would most likely be one of the top pitchers in our district, if not in a 60 mile radius.  

2018 was  varisty closer last season with 6 saves and 2 wins. threw 21 innings with .37 ERA....  faced 72 batters struck out 47 ish.....  I hope he closes this year as well to keep the innings down.... we have two other SEC commits that are Jr's and a couple of Sr's committed to JUCO and D3.... So in this program it works for a freshman to play varsity because of what he is asked to do... a starting catcher as a freshman in a good program is opening the door for too many innings at a young age in my opinion. I would be concerned about the number of innings he will be expected to catch..

Honestly, the fact that he is on varsity will mean jack squat to RC's. More important to them is the measurables, which he obviously has, given the PG rating. Being on varsity or not is strictly circumstantial. I'll give you two contrasting examples. Our team has a freshman catcher on varsity because the #2 catcher just had his knees scoped last week. At the first scrimmage, our HC had him behind the plate for my son - threw him in the fire with mid-upper 80's pitcher to see how he's respond. he actually did quit well. In contrast, my son's summer team catcher is a kid that was PG's 14u player of the year last season, has a sub-1.80 pop time and hits bombs. Yet, he probably won't make varsity this year as a freshman because he's behind two stud senior catchers. To add to the story, this kid is already a major recruit with several offers. A coupe of weeks ago, while on a recruiting visit, we were standing on the field talking to the HC and RC of a Power D1 school. The subject of this catcher came up and he turned to the RC and said, "I told you, get me that kid." I think he could care less if he played high school varsity as a frosh.

roothog66 posted:

Honestly, the fact that he is on varsity will mean jack squat to RC's. More important to them is the measurables, which he obviously has, given the PG rating. Being on varsity or not is strictly circumstantial. I'll give you two contrasting examples. Our team has a freshman catcher on varsity because the #2 catcher just had his knees scoped last week. At the first scrimmage, our HC had him behind the plate for my son - threw him in the fire with mid-upper 80's pitcher to see how he's respond. he actually did quit well. In contrast, my son's summer team catcher is a kid that was PG's 14u player of the year last season, has a sub-1.80 pop time and hits bombs. Yet, he probably won't make varsity this year as a freshman because he's behind two stud senior catchers. To add to the story, this kid is already a major recruit with several offers. A coupe of weeks ago, while on a recruiting visit, we were standing on the field talking to the HC and RC of a Power D1 school. The subject of this catcher came up and he turned to the RC and said, "I told you, get me that kid." I think he could care less if he played high school varsity as a frosh.

exactly right