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Freshmen starting in college

T twotex1,000+ posts
How common is it for freshmen to start on a college team? There's a lot of advice about going where you can play immediately, but is this realistic for most? I would think that if you are going to a winning program, it is because there are good players ahead of you.

The coach where my son is going next year told him to expect to be a bench player next year, behind a junior. My son took it as a challenge to work hard before next year and plans to exceed the coach's expectations.

Looking for a reality check.
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Buckeye 2015Buckeye 201510,000+ posts
That's a tough question to answer without knowing your son's skill level and the level of the college. My son is a sophomore in HS, and based on watching some small college baseball the past couple years, he could start for some of those schools now.....but he's likely not going to start as a college freshman at North Carolina or Stanford....lol
dad43dad431,000+ posts
Very tough question to answer, it is situation by situation answer, however overall I think it is very difficult for freshman to start. Freshman have to compete with players 2-3 year older and mature. The freshman also have to deal with learning the grind of balancing the workload where the upperclassmen learned the process.

DOes not mean it can not happen because it does happen...MY POV is that it a challenge.

Your son is taking the right approach...taking it on as a challenge is all he really can do....he does that good things might happen.
bballmanbballman10,000+ posts
I think it is a tough question to answer, but the bottom line is, if you outperform your teammates, you will have the opportunity to play. My son goes to a top DII and I know a couple of years ago there was a freshman pitcher who wound up being a weekend starter. It was because he got guys out. One of his HS teammates went to Clemson last year. He wound up starting a lot of games as a freshman. He had always been a SS, but started most of his games in LF. They wanted his bat in the lineup and they found a place for him to play.

It's not impossible. I think the coaches want the guys out there who they think will give them the best chance to win. I don't think they care if it's a freshman, a senior, a scholarship guy or a walk-on. If you perform, you will play.
P Prime91,000+ posts
quote:
How common is it for freshmen to start on a college team?


Since this is a "general" question I don't think it's really all that tough to answer. I'd say the chances are similar to what they were for Freshmen in H.S. ball. I'd guess for every one that starts, there are ten who don't. Attending a school that doesn't generally field a winning team, enhances your chances.

We as parents are ALL guilty of viewing our Players talent a tad more optimistically than does the College Coach. Thinking your H.S. Sophomore son could start on a decent College program now, could be a path to disappointment. I agree with "bballman" in that IF the player gets a shot and shows he can perform more consistently than the incumbent(s), he will get playing time.
Last edited by Prime9
bballmanbballman10,000+ posts
You're right Prime. It is a big IF. Just like in HS, there is usually a pretty big difference between a freshman and a senior. The seniors in college are really men. Not the boys we sent off to college for the first time. It may be a big IF, but I believe college coaches are all about the "W", so IF a freshman performs and the coach thinks he can help him get the "W", I think he will have a chance.
R RedSoxFan21500+ posts
I would say there is a significant difference between College and HS. In many HS's there are freshmen teams, JV, and Varsity. You have to overcome not only the talent barrier, but some coaching barriers who are loyal to seniors, team progression, etc.

From what I have seen in looking at college box scores is that the coach there is most interested in winning, and not looking at class. Period. The best 9 will play based on the coach's assessment of the opponent and the status of the players that week.

Then it comes down to being qualified to be on the field. As we all know, if you are a standout hitter then the coach will find a place for you on the field. Beyond that he needs to place the best player in the skill positions from C to P to MI to CF.

So with all that in mind you need to put reality into play. Is a boy moving to college odds on a favorite to be bigger, stronger, smarter, and more athletic than players who have survived previous years' weeding out experiences? It's possible. It's not insurmountable. But the player who is realistic about his chances and continues to gnaw at the bone of challenge is most likely to get to that field sooner.
infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by twotex:
How common is it for freshmen to start on a college team? There's a lot of advice about going where you can play immediately, but is this realistic for most? I would think that if you are going to a winning program, it is because there are good players ahead of you.

The coach where my son is going next year told him to expect to be a bench player next year, behind a junior. My son took it as a challenge to work hard before next year and plans to exceed the coach's expectations.

Looking for a reality check.


twotex, I think your son was listening and interpreting quite well. In general, upper class men in a program will have some loyalty from the coaching staff. On the one side, the upper class men needs to play his way out of a position while the freshman must prove himself, in close to game/game situations, and must clearly "earn" playing time and a position. While it happens, it probably isn't the norm for a freshman to be in a college lineup when the umpire yells "play ball" in February. If we watch a college season unfold, more freshman will get innings or AB's by the 10-15th game and with success more innings and AB's from then on.
One aspect which can be a bit under the radar is the competition and the enthusiasm freshman can bring to even a very experienced roster. Both make everyone and the team better. Freshman who really work hard bring an energy which can help a veteran team and freshman can be helped by veterans who provide great leadership and heart. There can be an amazing synergism which produces remarkable results over a college season when the best comes from each.
Some college coaches are very good in bringing freshman along carefully and gradually during that first Spring and putting them in situations where they have the best chance of success.
Just a guess on my part but I would be somewhat surprised if your son's future college coach isn't expecting your son to compete and pressure that returning junior so both get better, neither gets even a little comfortable, and the team benefits overall from both, even if one gets most of the innings.
Last edited by infielddad
BishopLeftiesDadBishopLeftiesDad10,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by infielddad:
quote:
Originally posted by twotex:
How common is it for freshmen to start on a college team? There's a lot of advice about going where you can play immediately, but is this realistic for most? I would think that if you are going to a winning program, it is because there are good players ahead of you.

The coach where my son is going next year told him to expect to be a bench player next year, behind a junior. My son took it as a challenge to work hard before next year and plans to exceed the coach's expectations.

Looking for a reality check.


twotex, I think your son was listening and interpreting quite well. In general, upper class men in a program will have some loyalty from the coaching staff. On the one side, the upper class men needs to play his way out of a position while the freshman must prove himself, in close to game/game situations, and must clearly "earn" playing time and a position. While it happens, it probably isn't the norm for a freshman to be in a college lineup when the umpire yells "play ball" in February. If we watch a college season unfold, more freshman will get innings or AB's by the 10-15th game and with success more innings and AB's from then on.
One aspect which can be a bit under the radar is the competition and the enthusiasm freshman can bring to even a very experienced roster. Both make everyone and the team better. Freshman who really work hard bring an energy which can help a veteran team and freshman can be helped by veterans who provide great leadership and heart. There can be an amazing synergism which produces remarkable results over a college season when the best comes from each.
Some college coaches are very good in bringing freshman along carefully and gradually during that first Spring and putting them in situations where they have the best chance of success.
Just a guess on my part but I would be somewhat surprised if your son's future college coach isn't expecting your son to compete and pressure that returning junior so both get better, neither gets even a little comfortable, and the team benefits overall from both, even if one gets most of the innings.


This is right on. My son is a pitcher and in February he was getting innings in relief and was getting guys out. They went down south for spring and got a few starts. When they came back north he was the second weekend starter. His conference plays double headers on the weekends for conference play. Is this what his coach expected at the beginning of fall baseball, no. But he was the best choice due to several reasons. Was it what my son expected? Yes, he went into the fall expecting to win a position, was it because the coach told him he would? No.

He plays for a DIII so that had something to do with it, but even at a DIII you have to earn your spot.

Yes Freshman can start but they will have to be the best option and in some cases have to work harder than the upper class men.
T twotex1,000+ posts
When my son was on his overnight visit, he went to the weight room. On the door of the weight room he found a sheet with pop times, 60 times, etc, for the current players. I don't know how many times he has looked at those stats. I know what he is doing - he is setting his goals.

For my son, having a coach believe in him enough to offer him a roster spot is a huge motivator. He's a competitor, and he will fight for innings. I've seen him do it time after time. Doesn't phase him in the least.
SdleftySdlefty500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by twotex:
When my son was on his overnight visit, he went to the weight room. On the door of the weight room he found a sheet with pop times, 60 times, etc, for the current players. I don't know how many times he has looked at those stats. I know what he is doing - he is setting his goals.

For my son, having a coach believe in him enough to offer him a roster spot is a huge motivator. He's a competitor, and he will fight for innings. I've seen him do it time after time. Doesn't phase him in the least.


My son is just like yours!
BOFBOF10,000+ posts
I can’t really add much to what others have posted, but just remember that injuries play a huge part of what happens in college baseball. Being prepared and ready to step in, pushing those ahead of him, is a huge part of the underclass experience. Good coaches will work in their promising underclassmen; in mid-week games, blowouts (both ways) or in situations to get them the experience. I was surprised that my son’s coach started him in a couple of regional games, I think to get him the experience in playing under pressure in a big game, so come next year he will understand what it is all about. His team lost several key players during the season, two for the whole season and a number of others for a game here or two. Work hard and be prepared because you never know what is going to happen.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
Starting as a freshman will depend on opportunity and how the player's potential compares to the level of competition. If a D3 player could have played mid major and last year's player at his position graduated he has a shot. If a kid arrives at a D1 as a top pro prospect and he's better than other players he has a shot. The bottom line is make the effort. You never know.
fenwaysouthfenwaysouth10,000+ posts
In adddition to what has already been covered.....

Freshmen starters happen, but it is kind of like a Big Foot sighting...pretty rare. I wouldn't count on it, but I would count on learning how to win a starting position for the following year.

I think any freshmen player who can seperate himself from others on the mound and at the plate stands a good chance of earning a starting or off the bench opportunity in the early Spring non-conference games. If he continues to perform and demonstrates ability, he may earn additional opportunities in conference games when it really matters to a coach & team. He'll need to continue that high level to maintain that starting spot.

A pleyer can (best) seperate himself from others in Fall scrimmages & practices and winter workouts.
fenwaysouthfenwaysouth10,000+ posts
PG,

I think you may have answered your own question. Not every program is a top program. From my viewpoint, most of the D1 games I see are not top programs and very, very few freshmen are starting. Yes, each year juniors from top programs are drafted which opens up some opportunity for talented freshmen or JUCO transfers to succeed them in these top programs. For the programs that don't have many juniors leave (top programs) the upper classmen left will be starters, as well as the sophomores that have figured it out....which means less opportunity for freshmen. Just a thought.
younggunyounggun5,000+ posts
Sometimes you just never know until you get there. The above info to always work hard and be prepared is never more obvious than in the example that follows. My nephew was always one of the top 2-3 players on his teams as he came up through little league, majors, etc. He started on varsity as a sophomore and was a team captain that lead the team in batting as a junior. Kid decided to play summer ball with his summer team instead of playing with high school. (He had played with high school the past 2 summers) He went to coach before summer season and explained his situation to the hs coach. Coach got very upset and told him to turn in his equipment that his startig job was not his next year since he wasn't playing summer ball with hs team. I could go on and on at this point, but what is the use. Basically I told his dad not to worry about hs coach's threats, the cream always rises to the top. Kid got a full ride at D1 that was ranked in top 30 preseason. He went in with the approach that he was going to be the starting catcher. He was named the starting catcher. Now he did struggle offensively during the first half, but ended up batting over .300 and led the nation in HR for freshmen for most of the year. I think he ended up with 10 or 12. My point in all of this is obviously you have to have talent, but hard work and determination can get you very far. In his case, the talent cracked the door but his relentless determination and hard work on / off the field kicked the door down. So I will agree with PG it does and can happen for those with the talent + desire. I know I would hope my son shows up with the intent on EARNING a starting position.
infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
Nearly every top program in the country has freshman who start or play a lot. I don't understand why people think it is so rare. In many programs the freshman starters outnumber the senior starters. Each year the bulk of the draft are college juniors. Most of these players started or played a lot as freshmen.


PG, the OP and question related to a freshman coming in and starting over a returning junior. Blandino at Stanford last Spring would be a great example. It took him almost 1/3 of the season to get an AB with Piscotty, Kaupilla and Diekroeger, all juniors, in front of him. Eventually, Blandino hit his way into the line up, but not at the beginning of the season. It is not common for a freshman to force his way into the starting lineup at the beginning of a season when a junior is returning.
S SwampboyHSBBWeb Administrator
The examples offered so far suggest the possibility that top programs are more likely to have more freshmen starters than mid-majors or lower division schools.

--More of their starting positions come open earlier because they lose more juniors to the draft.
--They don't always have groomed replacements ready because more of their non-starters transfer, either because their scholarships were cut or they believe they can start elsewhere.
--They bring in more truly elite talent with advanced physical maturity capable of assuming starting roles.

Of course, none of this means it's easier to start at Stanford, Florida, or South Carolina. It's just that those schools are more likely to bring in the rare specimens who can start at those schools as freshmen.

Thus, the examples of what happens at the Omaha-bound schools don't undermine the good answers offered by dad43, Prime9, bballman, RedSoxFan21, FenwaySouth, and the others who said how hard it usually is for freshmen to get starting opportunities.

If you look at the rosters of the top programs, you see lots of freshmen, lots of juniors (including inbound transfers), and not so many sophomores and seniors. At other schools, the less likely they are to have multiple players drafted each year, the more balance you're likely to see among the sophomore, junior, and senior classes. At these more "normal" schools, where coaches expect most of the players who come back after the freshman year to stay for four years, there is more likely to be a deliberate grooming approach with exceptions only for unusual talent or unexpected gaps. Thus, the more "normal" the school, the less likely you are to see a lot of freshmen starting.

As always, when speaking in generalities, there will be many exceptions, with coaching changes being one of the most disruptive.
Last edited by Swampboy
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
quote:
PG, the OP and question related to a freshman coming in and starting over a returning junior. Blandino at Stanford last Spring would be a great example. It took him almost 1/3 of the season to get an AB with Piscotty, Kaupilla and Diekroeger, all juniors, in front of him. Eventually, Blandino hit his way into the line up, but not at the beginning of the season. It is not common for a freshman to force his way into the starting lineup at the beginning of a season when a junior is returning.


Actually Stanford plays Freshman as much as anyone. They recruit kids with the intent of playing them as a freshman.

As a Freshman Diekroeger started at Stanford from day 1.

As a Freshman Piscotty started at Stanford from day 1.

As a Freshman Kaupilla started at Stanford from day 1.

Tyler Gaffney, Brian Ragira, Austin Wilson, all started nearly every game as a freshman. Others including pitchers got lots of innings as a freshman.

So you could say, Stanford's lineup this year will be full of kids who started as freshman.

Rather than rare, it seems like freshman at Stanford starting or at least playing a lot is the norm. Granted the players they recruit are exceptional.

I guess it’s the word “rare” that I’m having a problem with. Is it rare for a player to have enough talent to start or play a lot as a freshman at a top college? I guess you could say it is fairly rare when compared to the number of those that don’t have that type of talent. For those that have that talent, it is not rare at all.

I would “guess” that most programs would have a few starters that started or played a lot when they were a freshman. They’re not a freshman now, but they were. If the player is good enough as a freshman (is that rare?) he is going to play. I can’t believe that many top players are signing with colleges expecting anything other than playing as a freshman. Yes, this does lead to transferring schools at times when it doesn’t work out that way.
infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
I guess I am not making my point very well.
The OP, as I read the post, asked about playing as a freshman in the context of a quality returning junior at that position. That has been the context of my responses including the Stanford reference.
PG, if we look at your list, the only true returning infielder with the Diekroeger/Piscotty class was Jake Schlander at shortstop. Stanford played Diekroeger out of position at 3B where they didn't have a top returning player, where he never played again after his freshman year. They played Piscotty, a normal 3B, at first out of position because they didn't have a solid 1B and they placed Diekroeger at 3B. For that class, they didn't have solid juniors other than Schlander.
This past Spring, they were loaded with juniors and had Blandino sit for almost 15 games, without much if any action. Even then, he entered at 3B because of Kaupilla and Diekroeger at 2nd and short.
If Stanford, for instance, does not have a solid junior returning, freshman play, especially now with the extremely high quality of their recruits. One can also assume Stanford plans pretty well in their recruiting for top recruits in open positions.
Even that rarely if ever happens at one position, catcher. This year they had a very, very top freshman catcher coming in and he hardly had any innings. They moved, Eric Smith, a back up 3B to catcher, a position he never played before. If we go back many years, we find many top catching recruits at Stanford including Lucy,Hester, Juhl and others and none started as a freshman.
Last edited by infielddad
younggunyounggun5,000+ posts
indielddad, I see your point as well as PGs. I think the college coach is going to play his best 8 position players, regardless of class. This may mean a younger player plays outside his "normal" position, as the examples in your last post point out. Maybe that freshman had been playing out of position before getting to the college level. I only have one example, so its not a very good sample size. Buster Posey went to FSU as a SS. I had the pleasure of watching Buster through high school, but I never felt he would be a SS beyond high school simply because of his lack of speed. Buster had "range" because he was so intellegent he positioned himself prior to the pitch based on what his pitcher's strengths were as well as his scouting of the batter. I've seen times where he was starting almost behind second base and I was in the stands thinking, "What is this kid doing?" Well 9 out of 10 times the batter hit the ball right at Buster. I saw this happen over and over. Other times he would be far over in the hole toward third base. But Buster didn't have true "range" that elite SS possessed. Many thought he would be drafted as a pitcher. I thing perfect game scouts felt he had one of the best arms in his class. I'm not a scout, very far from it. But, I do know what a hitter looks like when I see one. I never felt Buster would be a pitcher because his bat was too good. He could throw 91-93 with command of 3 pitches as a high school pitcher. He just wasn't the 6'5" righty. He was an All American SS at FSU as a freshman. He was then asked to play a position he had never played to the best of my knowledge and now, 4-5 years later he is a potential MVP as a MLB catcher. Would he be there as a SS? I don't know, but personally I doubt it. Not sure I stayed on point, but my intent is that if you have the talent at the collegiate level, I would bet that you will be on the field.
infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
quote:
indielddad, I see your point as well as PGs. I think the college coach is going to play his best 8 position players, regardless of class. This may mean a younger player plays outside his "normal" position, as the examples in your last post point out.


I agree completely with that and agree completely with PGStaff on the fact that freshman play in most programs when coaches know they can get the job done and players show they do get the job done. Once Blandino got the opportunity, which happened to be in the ASU series, I believe, (he received the National player of the week for his performance), he was not coming out of the line up.
Of course there are players on the Stanford roster(one outfielder and one infielder) who, in my opinion, would be starting in many, many programs, and have very few innings at Stanford over 2-3 seasons.
SdleftySdlefty500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by younggun:
indielddad, I see your point as well as PGs. I think the college coach is going to play his best 8 position players, regardless of class. This may mean a younger player plays outside his "normal" position, as the examples in your last post point out. Maybe that freshman had been playing out of position before getting to the college level. I only have one example, so its not a very good sample size. Buster Posey went to FSU as a SS. I had the pleasure of watching Buster through high school, but I never felt he would be a SS beyond high school simply because of his lack of speed. Buster had "range" because he was so intellegent he positioned himself prior to the pitch based on what his pitcher's strengths were as well as his scouting of the batter. I've seen times where he was starting almost behind second base and I was in the stands thinking, "What is this kid doing?" Well 9 out of 10 times the batter hit the ball right at Buster. I saw this happen over and over. Other times he would be far over in the hole toward third base. But Buster didn't have true "range" that elite SS possessed. Many thought he would be drafted as a pitcher. I thing perfect game scouts felt he had one of the best arms in his class. I'm not a scout, very far from it. But, I do know what a hitter looks like when I see one. I never felt Buster would be a pitcher because his bat was too good. He could throw 91-93 with command of 3 pitches as a high school pitcher. He just wasn't the 6'5" righty. He was an All American SS at FSU as a freshman. He was then asked to play a position he had never played to the best of my knowledge and now, 4-5 years later he is a potential MVP as a MLB catcher. Would he be there as a SS? I don't know, but personally I doubt it. Not sure I stayed on point, but my intent is that if you have the talent at the collegiate level, I would bet that you will be on the field.


I agree with the younggun. Freshmen come in and will compete and push older players during the fall. Which in it's self is a great thing within a team, as it brings out the best in everyone. It will be up to the HC to decide who the best 8 are and roll.

Lefty
B Bear1,000+ posts
Realistically?

- Freshman D1 position players must put up some huge numbers in the fall to get a decent opportunity in the spring. No hit in fall,
and no hit in spring, very limited AB opportunities as a freshman.

- Freshman D1 pitchers who don't start in spring see middle relief and limited innings.

- If there is injury, however minor, don't expect to be returning to field as fast as you want. This will be more & more frustrating. The meds at most Universities are run by the trainers (and sometimes unqualified at that) for non-revenue producing sports.

Check

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