Gaining or losing weight ques.

My 2016 spent most of HS trying to add weight (and always complaining about how hard it was), in spite of routine milkshakes, two-a-day dinners where the second dinner was typically a 1/2 pound hamburger with 4 slices of bacon, and pre-meal "snacks" of a handful of cookies or candy.  During a health class his freshman year he calculated that his typical day was 4000 calories.

5 pounds of lean muscle for someone with that kind of metabolism is going to take plenty of protein and as many extra calories from fat as you can manage, with the corresponding strength work to build the muscle, and it's still probably going to take a fair bit of time.  My son's last 15 pounds took at least 12-18 months, and included another inch of height growth to help out.

playball2011 posted:

son came home from college w written instructions from trainer/P coach. Doing nice job following except difficult to thrown long toss with all the rain. Only one place in town where he can truly throw inside, and it's usu booked.

he was told to try and gain 5-6 lbs before season starts.  Has been a struggle. Trying to add more calories in between meals. Any suggestions on high calorie good foods that would be worth a try? Want him to put it on the right way.

he also mentioned a few teammates got directions to try to loose 25plus pounds. Assuming they will be given a few months to do in a healthy way. Anyone with success in loosing?

The secret is to consume more calories than he is using up. Add in more carbs and healthy fats. Peanut butter sandwiches before bed and chicken, chicken , chicken and more chicken.  He needs to gain because at the end of the season he will lose quite a lot. 

Not sure of his routine but he needs to build muscle which adds weight ,if that is what coach wants, or just added weight.

playball2011 posted:

son came home from college w written instructions from trainer/P coach. Doing nice job following except difficult to thrown long toss with all the rain. Only one place in town where he can truly throw inside, and it's usu booked.

he was told to try and gain 5-6 lbs before season starts.  Has been a struggle. Trying to add more calories in between meals. Any suggestions on high calorie good foods that would be worth a try? Want him to put it on the right way.

he also mentioned a few teammates got directions to try to loose 25plus pounds. Assuming they will be given a few months to do in a healthy way. Anyone with success in loosing?

Pretty much agree with TPM. . . lots of chicken and peanut-butter is what my son has done.  And rather than trying to get all the calories in the typical three meals, my son found it works best having 4 meals a day.  And it goes something like this: Morning breakfast typically consists of at least 4 eggs (usually scrambled or an omelet mixed with spinach)  along with some fruit and peanut-butter on a slice of toast and a small glass of  low fat milk (no fruit juices as they have too much sugar) and occasionally a small bowl of oatmeal.  Lunch is a nice turkey or chicken sandwich on whole grain wheat bread along with a green salad plus a glass of protein drink.  Next meal is late afternoon having something like grilled chicken or turkey or pork with a green veggie and a green salad and some fruit (e.g. apples, watermelon) glass of water.  Next meal is at about 8:30 at night and is typically much like the previous meal with maybe another slice of whole grain wheat bread with lots of peanut-butter.  Plenty of water all day to stay hydrated, which is important if one is doing regular heavy workouts.  Maybe once a week or so he'll go for some red meat to to break the monotony.  

Hopefully, that gives you some ideas.

playball2011 posted:

 

he also mentioned a few teammates got directions to try to loose 25plus pounds. Assuming they will be given a few months to do in a healthy way. Anyone with success in loosing?

Sticking to a high protein (avoiding fatty meats and cheese) with a little bit of carbs diet and heavy on the work outs can do it.   It helps a LOT to eliminate all sources of sugars and have low amount of starches.  Burning a lot more calories than is consumed is the key of course.

Son came into college weight 180 at 5'11". Trainer / coach said he wanted him to put on 15# over a 12 month period. He is on a 5000 calorie a day diet. Much like what TPM and Truman said. He drinks a lot of "muscle milk" as well. Probably 2-3 containers a day.

He lives close to home (20 minutes) so he and his 3 roommates come over to our house once a week as a rule. We grill chicken and lean muscle steaks for them (they eat both) as well as salads, baked potatoes, green vegetable. My wife used to make dessert at first but found that a waste of time, they didn't eat it .  

As far as late meal, he and roommates tend to rotate between the chicken/ turkey meal and eggs / omelets. The guys (4 of them) go thru 24- 30 eggs a day.

He ended up gaining 18 pounds of muscle in 12 months and grew an inch- so now 6" and 198 as of last week (15 months from recommendation). He is still growing so goal is by next September to be 210#.

PS, he used to like peanut butter, now he tolerates it since he eats it so much . says whenever he is done with baseball he will never eat it again

Chefmike,

Just a suggestion, cut down on eggs and add in egg whites. Also, he can substitute peanut butter with the new powder.  

Best of luck to your son !

Tpm,

Thanks, good suggestion. Who knows he, may already be doing that, but I will be sure to suggest it to him

Eating badly does nothing except put on bad weight. Go to 5-6 meals a day (two of those meals can be protein shakes). Stay away from bacon burgers as a second dinner. Your protein intake should match your target weight of you are hitting the gym. 

Consider yourself lucky. It's easier to put on 5-6 lbs. than take off 25! Good luck.

I agree with the above.  I think most of the young boys could eat better, and I am constantly preaching that.  I thought Ryno would have the Freshman 15, and be 225 this year, but with all the running, he has gone the other way.  He has dropped 8 lbs so far.  6'4" and 208.  He says the food at the cafeteria is not very healthy, and that is a definite disadvantage for him. I guess that is one of the really good perks of the Power 5 conferences.  There is so much more money that they can care for their athletes better. 

Trying to get my 2017 catcher to gain weight. 5'10" and 165. He's pretty ripped. Complains about how hard it is to gain weight. I say: "enjoy this time". I also said I'd be happy to transfer 20 pounds from me to him and without missing a beat said "I don't want 20 pounds of fat..." He survived that one. I also hope/expect he'll grow 2+" like I did when I was 18-19.

Lots and lots of protein.

2015 put on 13 pounds so far. Access to food (school food plan) is a big part of it--chicken parm and calimari in same meal, e.g. , together with lifting program. Gets muscle milk too from his football playing roommates.  I made him some interesting chocolate chip (muscle milk) pancakes since he's been home. He's shooting for the remainder (5 lbs) before the first pitch of the season. (Getting all 4 wisdom teeth out next week  which I am sure will affect his weight gain)

playball2011

I'm kind of surprised the trainer did not outline a nutritional roadmap for those needing to gain weight.   Possibly our experience was different than most, but I wouldn't expect it to be.

Son's trainer provided a very detailed (winter) outline of workout routine, diet w/options and targeted outcomes.  My son gained an easy 15lbs muscle (legs and butt) on a 180lb frame freshmen year with a very limited diet as he is a picky eater and gluten intolerant.  Trainer also provided gluten intolerant guidelines for him.  I'd send a quick note to the trainer asking for recommendations keeping in mind some of the suggestions provided in this thread.

Good luck!

soulslam55 posted:

Stay away from bacon burgers as a second dinner. Your protein intake should match your target weight of you are hitting the gym. 

Peanut butter, per ounce, 165 calories, 116 from fat, 7g protein, 14g fat.

Roasted chicken breast, per ounce, 46 calories, 9 from fat, 9g protein, 1g fat.

80% lean hamburger, per ounce, 76 calories, 44 from fat, 8g protein, 5g fat.

Cooked bacon, slice, 43 calories, 30 from fat, 3g protein, 3g fat.

If you want to add weight, eat calorie dense foods that contain enough protein to help the work you're doing to put on the muscle you want easily, and don't consume too many calories in the process (not generally a big problem for 18 year olds who are working out consistently, and aren't living on junk food). What you eat, within those parameters, isn't especially important (again, assuming the not living on junk food part). The guys who are relying on chicken breasts and peanut butter on everything are just getting there via a different path (mine also eats chicken and PB, fwiw, along with insane amounts of fruit in his "milkshakes").  Chicken's great for lean protein, but good luck eating enough of it to get the calories you'll need to add weight (which is one reason why people who are trying to lose weight choose it, and likely why the guys above listing it are also throwing in the PB).

I would start by keeping a spreadsheet of everything you eat or drink and modify that with the suggestions above.  Add a tab to keep track of your squats and deadlifts - the more muscle you add the more calories you will need. Work the big muscle groups hard. You have a gifted metabolism and I'd avoid any advice on changing anything towards attempting to modify the metabolism to gain weight.  Some people tend to gain fat when overfeeding - this is genetics, so I'd avoid that if at all possible.  Have continued conversations with the college trainers / coaches who made the suggestion and keep them up to date with your spreadsheet - they will see that  you are serious. Metrix shakes are some of the best - tried and prove over many years. If you supplement with vitamins, I would add complex amino acids, they will help you body synthetize all of the additional protein you are eating. If you are supplementing, I would ask your trainer if they approve of the supplements so that you don't fail any drug tests.  Amino acid supplements should be safe as  your entire body is made up of amino acids. No only will the amino acids help with your objective, you will notice that your hair and nail grow faster and are stronger. 

If you look for amino acids, make sure you find one that has many amino acids and not just a single amino acid (Twin labs amino fuel is an example of a supplement that contains many amino acids).  I've used Metrix and Amino fuel in the past and can attest to their actually working for a hard gainer.

jacjacatk posted:

soulslam55 posted:

Stay away from bacon burgers as a second dinner. Your protein intake should match your target weight of you are hitting the gym. 

Peanut butter, per ounce, 165 calories, 116 from fat, 7g protein, 14g fat.

Roasted chicken breast, per ounce, 46 calories, 9 from fat, 9g protein, 1g fat.

80% lean hamburger, per ounce, 76 calories, 44 from fat, 8g protein, 5g fat.

Cooked bacon, slice, 43 calories, 30 from fat, 3g protein, 3g fat.

If you want to add weight, eat calorie dense foods that contain enough protein to help the work you're doing to put on the muscle you want easily, and don't consume too many calories in the process (not generally a big problem for 18 year olds who are working out consistently, and aren't living on junk food). What you eat, within those parameters, isn't especially important (again, assuming the not living on junk food part). The guys who are relying on chicken breasts and peanut butter on everything are just getting there via a different path (mine also eats chicken and PB, fwiw, along with insane amounts of fruit in his "milkshakes").  Chicken's great for lean protein, but good luck eating enough of it to get the calories you'll need to add weight (which is one reason why people who are trying to lose weight choose it, and likely why the guys above listing it are also throwing in the PB).

Nuts (including peanut butter), chicken breast, eggs, whey, soy, whole grains, advocados etc are a better source of needed essential nuitrients and protein than bacon or beef. Also they contain healthier fats.   Chicken helps to build and repair of muscle, that is why consuming this is very healthful in building muscle.  Peanut butter or almond butter is a great way to put on weight needed.

Fruit is sugar and adds more calories than needed.  Fruit should be in moderation.

Its all in what one wants to accomplish. 

soulslam55 posted:

Eating badly does nothing except put on bad weight. Go to 5-6 meals a day (two of those meals can be protein shakes). Stay away from bacon burgers as a second dinner. Your protein intake should match your target weight of you are hitting the gym. 

Consider yourself lucky. It's easier to put on 5-6 lbs. than take off 25! Good luck.

Exactly as above.  One gram of protein for each pound of athlete per day, if working out heavily and trying to maintain weight.  More if trying to bulk up, less if trying to lose.

TPM posted:

Nuts (including peanut butter), chicken breast, eggs, whey, soy, whole grains, advocados etc are a better source of needed essential nuitrients and protein than bacon or beef. Also they contain healthier fats.   Chicken helps to build and repair of muscle, that is why consuming this is very healthful in building muscle.  Peanut butter or almond butter is a great way to put on weight needed.

Fruit is sugar and adds more calories than needed.  Fruit should be in moderation.

Its all in what one wants to accomplish. 

Chicken doesn't have special muscle building properties beyond its protein, it's useful for overweight people who are working out to get in shape because it provides the protein with minimal calories from other sources, so it's good for getting protein without excess calorie intake. In that regard, it might be marginally less ideal for athletes who need both the protein and the calories, but it really doesn't matter that much.

PB's biggest advantages are that it's cheap both per calorie and per gram of protein, it's shelf stable for long periods of time, and it provides the calories and protein without a lot of added carbs, unlike many cheap calorie sources.

Typical raw fruits are around 80 calories a cup, and basically no one is going to be exceeding any reasonable carb limit a day eating as much raw fruit as they want, much less a HS/College athlete who's on 3000+ calorie a day diet.

Anyone eating a reasonably varied diet is going to get all the essential nutrients they need, and most dietary supplements are pretty meh, but whatever floats your boat.

Avoid processed carbs, eat most anything else you want as long as it's reasonably varied, eat enough calories for the weight gain/loss you're targeting, and do whatever work you need to build or maintain the muscle you want.  Everything else is preferences.

Go44dad posted:

soulslam55 posted:

Eating badly does nothing except put on bad weight. Go to 5-6 meals a day (two of those meals can be protein shakes). Stay away from bacon burgers as a second dinner. Your protein intake should match your target weight of you are hitting the gym. 

Consider yourself lucky. It's easier to put on 5-6 lbs. than take off 25! Good luck.

Exactly as above.  One gram of protein for each pound of athlete per day, if working out heavily and trying to maintain weight.  More if trying to bulk up, less if trying to lose.

http://bayesianbodybuilding.co...ke-for-bodybuilders/

Also, 1g/lb for a 200lb athlete when consumed in chicken will be ~1000 calories, which may well burn muscle, and definitely isn't going to maintain (much less add) weight.  200g of protein from PB is more like 4700 calories, which is probably excessive either way.

Interesting topic.  As a side question, any suggestions for "healthy" snacks for a growing boy?   My son is CONSTANTLY hungry, or so he says.  I've eliminated all the donuts, cupcakes, chocolate, and sodas in the house.  I've been trying to find some foods that he has no limits on, as in "you can eat as much of XXX as you want when you are hungry in between meals".  So far I've just focused on low sugar items such as gold fish, low sodium pretzels, packets of nuts and low calorie/sugar drinks ...any other thoughts?

P.S. He's 13, 5'10, and 159#'s.

we make our own "trail mix". fantastic warm

CaCO3Girl posted:

Interesting topic.  As a side question, any suggestions for "healthy" snacks for a growing boy?   My son is CONSTANTLY hungry, or so he says.  I've eliminated all the donuts, cupcakes, chocolate, and sodas in the house.  I've been trying to find some foods that he has no limits on, as in "you can eat as much of XXX as you want when you are hungry in between meals".  So far I've just focused on low sugar items such as gold fish, low sodium pretzels, packets of nuts and low calorie/sugar drinks ...any other thoughts?

P.S. He's 13, 5'10, and 159#'s.

My guess without looking it up is that any cracker/bread based snack food is going to be fairly bad (goldfish and pretzels included) because they tend to just be empty carbs (check the labeling or google).

I don't think you can really go wrong with fresh fruit, the bulk involved pretty much prevents any real sugar-overload issues (dried fruit you'd have to be a little more careful with).  Nuts are likely also solid (avoid anything with added sugar, though), even though they're high in calories they should be filling and include plenty of other necessary nutrients.  Jerky isn't bad, but it's expensive.  Mine eats salsa a lot (home made, primarily, to avoid the added sugar), which is just OK given the chips it's eaten with.

Realistically, with a teen male athletic metabolism, it's unlikely you're going to run into real problems if you're keeping raw/added sugar (in the form of soda, donuts, candy and the like) to a minimum, and just letting them eat whatever else they want.  Got lucky with mine, as he decided he didn't like soda and most fruit juices at 8 or 9, so those aren't an issue for him.

CaCO3Girl posted:

Interesting topic.  As a side question, any suggestions for "healthy" snacks for a growing boy?   My son is CONSTANTLY hungry, or so he says.  I've eliminated all the donuts, cupcakes, chocolate, and sodas in the house.  I've been trying to find some foods that he has no limits on, as in "you can eat as much of XXX as you want when you are hungry in between meals".  So far I've just focused on low sugar items such as gold fish, low sodium pretzels, packets of nuts and low calorie/sugar drinks ...any other thoughts?

P.S. He's 13, 5'10, and 159#'s.

I agree with Jac... minimize the goldfish, pretzels, and other processed carbs. Try peanut butter on celery or carrots or any other fruit/veg that he likes (assuming he likes one). Some PB is better than others when it comes to the sugar.

Agree with the above.

Preteens and young teens, unless they have a weight problem, dont have to limit their calories  and do not need to be on special diets.  Just limit the junk stuff, but they need the carbohydrates, as much as they need protein.  Keeping the  high sugary empty calorie stuff down to a minimum is just a good practice for later in life.