Game speed to first

Home to first may be the most important measurement of a hitter. After contact, the faster a batter gets to first, the more the defense has to hurry their throw. This can cause errant throws and upset the defensive scheme.

Further, the faster a batter can get to first the greater the potential infield singles and higher average.

Some fast runners have a hard time finishing their swing and getting out of the box.

A good coach will seek every possible edge to win games or at the least , stay competitive.

4.1 from the right side is a very good time. I recall Curt Flood had the fastest time from home to first as a lefty at 3.3. In contrast, Ed Kranepool was listed at 14 seconds from home to first.

Using home to first should only be timed in a game situation. I think that 4.1 (which is MLB speed) will come down to reality after finishing the swing. That's why the 60 is used, it's more controlled. I never could figure out why a 30 yard isn't used to simulate 90 foot bases.

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Ever wonder why Pro Scouts and College Coaches carry a stopwatch when watching kids play?

It isn't in hopes that they'll get to time a 60 yard dash...

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Just to clarify, the HS coaches start the stopwatch on contact with the ball, not after the swing when he starts running.

And from my eye, this 4.1 kid is as fast as any of the players I've seen in college. He has an incredible initial burst, plus he is fast.

blprkfrnks,

If he is running a legitimate 4.1 from the right side he is very fast. Yes as fast as most anyonme in college except for a select few. Also faster than most all of the major leaguers.

The biggest problem with h-1 times is that some run faster or slower times depending on their swing and what type of ball they just hit. Either way 4.1 is very fast.

Academy ....your on the money, the thing is a coach times you in a practice situation, whereas a scout gets you in the real world. A kid in practice will shorten his follow through and jump the start. You don't see H to 1st at showcases.

IMO average hs kid is around 4.5 to 4.7

I read a scouting handout that said MLB right handed batters are 4.3 and leftys are 4,2 on average

I have heard rumors that Mantle did a low 3 pt something from the left side before all his serious knee probs

Mickey Mantle was known as the fastest man to first base. His career was fraught with injury. Beginning in high school he accumulated both acute and chronic injuries to bones and cartilage in his legs. After being kicked in the shin in a high school football game, Mantle's leg soon became infected with osteomyelitis, a crippling disease that would have been incurable just a few years earlier. A midnight drive to Tulsa, Oklahoma, enabled Mantle to be treated with newly available penicillin, saving his leg from amputation. Applying thick wraps to both of his knees became a pre-game ritual, and by the end of his career, simply swinging a bat caused him to fall to one knee in pain. Baseball scholars often ponder "what if" he had not been injured, and he was able to lead a healthy career.

As a 19-year-old rookie in his first World Series, Mantle tore the cartilage in his right knee on a pop fly by Willie Mays while playing right field. Joe DiMaggio, in the last year of his career, was playing center field. Mays' pop-up was hit to deep right center, and as both Mantle and DiMaggio converged to make the catch, DiMaggio called for it at the last second, causing Mantle to suddenly stop short as his cleats caught a drainage cover in the outfield grass. His knee twisted awkwardly and he instantly fell. Witnesses say it looked "like he had been shot." He was carried off the field on a stretcher and spent the rest of the World Series watching from the hospital.

During the 1957 World Series, Milwaukee Braves second baseman Red Schoendienst fell on Mantle's left shoulder in a play at the bag. Over the next decade, Mantle would experience increasing difficulty hitting or throwing from his left side. This injury, more than anything, would hasten his retirement.

I wonder how far a healthy Mantle on roids would've hit a ball with a composite bat.

Quincy -- thanks for the great info. And indeed Mantle was renown for his home-to-first speed.

You stated in your last paragraph that "... Mantle would experience increasing difficulty hitting or throwing from his left side."

Just a quick clarification for our younger viewers -- Mantle was a switch hitter who threw right-handed.

He was truly one of a kind. Brings back great memories of that era.

I thought of a way to test some of the things said here since I have some home-to-first times from my son in a couple of clinical, hand-timed settings. But, I also have some videos of him in actual game situations where I could stop the video frame-by-frame and get the bat-ball contact start time and the time he landed on first. I guess there isn't enough data to be statistically accurate, but it may be worth something to someone. He is a right handed batter.

First, he was hand-timed at a NE D2 College field in late May, conditions a little soft but not too bad, at a tryout and the time was 4.36.

The videos where I could do the frame-by-frame thing were a couple of months later in August at the Dodgers Spring Training facility in Florida. The times were 4.18 (ROE from left side ground ball), 4.21 (Triple to left center wall, so he was rounding the bag), 4.39 (Groundout to left side), and 4.32 (IF single from ground ball in the hole).

Lastly, he was hand timed by the HS coach indoors the following March and was consistently 3.9 - 4.1. I was throwing the pitches (not doing the timing). I don't remember him being one of the route jumpers, but I am sure that it was an advantage knowing the only goal was to make contact and get to first. Plus, the track was perfect for speed (no slipping in soft spots, etc.).

So, at least in his case, the indoor times seem about .2 seconds fast but the clinical outdoor time wasn't much different than the actual game conditions. It probably depends on how much the batter is cheating during the clinical setting. From my experience doing this, it is kind of obvious which ones are and which ones aren't by how the body/hips turn on the swing.

rwulf,

I don't think we have ever recorded a 3.9 from the right side. That is a plus MLB runner from the left side. Yes, we actually do time h-1 at every showcase, both on the final BP swing and again in the games (if they happen to run to 1B). It's very obvious if they are changing their swing. However some swings are more condusive to running a faster h-1.

That 4.21 on an extra base hit is also amazing. Obviously he is a plus runner. What does he run the 60 in?

I don't put much stock in the indoor 3.9 times he got, to be honest. They were hand-timed and the conditions were super-ideal. He is relatively fast, though. I think the 4.2 to 4.3 times are fairly typical and he always "reached on error" on a regular basis in high school because of rushed throws and such. It isn't happening so much in college because the defenses obviously are better. If I am thinking correctly, his swing is condusive to a fast H-1, I think, and helps him get out of the box quickly.

His 60 times have been good but not outstanding as he has never learned to start well in them. Typically, he times out 7.2 to 7.3 in the "outfield grass". The fastest ones I have seen him run (all hand-timed) were 6.9.

Here are some of the better times in the Saladino Tournament in Tampa this year. All times 'in game' courtesy of prospectwire.com

Reggie Williams... 2009... OF.... 6'4..... 190... Brooks-Debartolo..... 4.05
Aaron Fludd....... 2009... SS.... 5'10.... 160... Brooks-Debartolo... .. 4.11
JD Williams........ 2010... 2B..... 6'1..... 180... Brooks-Debartolo..... 4.14
Hank McCloud..... 2010... OF.... 5'10.... 175... Tampa Catholic...... 4.15
TJ Mouse........... 2010... 2B.... 5'10.... 180... Chamberlain...... .... 4.21
Jorden Morrell..... 2011... SS.... 5'7..... 132... Middleton............... 4.25
Mike Ramsey....... 2010... OF.... 5'10.... 160... Spoto................... 4.35
PJ Leto.............. 2010... INF... 5'10.... 165... Leto..................... 4.35
Demetrius Taylor.. 2011... OF.... 6'2..... 190... Middleton............... 4.39
Richie Martin....... 2012... INF... 5'8..... 160... Bloomingdale............ 4.39
Sal Giardina........ 2010... C...... 6'1..... 170... Bloomingdale............ 4.42
Zack Powers....... 2010... SS.... 6'3..... 190... Armwood................. 4.49
Austin Wilson..... 2012... OF.... 5'10.... 140..... Bloomingdale............ 4.49
Josh Spano......... 2011... 3B.... 6'2..... 185... Armwood................. 4.56
PJ Lally.............. 2009... 3B..... 5'9..... 170... Gaither................... 4.59
Cedric Walker...... 2011... OF.... 5'7..... 125... Spoto..................... 4.59
Javier Reynoso..... 2011... LHP... 5'10.... 180... Brooks-Debartolo..... 4.60
Mike Cawthon...... 2010... RHP... 5'10.... 180... Spoto.................... 4.61
Andrew Thomas.....2010... RHP... 6'2..... 193... Spoto.................... 4.75
Matt Ganci........... 2011... C..... 5'9..... 170... Wesley Chapel............ 4.79
Jake Crochunis....... 2010... INF... 6'2... 170... Bloomingdale................ 4.87
Ryan Koepp........... 2010... 1B.... 6'2..... 195... Spoto.................... 4.88