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I'm a catcher and I'm not at all controversial when it comes to umpires, but thats only because I don't want to say anything that will potentially hurt my pitcher.

Professional catchers have much more leeway because the umpires have to be professional and cannot hurt a pitcher like an amateur level umpire.

So lets say I get a pitch right on the black, right where I set up, and I don't get the call, what would be the appropriate reaction- just to let him know that I thought there was know way that wasn't a strike. Obviously, there's the never turn around to face him rule, but what can be said?

All opinions welcome, I know each umpire is different. Thanks.
Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is just a hole in Arizona. -George F. Will
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Im going to agree with EH here....if this is the rare occasion, then by all means let it go....or ASK...."That a little out blue?"....

I have never had a problem working with a catcher....as long as he is attempting to work with me...I often will follow up that pitch with a quiet comment like "bring him in a bit..thats too far out for me...."

Communicate, communicate, communicate....you cant go wrong if you build a open relationship with the umpire.

if you are looking for ways to show your disgust or argue pitches in a way that wont get you tossed, I cant help you...
Don't go asking "where was that at, blue?". And like you know never turn around during the at bat ( you can stand up and chat after a play or K between hitters, but quietly).

Only talk about strike zone AFTER a number of borderline strikes go the other way; you're never going to get 100% of the calls. Are getting calls on one side versus the other? Knowing how the ump sets up can help you also in how you receive the ball. Often you can say "blue, some of these pitches look pretty good up here....what am I doing wrong"; take the blame on yourself and how you are recieving the ball instead of putting any blame on the blue. Most will tell you what they want and sometimes give you another inch or so when you show you're working with them.

Don't just talk balls/strikes with the ump...there is a whole lot more that goes on in a ballgame such as nice plays, hustle plays or hard hit balls; comment on these also. If you only speak to an ump to whine or complain you'll hit a dead end fast.

Also tell the blue to ignore your fans because they're clueless and to let you handle "my space cadet pitcher" who might be letting his frustration show. Your fans may be right and the pitcher justified but all they will do is make your job of working with the ump harder.

Just remember, that pitch a couple inches off the plate you want as a strike for your pitcher....you also will have to hit it when you are at bat.
quote:
Originally posted by Catch43:

Professional catchers have much more leeway because the umpires have to be professional and cannot hurt a pitcher like an amateur level umpire.


Are you suggesting that professional catchers can act more unprofessionally and take advantage of the umpire?

Believe me, if a professional catcher crosses the line, he is dealt with by professional umpires in ways amateur umpires can only dream of.
Catch43, I would try holding the "frame" of the pitch just a split second longer. Nothing ridiculous, just that extra half-second that says "it's RIGHT HERE" without saying anything.

If it really was a strike, the umpire will see it and know it (usually he just called it too quickly and didn't look it all the way in), and he'll know that you know it too.

This is, of course, assuming that it's a no-doubter on the corner, and not something a few inches off that you're just wanting to sell as a strike. Your OP makes it seem like a no-doubter.

I agree with the above posts that if it's a rare miss by the umpire, let it go.
I wouldn't hold the pitch, that is as visually obvious as turning around. The best way to get the border pitches is to tell your pitcher to bring it in and then ask the PU if it was wide. If the manager asks you, tell it was wide and then ask the PU. If you help him then he is inclined to help you. Also make sure you are catching out away from your body. If you catch it too deep, it changes his perspective.
Work out something non-verbal with your coach to talk about pitch location. Especially the close ones. Nothing looks worse and potentially upsets an umpire quicker than a coach yelling out "Hey Johnny - where was that pitch?" Plus it puts you in a bad spot. You want to tell your coach you feel the ump missed it but on the other hand there's no point in showing up the ump.

Make eye contact with the coach like you would be if getting signs from the dugout and subtley touch your mask to tell the coach you feel the ump missed it or throwing hand on top of thigh to show it was missed outside or put throwing hand between legs to show it missed inside.
I'm not looking to show the ump off in any way. I'm the last guy to do that.

But I saw this clip on MLB Network of the Umpire-catcher relationship, and it definitely seemed different than the amateur level. I mean, I only call an umpire "sir", or "blue." I think it was Dave Valle who said he always adressed umpires by their first name, and he said he would never look back, but if he caught one on the corner and didn't get the, he would say out loud, while throwing the ball back, "Hey John, I need that call." And other comments like that.

Its not that professional catchers try to take advantage of umpires, but I think their relationship is more advanced and open.

About the title of the thread, it's not that I want to get my point across, but that maybe I'd get more calls- if professional catchers have a way of communicating and working with the umpire, I want to know it. I want to know how to get more of the close calls and help my pitcher- it has nothing to do with the quality of the umpire (understandably, everyone makes bad calls and there are bad blues out there).
quote:
Originally posted by Catch43:

About the title of the thread, it's not that I want to get my point across, but that maybe I'd get more calls- if professional catchers have a way of communicating and working with the umpire, I want to know it. I want to know how to get more of the close calls and help my pitcher- it has nothing to do with the quality of the umpire (understandably, everyone makes bad calls and there are bad blues out there).

Catch - An umpire who "gave you more calls" solely because of your relationship with him wouldn't be a very good umpire. Believe me - umpires WANT to call strikes. You can help them do that by: 1) Giving them a good look at the pitch (which translates into not blocking the ump's view); and 2) making the close pitch look like a strike, not only to the ump, but to everyone else.

The way to make a close pitch look like a strike is to not make it look like a ball. Here are some things that make pitches look like balls:

1) Not catching the pitch

2) Pulling the pitch into the zone (boy do we hate that). Pulling the pitch is EASILY seen by everyone, especially the umpire. It will cost you strikes. If we ring that pitch up, it makes it look like you fooled us into calling a strike. The best way to get that borderline pitch is to stick it and leave it right where it is (but not for too long).

3) Setting up too far back and making the pitch look lower than it is. Catch the low pitch with your arm out and thumb down and you have a much better shot at getting the call just below the kneecap.

Now, a word about the catcher/umpire relationship. I've already said that an umpire who "gives more calls" (i.e., changes his strike zone) based on this relationship is not a good umpire. That said, having the umpire like you will certainly not hurt you in the baseball game.

Here are some things that will endear you to the umpire:

1) Do your best to block EVERYTHING. If we have complete confidence in your ability to block the ball, it helps us stay locked in and improves our ability to focus and track the pitch (because we aren't concerned about getting drilled). When you smother a ball in the dirt with no one on, we REALLY appreciate that.

2) Count warm-up pitches and throw it down without being told. It's a small thing, but it's appreciated.

3) When your coach asks you "Where was that pitch?" (Grrrrr), tell him it was a little in or a little down, or whatever. Please don't say "I don't know." That makes our blood boil, even if we know we missed it. If you think we are doing a lousy job, tell your coach in the dugout without making a public display.

4) When you don't get a call (and you know you didn't deserve it) give us credit for getting it right. Telling the pitcher "bring that up a little" or "good miss" does just that.

Finally, you have a right to expect quality umpiring at the higher levels, and you are allowed to disagree with a call. We miss pitches sometimes, and we have good games and not-so-good games (hopefully infrequently for the latter). You already know not to turn around and get in our face. That is not the way to disagree. Sticking the pitch and holding it there is like saying "Come on Blue - that pitch is a strike. You've got to ring that one up." Just don't overdo it. Throw it back to the pitcher when you don't get the call.

Another way is to tell the pitcher "good pitch" or "put it there again." That is like saying "Bear down Blue - you missed that one." When you disagree like that, at least for me, it causes me to work harder to call strikes, and that is exactly what you want me to do.

Sorry to be so long-winded.
Last edited by dash_riprock
One other thing that I believe umps like (although I'm not an ump)...this is just an understood bit of respect to give to an umpire...if the ump gets hit by a pitch, please go talk to the pitcher. Tell him a joke, ask him a stupid question, point out the blonde by the visitors dugout, but just go out there quickly to give the ump a second to get himself together. Do you ever notice how when you get hit, the ump always casually takes the time the brush off home plate? It's amazing how often I have to tell my catcher to go talk to the pitcher after the ump gets hit. Maybe it's not a big deal, but it's a big deal to me.
quote:
Originally posted by mstcks:
I'm not a catcher, but those are some very good posts. I play 1st so I talk to the field umpire, and sometimes the plate umpire to ask the count. I believe addressing the umpire as "sir" is only natural to me now and this shows respect to them as the superior on the field. Just my take.


I always introduce myself to the catcher using my first name.

Players and coaches are free to call me by my first name, last name, ump, Mr.Umpire...just about anything but "blue". I am not a color.
What my players have done in the past when they thought a pitch was a strike on the outside or inside corner was just simply lean up to the plate and wipe off the corner where the pitch was. Don't say a word and just clean the corner off with your hand after you throw the ball back to the pitcher. None of my pitchers or catchers ever had a problem when they did that and it gets your point across that you (the catcher) thought that pitch was a strike.
quote:
Originally posted by Coach From The Southeast:
quote:
Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
If one of my catchers dusted off the plate for the ump he could work in the concession stand the rest of the game... it would only be a matter of who sent him there; me or the ump.

Like I said, we never had a problem.


You will.

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