Getting recruited outta JUCO

Things may be different these days, my son was playing D1 juco in 15’-16’ and pre COVID.

Freshman year nobody talked to the players – colleges and pro scouts talk to the HC, but the players were left alone. Juco is a typically 2-year sentence (unless the kid is a super stud) and typically 4-year schools honor that.

If the player is a P5 D1 prospect in juco there will likely be some pro scout interest, this came to my son as a freshman from the HC handing over an envelope with team survey (think new patient medical forms with some unusual addon questions “Were your parent’s college or professional athletes?”

Year 2 in juco there seemed to be a lot of direct college contact with the higher profile players, lower profile players seemed to be directed into pet colleges where the juco HC had a relationship. I don’t think there’s another approach beyond playing hard, summer ball and not pissing the juco head coach off…

I’m certainly interested in responses to this question, as my son is headed to a FL D1 JUCO this fall.

@JucoDad posted:

Things may be different these days, my son was playing D1 juco in 15’-16’ and pre COVID.

Freshman year nobody talked to the players – colleges and pro scouts talk to the HC, but the players were left alone. Juco is a typically 2-year sentence (unless the kid is a super stud) and typically 4-year schools honor that.

If the player is a P5 D1 prospect in juco there will likely be some pro scout interest, this came to my son as a freshman from the HC handing over an envelope with team survey (think new patient medical forms with some unusual addon questions “Were your parent’s college or professional athletes?”

Year 2 in juco there seemed to be a lot of direct college contact with the higher profile players, lower profile players seemed to be directed into pet colleges where the juco HC had a relationship. I don’t think there’s another approach beyond playing hard, summer ball and not pissing the juco head coach off…

I should add, that juco is like 2 years of bootcamp in that you need to embrace the suck, but my son loved it! I think it a great option if baseball is a high priority and/or your kids trying to avoid huge college loans.

JuCo is a two year commitment. When a player (or a parent) starts promoting themselves to 4 year schools during their freshman year the JuCo coaches get really pissed off. They interpret those actions as a kid wanting to leave after one year, not appreciating what the JuCo has done for him, and other negative connotations. It’s a quick way to the doghouse. IMO you and your son should resist the urge to start “selling” to 4 year schools. If your son does contact a 4 year school, guess where the first phone call will be immediately afterwards. It will be from the 4 year school to your JuCo HC and it will go something like this:    

  4 yr: we got a text from Joe & he wants to come play for us.                                                     JuCo HC: no, that’s not right. he is happy here and wants to come back so if you keep talking to him you won’t get anymore players from me.
  Then Joe will get a text from the JuCo HC that says, “heard you have been contacting 4 yr schools. Meet me at the field at 5 am in workout gear for a special practice”. Coaches talk more than people think. So you need to be careful.

If your son is having a good year be patient. Have him talk to his JuCo coaches about helping him move on. His JuCo coaches can do the most to help him. They can also do the most to hurt him so he needs to stay in good graces. Outside of the JuCo season Summer Leagues are a good opportunity to be seen and something may develop from that. You never know who is at those games, flashy or not.

@adbono are different JUCOs known for getting their players to 4 years schools in different years? For example there is a JUCO close by that really promote their players in their first year. Doesn't seem like that's the norm.

Not sure how much this applies to other areas of the country, but i heard that some of the jucos in the SF bay area are looking to move their kids after one year of play.  a lot of these guys are covid freshmen/grayshirts who are two or even three years removed from hs but this is their first year of using eligibility (they were given the option of "opting out" last year and not playing spring season when the schedule was truncated.  now, the coaches want to move the kids along and make room on their rosters for the 22s that are incoming

In the case of my son, and D1 NJCAA  schools around here, @adbono is 100% correct — JUCO is a 2-year tour. I’m sure there are rare exceptions, especially for pitchers, but typically it’s either 2 years of JUCO or 1 and done with baseball.

@nycdad posted:

@adbono are different JUCOs known for getting their players to 4 years schools in different years? For example there is a JUCO close by that really promote their players in their first year. Doesn't seem like that's the norm.

That’s not the norm at all - especially in this part of the country.

To add on to what adbono said, you better embrace JUCO.  If at any point you feel it is beneath you or the coach feels you think you are too good for it, you are going to get called on it quickly.  If you are transferring in to JUCO from a D1, you will almost have a target on your back and anything you do could be seen as "you think you are too good for this place and if you were as good as you think you are, you'd still be at (insert top D1 here)."  That advice is for the players coming into JUCO.

As far as recruiting, I agree that 99% of players are going for two years.  Don't force anything in year 1 and let it happen.  Year 2 is critical and the Fall is when most things happen.  We made a critical mistake this Fall.  In my son's Freshman year it was 2021 so the Fall was 2020 and coaches could not recruit due to Covid.  Nothing happened in the Fall.  We played some games, did some scrimmages.  My son did Driveline in the Summer of 2021 and he needed some rest at the end of the Summer.  We thought he would do like the previous Fall and ramp up slowly but that wasn't the case.  We saw what a real Fall looked like and he wasn't in shape for it.  There is a 6 week recruiting period, I believe it was Sep 15th-Oct 30th but I may be off on that.  First event there were probably 40 coaches  there and it stayed like that all Fall.  His velocity was down and it hurt him.  He still had some interest but not what we expected.  He had good film and stats from last year and he sent that out during the Winter.  Also sent updated video from bullpens.  Once the season started he sent more video.  After the first weekend of the NCAA season, things picked up dramatically.  I guess teams find out that they didn't have what they thought they had.  Things moved quickly and that's where your coach can help.  When he says "you are the 5th school to ask about him today" that moves coaches from the tire kicking phase to the offer phase very fast.  I will say this, don't depend on your coach to do all of the work for you.  Send video, express interest just like you did in high school and have a plan.  Talk to your coach about where you are and get advice from him.  As much as he can help you, he can also guide you away from some bad landing spots.   

@adbono posted:

Outside of the JuCo season Summer Leagues are a good opportunity to be seen and something may develop from that. You never know who is at those games, flashy or not.

100% agree. Summer leagues are coached by college coaches, at least a vast majority of the summer leagues are. The coaching community is relatively tight, so even if games aren’t “scouted“ the summer league coach, and/or opposing coaches, can be a connection to a 4 year.

Bottom line is, if a kid can hit there’s a spot for him somewhere, it’s just a matter of finding the right level and fit

@Tug Tide posted:

I’m certainly interested in responses to this question, as my son is headed to a FL D1 JUCO this fall.

I see you live in FL so I am sure you know about how great the Juco situation is here.  Not easy though,  because there is so much instate talent.  Many D1 coaches have relationships with specific  JUCO programs.

If you, or maybe you have, check out the mid D1 rosters in FL as well as the D2 rosters, they are filled with many ex FL Juco players who are recruited to out of state D1 programs as well.

One of the largest Juco showcases is held in Auburndale and scouts are literally everywhere.

I do not know  if  covid has played a big part in overcrowding but I could inquire.

PM if you have any questions.

@TPM posted:

I see you live in FL so I am sure you know about how great the Juco situation is here.  Not easy though,  because there is so much instate talent.  Many D1 coaches have relationships with specific  JUCO programs.

If you, or maybe you have, check out the mid D1 rosters in FL as well as the D2 rosters, they are filled with many ex FL Juco players who are recruited to out of state D1 programs.

One of the largest Juco showcases is held in Auburndale and scouts are literally everywhere.

I do not know  if  covid has played a big part in overcrowding but I could inquire.

PM if you have any questions.

Covid has played  a big part in overcrowding at JUCO's.  The other issue is that D1's have to go back to 35 man rosters next year.  This impacts the JUCO recruiting as the school is already having to cut 5 players and may not have room next year.  From what I can tell the position players are getting hurt more than pitchers.   

The primary message is correct here... JC is most often a 2 yr gig.  There are exceptions but most often, those players know going in that they are the exception.  And, yes, there are some schools that are more OK with 1 yr and done but they, too, are the exception.

And when you do go into year two, really do your research.  There are usually specific events targeted toward being recruited to 4 yr schools but those events are very few.  JC coaches typically have a pipeline to 4 yr programs but that pipeline is very narrow - may or may not align with the schools you may want to target.  JC coaches tend to want you to focus on the season until it is over, leaving a very short window to find your next school.  JC is a great proving ground but just because you perform doesn't mean it will be easy to find the RIGHT next move.

As usual, Cabbage is dead on. JuCo coaches tend to have ties to some 4 year schools that are nearby and that’s about it. Those schools may or may not be the right fit. A lot of JuCos now have a scout day event on their campus and they attend JuCo Showcase Tournaments on a campus of a regional 4 year school. In fact, that is standard practice at competitive JuCo programs. Those events help with moving on to the next destination. Another thing that helps is playing for a really good team.  At regional tourneys and at the JuCo World Series 4 year schools are heavy in attendance looking for players. As a result of playing in the JuCo World Series my son had a number of D1 schools that wanted him but he had no interest in playing in colder climates. But the initial call almost always went to his JuCo HC so it’s important to keep that relationship positive.

@cabbagedad posted:

...There are usually specific events targeted toward being recruited to 4 yr schools but those events are very few.  JC coaches typically have a pipeline to 4 yr programs but that pipeline is very narrow - may or may not align with the schools you may want to target.  JC coaches tend to want you to focus on the season until it is over, leaving a very short window to find your next school.  JC is a great proving ground but just because you perform doesn't mean it will be easy to find the RIGHT next move.

And

@adbono posted:

... JuCo coaches tend to have ties to some 4 year schools that are nearby and that’s about it. Those schools may or may not be the right fit. A lot of JuCos now have a scout day event on their campus and they attend JuCo Showcase Tournaments on a campus of a regional 4 year school. In fact, that is standard practice at competitive JuCo programs.

OK, this squares up with what I saw in the fall... there were a couple games with very heavy scouting presence, and the upperclass guys went to a tournament at Dallas Baptist that was likely the showcase type event you're talking about @adbono. Or the actual event.

And he's 100% bought in with his coach, not trying to get around doing a second year.

But, hypothetical, let's say next fall the kid wants to go to another area of the country (California, PNW, NE) after two years at JUCO. If he attracts interest, his coach will get called (current coach likely won't have a personal connection to the prospective coach), and his stats are posted. Does video play a role for the position player? Camps? How would he attract interest? Is it like HS at all, with letters/video outreach?

It feels a bit like the message is to keep your head down, contribute, perform, and wait to be noticed. It's the "wait to be noticed" aspect that I'm wary of.

Long 415;

where will your son play this summer? There are several strong College Summer Leagues in California, Pacific NW.

Bob

@Consultant posted:

Long 415;

where will your son play this summer? There are several strong College Summer Leagues in California, Pacific NW.

Bob

He'll be playing near home; Central Texas. Going outside the region is just hypothetical at this point.

@Long415 posted:

And

OK, this squares up with what I saw in the fall... there were a couple games with very heavy scouting presence, and the upperclass guys went to a tournament at Dallas Baptist that was likely the showcase type event you're talking about @adbono. Or the actual event.

And he's 100% bought in with his coach, not trying to get around doing a second year.

But, hypothetical, let's say next fall the kid wants to go to another area of the country (California, PNW, NE) after two years at JUCO. If he attracts interest, his coach will get called (current coach likely won't have a personal connection to the prospective coach), and his stats are posted. Does video play a role for the position player? Camps? How would he attract interest? Is it like HS at all, with letters/video outreach?

It feels a bit like the message is to keep your head down, contribute, perform, and wait to be noticed. It's the "wait to be noticed" aspect that I'm wary of.

Mine is going across the country next year. We had a showcase vs Iowa Western and the PC saw him pitch. That started the relationship.  What helped was expressing interest, sending video and constant communication between both parties.  Most kids are going to stay close to home. There are a lot of colleges between us and them.  Letting your current coach know that distance doesn’t matter and then also letting the prospective teams know is important.  

@Long415, if your son has a particular interest in going to another region of the US after playing JuCo ball in Texas that will probably require some significant effort on your part. Emails, video, etc would be appropriate at that point. And as much as I hate to say it, so would Twitter and other social media platforms that help with exposure. But the best endorsement would be for his JuCo coach to call his schools of interest for him - as long as they are realistic targets.  I suspect that there is a specific reason for your question and if you will share details in a PM I will respond accordingly.

Agree with Adbono.  2 year deal many times even with pro scouts, unless we are talking top rounds.  They will not be happy if their guys are drafted early and will always tell pro scouts that the second year will be good for them to get more acclimated.  But unless the juco coach pushes the player on he will want him for both years.  Very rarely, but I have seen a juco coach push a kid on to a 4 year school and that is normally to get notoriety to his program that we got so and so to a P5 top 10 school even if they were not the reason for the progress.

Let's not forget this is about school. I don't remember the specifics but I know that here in FL, 4 year programs want you to have enough credits to transfer, and do so with an AA degree.

Great conversation.

Outgoing Players shows the reasons why a player is not on the current roster with their graduation class from the previous season

• Drafted by MLB
• Transferred to 4 yr
• Transferred to 2 yr

Below is an example of the player attrition for Iowa Western

Navarro

Central Florida

IF you are at the "right" JUCO, you will spend 2 years learning to play the right way.  You SHOULD not have to go do the recruiting work for yourself.  Be patient.  If the Coach at your JUCO is reputable, he can make a phone call or two and tell other Coaches about your son, if they are ready.  Every JUCO program wants the Twitter glory of getting their guys recruited to P5 schools.  If you go it alone and start advertising yourself, you will be in for a rude awakening. 

The JUCO experience will tell you if you can play at the next level.  It will humble even the most talented.   JUCO Coaches are not going to stick their neck out for dudes that don't perform both, on the field and in the classroom.  4 Year programs EXPECT all-around performance from guys with experience. 

The perception that the JUCO route will garner you immediate playing time is generally false.  DI JUCO in the South is a superior brand of baseball.  You will see 90+ arms all weekend and guys that will make you pay if you cannot locate that 90+.  If you are not an everyday guy at your JUCO, you are probably not ready to move on.  Give it time. Get your gen ed courses done at a reduced expense and learn to grind against real competition.  And last but not least, make sure you fully understand the transfer requirements for course work!!  If you are not careful you will end up at an NAIA with no options to go elsewhere. 

@2019 sdnt1st posted:

IF you are at the "right" JUCO, you will spend 2 years learning to play the right way.  You SHOULD not have to go do the recruiting work for yourself.  Be patient.  If the Coach at your JUCO is reputable, he can make a phone call or two and tell other Coaches about your son, if they are ready.  Every JUCO program wants the Twitter glory of getting their guys recruited to P5 schools.  If you go it alone and start advertising yourself, you will be in for a rude awakening.

The JUCO experience will tell you if you can play at the next level.  It will humble even the most talented.   JUCO Coaches are not going to stick their neck out for dudes that don't perform both, on the field and in the classroom.  4 Year programs EXPECT all-around performance from guys with experience.

The perception that the JUCO route will garner you immediate playing time is generally false.  DI JUCO in the South is a superior brand of baseball.  You will see 90+ arms all weekend and guys that will make you pay if you cannot locate that 90+.  If you are not an everyday guy at your JUCO, you are probably not ready to move on.  Give it time. Get your gen ed courses done at a reduced expense and learn to grind against real competition.  And last but not least, make sure you fully understand the transfer requirements for course work!!  If you are not careful you will end up at an NAIA with no options to go elsewhere.

This is a great post from someone that understood the assignment. Every word is spot on. Kudos to you, sir!

Adbono;

did you notice the San Jac roster. Amazing # of transfers from Division 1 schools. When you are at the Tournament maybe track the average years of College experience for each team and average age of the players.

https://www.sanjac.edu/baseball/2022/roster

Bob

@Consultant posted:

Adbono;

did you notice the San Jac roster. Amazing # of transfers from Division 1 schools. When you are at the Tournament maybe track the average years of College experience for each team and average age of the players.

https://www.sanjac.edu/baseball/2022/roster

Bob

Unfortunately I won’t be in Grand Junction this year. I will follow from home tho. Your observations about the San Jac roster are on target. The San Jac roster always has some “interesting” twists. I will leave it at that. Not among my favorite programs and that sentiment goes all the way back to 1975 when I played against them. Bragg Stockton was their coach back then. Very successful on the field and not well liked. Similar to Cliff Gustafson.

@Consultant posted:

Adbono;

did you notice the San Jac roster. Amazing # of transfers from Division 1 schools. When you are at the Tournament maybe track the average years of College experience for each team and average age of the players.

https://www.sanjac.edu/baseball/2022/roster

Bob

The challenge is most JUCOs don't record "Transfer Ins" info.

Note, from a traceability perspective, a combination of the transfer portal and fall rosters must be used to fill in the blanks.

Note, ~233 of 301 d1 programs published fall rosters

Once we complete our 4 yr project, we might be able to fill in the "Transfer In" Gap

Here is the San Jacinto "Transfer In"

Here was their 2022 incoming players

Total Incoming = Recruited + 4yr Transfers + 2 yr Transfer

@2019 sdnt1st posted:

IF you are at the "right" JUCO, you will spend 2 years learning to play the right way.  You SHOULD not have to go do the recruiting work for yourself.  Be patient.  If the Coach at your JUCO is reputable, he can make a phone call or two and tell other Coaches about your son, if they are ready.  Every JUCO program wants the Twitter glory of getting their guys recruited to P5 schools.  If you go it alone and start advertising yourself, you will be in for a rude awakening.

The JUCO experience will tell you if you can play at the next level.  It will humble even the most talented.   JUCO Coaches are not going to stick their neck out for dudes that don't perform both, on the field and in the classroom.  4 Year programs EXPECT all-around performance from guys with experience.

The perception that the JUCO route will garner you immediate playing time is generally false.  DI JUCO in the South is a superior brand of baseball.  You will see 90+ arms all weekend and guys that will make you pay if you cannot locate that 90+.  If you are not an everyday guy at your JUCO, you are probably not ready to move on.  Give it time. Get your gen ed courses done at a reduced expense and learn to grind against real competition.  And last but not least, make sure you fully understand the transfer requirements for course work!!  If you are not careful you will end up at an NAIA with no options to go elsewhere.

Echoing @adbono comments, this is spot on and very eloquently written. I'd add, if your son is going the JUCO route and wants maximum transfer flexibility then map out the requirements to get an AA by the summer after his sophomore year. As for playing time, my son only pitched 11 innings as Freshman, led the Nation in appearances as a sophomore and was the Friday night starter at Arkansas as a junior. JUCO ball is highly visible and ballplayers will get opportunities relative to their skillset.  

@Consultant posted:

Adbono;

did you notice the San Jac roster. Amazing # of transfers from Division 1 schools. When you are at the Tournament maybe track the average years of College experience for each team and average age of the players.

https://www.sanjac.edu/baseball/2022/roster

Bob

San Jac and McLennan are not typical JUCO's as they get the high profile draft prospects and D1 transfers.