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In the game tonight there was a play at second base where I did not understand the ruling.

Runners on First and Second. Line drive to short. Shortstop leaps for the ball but is only able to knock it down. Runner on second retreats to second. The shortstop throws the ball to the secondbaseman who has one foot on second base who proceeds to tag the runner who originated on second base - and who is now also standing on the bag.

Umpire calls both the runner on first and the runner on second out.

My understanding of the force play rule would suggest that if the fielder tags second base first and then tags the runner the force would be removed and the runner would have to be off the base to be out.

It sure confused the Giants announcers - who went on and on for several innings... but then again, baseball announcers are not known for their rule knowledge.

So what is it that I (and the Giant announcers) are missing?
" There's nothing cooler than a guy who does what we dream of doing, and then enjoys it as much as we dream we would enjoy it. " -- Scott Ostler on Tim Lincecum
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7.08 Any runner is out when—

(e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner must be tagged to be put out. The force is removed as soon as the runner touches the base to which he is forced to advance, and if he overslides or overruns the base, the runner must be tagged to be put out. However, if the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason towards the base he had last occupied, the force play is reinstated, and he can again be put out if the defense tags the base to which he is forced;


The way I see this, the runner who was on second when the play began was forced to move to third irregardless of what happened behind him. I didn't see any comment in the rules on this situation. It seems to be one of those tough situations where there's not much you can do about it.
infidel_08,

You bolded the wrong part. The very next sentence says "However, if a following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner must be tagged to be put out."

So if 08Dad's description of the timing of the play is correct, the umpire erred. And the following link shows that the umpire apparently didn't see the play correctly, and had the Giants manager questioned that aspect of the play (rather than arguing that the ball was droped deliberately), Hallion would have called a conference among the umpires, and perhaps the call would have been changed.

Umpire's comment
Last edited by 3FingeredGlove
Thanks for the link - that really helps to clarify things.

From the video last night, I think the 2B ump was too close to the play - only perhaps 5-6 feet away from the base. Obviously it was a very fast moving situation and he couldn't move back but I don't think he could see both the feet of the fielder and the tag.

Nice to know the big guys can blow one now and then - and that the managers can argue the wrong call!!!

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