Girls and Baseball?

I don't care if you're an orangutan... if you can play, great.

No ... I was not making an association .. I'm not that brave.

Why shouldn't they?

REDBIRD

It is very simple !!!

But I think a twin sister is LIMOM is amongst us so I will go no further

Sorry, I don't think they should if the school offers softball. A girl on the team changes the entire enviorment. Why not play softball where you will have the opportunity to play beyond high school. Yes, there have been college baseball players that are female---but not many. I have a daughter and a son who play--so my opinion does come from personal experience.

fans

I am with you-- can a boy go out for softball??? I think not !!!

It is a one way street !!!

At 14 a girl may be competitive, but she won't be for long. Most of the boys will be 3-6 inches taller in two years. You won't be.

Girls specifically aren't allowed to play HS baseball in many states for the same reason that boys aren't allowed on the softball team.
Can you imagine a male pitcher throwing 85 mph softballs from 43 feet!!!

Would it be fair for a boy to be able to go out for softball? I think if they want to play on a rec team or are good enough to play on a AAU team I wouldnt have a problem with it. But if they are allowed to do that then boys should be allowed to play rec softball or AAU softball shouldnt they? When my son was 12 we played AAU baseball. We played a team out of Raleigh that had a girl on the team. She pitched and played first base. She was big for here age and she was as good as some of the boys on this team. Now this team was not very good. We played them one weekend in the first round of a tournement. Our kids were scared to death. They were laughing with one another about stuff like "Man you better not let her strike you out we will never let you live it down" stuff like that. I had to have a talk with them about showing class and forgetting that she was a girl. Well we scored a ton on her in the first inning but one of our boys did K. He was devastated. I think he still gets it from the boys about this. Seriously I know that there are girls out there that really love baseball and want to compete at the sport. But when HS rolls around I just feel that it is time to separate for a ton of reasons.

YES, their good score keepers, and besides they make the boys work harder, so the boys try to look good in front of them. lol. seriously if they can keep up with them why-not, but just like little johnny has to work, she has to work just as hard NO favoritism for them. 10 laps 100 situp's and so on.

Last March I watched a girl strike out a guy who signed early this last fall. I don't even remember which team won that game. I was shocked.

If that was my kid I would have bought him a tennis racket.

That's what some people really don't want to see.

We had this conversation 6 months ago and Katie (whoever he or she is ) started it then too. I looked for it but it must have been deleted in the house cleaning.

He/She started the thread then never posted on it again.

Me thinks we have another troll.

BigWI ...

We may likely have a troll but I don't remember any previous thread. However, I thought I would provide a point of view from the distaff side of the aisle ...

I do believe that younger females can compete in baseball, but as they mature, and as their male counterparts mature, there comes a point at which even the best female player is not going to be able to compete with the male players.

We women are built differently (just in case you all hadn't noticed it), our muscles and skeletons are different, our centers of gravity are different. There are things that men can do that women can't do (separate from the reproductive functions) because of the difference in our physiques. Unfortunately, "we" have come so far in trying to promote equality of opportunity in this country that we fail to acknowledge the natural differences between men and women, which IMHO go beyond physical capabilities. It is my personal belief that there is more than one reason God created men and women to be different, and I think sometimes we just need to acknowledge that there are some bridges we just can't cross.

JMH(female)O

Surprising fact is that young boys and girls grow at about the same rate. Boys are slightly larger at birth, and maintain that advantage till age 12-13 when girls briefly equal or surpass boys in height. Girls then stop growing, while boys continue for several more years.

It's not rare for the fastest runner in grade or middles schools to be a girl. By senior year in HS, the average male varsity XC runner does a 5K under 18 minutes versus about 21 minutes for a girl.

---
I've only seen two young girls (about age 10) play baseball.They were both pretty bad.

A few girls are playing for DIV III teams. One was drafted (mostly as a stunt) by the pros years ago.

Would you believe there are several teenaged girls that could make (and start) at several HS in the DELMAVA!

Young little girls outlive young little boys.
(So do the older gals!)

Regards
Bear

Bear, is that a comment about the quality of baseball on Delmarva?

I agree with B.D. in Doonesbury years ago, when asked in a huddle if women should be allowed to play football. His answer:

"Just as soon as it can be reliably determined that hell has frozen over; after that, it's fine with me."

I speak in reference to older girls, that have....uh...matured. For Little League, up to age 13/14, no problem. I've seen several 12 year olds deservedly make a baseball all-star team. I haven't seen any 17 year olds that could seriously compete in baseball, for the apparent reasons one of the ladies posted above.

Big WI, You're absolutely correct. There was a thread very similar to this started by Katie.

I believe I posted then, and I will restate my opinion. Baseball is a sport suited for boys (at least at HS and up) and softball is suited for girls (at HS). The two sports are different.

I have a HS son playing Baseball and a HS daughter playing softball. There's no way I would ever encourage her to play baseball. It's not a fit for her or any other girl I know and I know several very good softball players.

Just my opinion!

As with any generality, I agree with the generality that girls should play softball and let the guys play baseball.

Inter-gender squads would put more pressure on an already busy coach who has enough to do as it is.

That being said, one of our local inner-city HS teams only had 8 guys show out for tryouts a couple years back. In order to field a team, they "borrowed" a player from the softball team. She did very well and there were no problems.

If she had not been allowed to compete in this situation, then the school would not have been able to field a team and the rest of the players would have just picked up their bat bags and packed them away for the spring.

This school is rarely competitive. I believe that they went 10 years between wins at one point. But this school always fields teams that have outstanding character and great sportsmanship. They play the game hard, regardless of the score, never complain and take their lumps. If sports is about developing young men/women into better people, it's hard to argue about the great display of sportsmanship and effort that you see. They just don't always have the "talent" to be competitive too.

So, as a general rule, keep them separate. But always be willing to review exceptional circumstances.

The question was "should they be allowed to", not "are they good enough to".

I see no reason to exclude anybody based solely on gender.

Why would you intentionally overlook somebody who would make your team better?

Pioneer...so, based on your comments, you are o.k. with guys playing on the softball team?

The question was "Should girls be allowed to play baseball?"

What does that have to do with guys playing softball?

C'mon Pioneer Dad...your answer was
"I see no reason to exclude anyone based soley upon gender". So DaddyBo asked a legitimate follow-up question IMO. If you stand by your statement I guess it's ok for boys to play on girl softball teams. Do you?

I'll vote no but for a different reason. Boys and girls are different, I know this will shock some but not all of you. That being said, it is healthy for boys to be involved in a all male activity from time to time, free from the worries of having to be concerned of what the girls might think. Inversely, the same is true for all girl activities. Our society continually tries to blur the line between men and women. I know a lot of men that use more hair care products than most women. It's a never ending battle of a society trying to feminize men and butch up the women. We are different for some really good reasons, reasons that I really like.

no

OK Pioneer Dad heres a scenario for you. If girls are allowed to play baseball then boys will be allowed to play softball. Lets say five or six boys decide that they are going to go out for softball since a talented young lady made the baseball team. These fellas got cut from baseball but are not that bad happens all the time. They are bigger and stronger than almost if not all the girls and they go out for the softball team. They make the team and now five girls are cut because these guys made the team. Now if one of those young ladies cut was your daughter how would you feel?

Coach May, with all due respect (uh-oh, you know what's coming now ) the basic dishonesty of your argument is evident in the way you state it. Young men are, on average, bigger and stronger than young women, due to inherent biolagical differences. If a young woman wants to try to compete she's not taking advantage of that natural disparity, she's willing to take on the greater challenge. Not so for the reverse. For older teenage boys to enter into a girls competition would be like a heavyweight wrestler taking on a 103 pounder. (And incidentally, in wrestling they do have rules which allow wrestlers to, in effect, wrestle "up" two weight classes, but never "down".) We don't need a rule to protect the boys from girls because the girls don't have a natural advantage. We do need a rule to prevent boys from taking an unfair advantage.

I am all in favor of girls trying out for any sport they desire (football, mens basketball, baseball) as long as boys are allowed to try out for the equivalent girls sport (in this case softball, or could be women's basketball, or maybe field hockey). I feel it is reverse descrimination to have it any other way. Lets change up an old saying slightly, "Whats good for the gander is good for the goose".

I agree with P-Dog on this one.

If the girl wants to try to "play up", I say go for it. That's what they do in hockey around here. There are several varsity hockey teams with both girls and boys on them.

Maybe the schools could just develop a "mixed" team for all of their sports. This way you could have one team for just boys, one for just girls and one team made up of boys who got cut from the boys team and girls that are abnormally big, strong and fast and way too good to play against other girls. This way all possible groups are represented.

HSDAD

I would suggest that you get a bit of reality in your thinking---HS is not LL or Rec ball !!!

Is bad enough that schools due to economics have the girls varsity softball traevling witht he boys varsity baseball--now you want a coed teams.

Read what you posted-- wjhat you write is discriminatory !!!! girls that are abnormally big, strong and fast---they would be "studdesses" on the softball team so why would the softball coach let them play coed

I have no feelings about this discussion one way or the other.

A couple questions though regarding this issue at the high school level.

TR,
Is "studdesses" a real word?

HSDad,
How would those boys who are cut from the team feel about playing coed baseball?

Don’t most states have a girls and boys athletic association? Which organization deals with the girls playing baseball? If she is really good would she be inducted into the Boy's hall of fame?

They have girls basketball and they have boys basketball at most schools. Should the girls be able to decide which one they want to play?

I say if there is a girl who can throw 90 mph and can out hit and out run all my other players. I want her on my team! But as TR stated the softball coach might be angry about me stealing one of their "studdesses".

PioneerDad,

Sounds like a bit of a flip/flop in your attitude. If we are talking equality and not discriminating based on gender---it MUST go both ways! And IMO both ways are equally unacceptable. As a parent of both boys and girls---I dont want to see either scenario.

I'm just saying if were going to find ways to "pansy up" the game, lets go all the way and have coed teams for everything. And let's quit keeping score while were at it so nobody gets there feelings hurt by losing. Plus, I think opposing teams should have to wear identical uniforms, this way one group of players won't feel bad because their uniforms aren't as nice as the other teams. Low self esteem could cause poor play.

"Studdesses"!? Oh no way, we have to develop a single word that describes boys and girls equally. Maybe we could refer to outstanding players of either *** as HeSheStudasauruses or something non-gender specific.

And who cares about the economics of adding coed teams!? just raise my taxes again, I've come to expect it as a yearly reality, after all, its for the children.

Finally, if a boy feels bad about having to play intergender baseball because he was cut from the boys team, no problem. We get grief counselors to come in and teach them to cope. We already have the money allocated from our last tax increase (see above).

I’ve got the feeling that the people who suggested that the girls should be allowed to play boy sports but not visa-versa have the same mindset as the ones who came up with title IX.

How about this novel idea, the boys play with the boys and the girls with the girls. I am referring to sports; otherwise it should be the complete opposite and preferably after marriage.

Fan-
There's no flip/flop at all.
As P-Dog stated, if a girl tries out for baseball she is not taking advantage of some natural disparity, whereas a boy trying out for softball is.

The teams are not called Boys Baseball and Girls Softball. If a school has enough interest, it could have mens and womens teams, just like basketball. Boys can't play on the girls team and vice versa. That is in the interest of maintaining a level playing for all teams.

Softball is not "Women's Baseball". It's a different game; actually a couple of different games - fastpitch, slowpitch.

I seriously think some of you guys are using the old "boy on the softball team" argument in support of your old-school gender bias. Just say it: you don't want girls on the baseball team, just because they are girls. Get them out of the club house, too.

PioneerDad - at our school they DO call it GIRLS' Softball and Boys' Baseball...

Can SOME girls play at the HS level - YES.
Should they [when they have an alternative]? - NO
There is a reason why schools have baseball AND softball teams - a team for girls and a team for boys. That being said, if a girl is good enough, I guess she should be able to play [ I just don't like it, for many of the reasons already stated]. Unfortunately in this day and age of gender equality, what would happen if a guy went out for softball?? Would he be allowed??
We have had several boys playing field hockey against our HS team the last couple years. It was a disgrace - they physically overmatched the girls - faster, out-muscled them [as much as you can be physical in that screwy sport] and when they shot the ball everybody except the goalie [Windmill-ette] just bailed out. They shot it SOOO much harder. Was it fair?? I don't think so, but legally they couldn't exclude the boys [possibly because they had no alternative - and ICE hockey doesn't count as an alternative. Funny side note: whenever the guy would run by - in his SKIRT - the boys from our school would yell at him - "DUDE - it's called ICE hockey!!"].

Pioneer Dad and P Dog...whew, can't see your argument at all. You state that gender should not limit opportunities yet you then say that really only women should benefit from equal opportunities since they are physically inferior. I got news for you...there are physical differences within the same gender too. How do you address that? Matter of fact, what you are saying is that if a female is big enough and strong enough, she should have carte blanche where she wants to play, but if a little guy can't make the boys team, but wants to try softball, you'd deny him? If you can't see the fallacy in that argument then don't feel the need to respond. Boy you guys are really whipped. Gotta run, my wife only lets me talk on the computer for an hour a day. ;>

I have some Windex if anyone wants to clean their rose colored glasses!

quote:

Just say it: you don't want girls on the baseball team, just because they are girls. Get them out of the club house, too.

Sometimes, IMHO, boys/men need to be with boys/men and girls/women need to be with girls/women. There are differences that no amount of wishing or legislation can change.

And I, being of the female persuasion, also don't think that women belong in a men's clubhouse, or that men belong in a women's clubhouse. Some things are just best left alone. There is nothing wrong with some things being "segragated" by the sexes.

Futureback,

You are applying way too much common sense to this issue.