Is it time for GNC to be checked out?
Interesting stuff with the current suspensions
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Can you provide more info TR. All I can find was one Phillies pitcher suspended. Are there more?
Newly signed Yankee pitcher today was suspended
Saw an interesting bit with regard to Romero---the GNC product he had apparently had no warning on it while in the hearing MLB showed him the same product with a warning on it
The have been long time running rumors about the GNC products
Saw an interesting bit with regard to Romero---the GNC product he had apparently had no warning on it while in the hearing MLB showed him the same product with a warning on it
The have been long time running rumors about the GNC products
Mr. Carlo Romerio was suppended for 50 games (without pay). for testing positive for a substance he claimes to have bought over the counter at a Cherry Hill N.J. GNC. He claimes to have used the supplement (6OXO) last summer and it didn't show up on MLB's baned substance list till the fall. The ruling is said to be final and not reversable or able to be appealed. This info was as reported this evening on channel 6 Action News.
Not sure why GNC should be checked out? There are a variety of substances available over the counter that are banned by MLB. This whole thing is a bit confusing if you ask me.
JMO.
Here's the story.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090106&conten...b&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
JMO.
Here's the story.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090106&conten...b&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
I thought selling steroids was illegal, isn't it?
TPM
Why be checked out !!!!!
Why not ???
If their productes are containing illegal substances don't HS parents want to know
You are a bit confused if you ask me
Why be checked out !!!!!
Why not ???
If their productes are containing illegal substances don't HS parents want to know
You are a bit confused if you ask me
In Romero's situation, he tested positive for andro, which is a precursor to steroids. Usage of it in baseball became headline news when it was noticed in Mark McGwire's locker-- before MLB banned it. The point of contention is that Romero tested for a fairly low level of andro, and claims that came from regularly ingesting a supplement that carried low levels of andro. There is an alternate explanation: he may have taken an intentional and large amount of andro some time before the test, and most of it had already been eliminated from his body.
The problem for the testers is that it isn't really possible to tell which explanation is correct. So WADA, which oversees much of the athletic drug testing in the world, but not baseball, takes the view that the player is responsible for what ends up in his body, and punishes regardless of how it got there. Baseball, which as we know, has largely turned a blind eye to PEDs generally, is now in a tough spot. If they buy Romero's and Mitre's explanation, and don't suspend, MLB will look to be still much softer on PEDs than most of the athletic world. If they don't buy it, possibly the players are being unfairly punished.
I have read several reports that this is the first instance of steroid contamination in over the counter supplements, but that is wildly untrue. Nandralone has been the most common "contaminate."
Complicating the issue is the fact that Romero failed a drug test a couple of years ago, and got off by claiming that he was taking a fertility drug. There is a little bit of smoke here.....
The problem for the testers is that it isn't really possible to tell which explanation is correct. So WADA, which oversees much of the athletic drug testing in the world, but not baseball, takes the view that the player is responsible for what ends up in his body, and punishes regardless of how it got there. Baseball, which as we know, has largely turned a blind eye to PEDs generally, is now in a tough spot. If they buy Romero's and Mitre's explanation, and don't suspend, MLB will look to be still much softer on PEDs than most of the athletic world. If they don't buy it, possibly the players are being unfairly punished.
I have read several reports that this is the first instance of steroid contamination in over the counter supplements, but that is wildly untrue. Nandralone has been the most common "contaminate."
Complicating the issue is the fact that Romero failed a drug test a couple of years ago, and got off by claiming that he was taking a fertility drug. There is a little bit of smoke here.....
We were recently told that the Illinois High School Association was going to test and punish for use of creatine.
We looked at the label on the Whey Protein shakes we were taking and, sure enough, they have creatine. That Whey went right into the garbage. You could say we threw it a whey! (sorry)
In doing a limited amount of research, I found that benefits and downsides to creatine are not well known.
Even more distressing, was to learn what Romero and Mitre just found out...these supplements are not FDA regulated. Therefore, they may not actually include all the ingredients on the label. OR WORSE, they might include things NOT on the ingredient list.
Remember when we were kids and we were told to eat a balanced diet, exercise and get enough sleep? Well, that is my son's new training regimen.
We looked at the label on the Whey Protein shakes we were taking and, sure enough, they have creatine. That Whey went right into the garbage. You could say we threw it a whey! (sorry)
In doing a limited amount of research, I found that benefits and downsides to creatine are not well known.
Even more distressing, was to learn what Romero and Mitre just found out...these supplements are not FDA regulated. Therefore, they may not actually include all the ingredients on the label. OR WORSE, they might include things NOT on the ingredient list.
Remember when we were kids and we were told to eat a balanced diet, exercise and get enough sleep? Well, that is my son's new training regimen.
These weren't illegal substances, but banned.
MLB encourages you to call their 800 number before taking any OTC or supplement. Good reason not to trust anyone, including your trainer, on what is allowed and what is not allowed.
As an example, that pseudo stuff in cold meds is not illegal, but banned in some sports competition.
They weren't banned for taking the supplement, but for not taking personal responsibility. I don't get how that results in a 50 game suspension.
MLB encourages you to call their 800 number before taking any OTC or supplement. Good reason not to trust anyone, including your trainer, on what is allowed and what is not allowed.
As an example, that pseudo stuff in cold meds is not illegal, but banned in some sports competition.
They weren't banned for taking the supplement, but for not taking personal responsibility. I don't get how that results in a 50 game suspension.
biggerpappi,
There are several nutritional protein products that do not contain creatine. Plain whey protein does not contain creatine. Maybe you had something with creatine added , they do have products that do.
There are several nutritional protein products that do not contain creatine. Plain whey protein does not contain creatine. Maybe you had something with creatine added , they do have products that do.
Do you take drugs Danny? Everyday? Good. Is this Russia? This isn't Russia is it?
Cheater Cheater Pumpkin Eater
Cheater Cheater Pumpkin Eater
I guess that they took supplements not on the safe list, which can uphold the argument for 50 game suspension.
I did read that Romero did test postive before but stated that it was for fertility reasons.
Hello, anyone home? How many times can one try to fool the system?
I did read that Romero did test postive before but stated that it was for fertility reasons.
Hello, anyone home? How many times can one try to fool the system?
Fuzzy little foreigners
TPM
He, Romero, and his wife did in fact have a child after he was cleared of the charges
Read the articles on the latest event---there is one report that Romero had a product bottle with no warning label and MLB showed up with a bottle of the same product with a warning label at the meeting
Also is there not a current injunction in pro football because 5 or so players took an over the counter product that had a banned substance in it
Bottom line: if our kids are using GNC products what are they putting in their body?
He, Romero, and his wife did in fact have a child after he was cleared of the charges
Read the articles on the latest event---there is one report that Romero had a product bottle with no warning label and MLB showed up with a bottle of the same product with a warning label at the meeting
Also is there not a current injunction in pro football because 5 or so players took an over the counter product that had a banned substance in it
Bottom line: if our kids are using GNC products what are they putting in their body?
GNC is a very big vitamin and supplement store. I have a hard time believing they lie about whats in their products. They do have all that precursor to steroids though, I have been in there hundreds of times, i buy our familys vitamins there. Many of these kids taking this stuff from GNC know full well what they are taking. Many products require that your 18, so someone is buying it for kids under 18. Why dont they make all precursors to steroids illegal also...???jkn
Why is this GNC's fault?
Every MLB player knows he risks contamination with over the counter supps. It's rare, but does happen.
It was not andro that he was taking either. No one uses andro anymore. No one has used it since 1998 or so. It doesn't work and mainly converts to estrogen.
GNC carries their own line of product in addition to select 3rd party brands. The product that Romero claims caused him to fail is a 3rd party brand.
And who is to say he wasn't taking something else? Not saying he was or wasn't, just that there have been plenty of athletes who have blamed OTC supps when, in fact, they later admitted to use. OTC supps is the easy cop out.
It is true, every OTC supp is not regulated by the FDA under the DSHEA act. If it is found in the food chain and in nature, you can sell it OTC. There are some supps that fall in the grey area.
There are literally thousands of proteins on the market. Some contain creatine and some don't. All it takes is one glance at the label to see if your protein contains creatine or not. A large company such as GNC has way too much to lose by not listing whats in the bottle on the label.
As always, you should research (and not just a simple Google search) anything you put in your body. And you should be held accountable for it as well.
Every MLB player knows he risks contamination with over the counter supps. It's rare, but does happen.
It was not andro that he was taking either. No one uses andro anymore. No one has used it since 1998 or so. It doesn't work and mainly converts to estrogen.
GNC carries their own line of product in addition to select 3rd party brands. The product that Romero claims caused him to fail is a 3rd party brand.
And who is to say he wasn't taking something else? Not saying he was or wasn't, just that there have been plenty of athletes who have blamed OTC supps when, in fact, they later admitted to use. OTC supps is the easy cop out.
It is true, every OTC supp is not regulated by the FDA under the DSHEA act. If it is found in the food chain and in nature, you can sell it OTC. There are some supps that fall in the grey area.
There are literally thousands of proteins on the market. Some contain creatine and some don't. All it takes is one glance at the label to see if your protein contains creatine or not. A large company such as GNC has way too much to lose by not listing whats in the bottle on the label.
As always, you should research (and not just a simple Google search) anything you put in your body. And you should be held accountable for it as well.
Son got a questionnaire from a MLB scout. It had a question "did you or are you now using supplement with Creatine", so I would avoid this substance. If an MLB team asks that question, a yes answer is probably going to hurt your projection. He was honest and said yes but is not using it anymore.
Here are some reasons why fertility drug usage is banned. I'm not going to mention the actual names of the drugs, but the main medical reason for taking them is to stimulate ovulation. However, it turns out that they also tend to stimulate testosterone production and sometimes sperm release. They are not very effective for male fertility, but there are some successes.
So there are two issues relevant to users of steroids and testosterone. When a male uses an anabolic steroid, his own body's testosterone production is suppressed. When he stops taking the steroid, a fertility drug is often used to stimulate resumption of the natural production of testosterone and sperm, and restore the natural balance. Without that, he may actually have a temporary decrease in perfomance after stopping.
Secondly, a person naturally makes testosterone (T) and also epi-testosterone (E). If a person takes additional testosterone or steroids, the natural production of T and E is suppressed. So (mostly externally generated) T is high in the body, and E is low. The most common test for testosterone usage is to check the ratio of T/E metabolites in urine. But it turns out that fertility drugs drive up E production, and by balancing the dosage of testosterone and the fertility drug, the T/E ratio can be made to look normal. Note that unlike most analbolic steroids, testosterone is naturally produced in the body, and the amount varies considerably across the population. It's not easy to just look at the testosterone level and determine if it is artificially administered. Hence the T/E test.
Detecting fertility drugs in an athlete's body (male or female) is a definite red flag. It can have an innocent explanation, but it usually means something else.
So there are two issues relevant to users of steroids and testosterone. When a male uses an anabolic steroid, his own body's testosterone production is suppressed. When he stops taking the steroid, a fertility drug is often used to stimulate resumption of the natural production of testosterone and sperm, and restore the natural balance. Without that, he may actually have a temporary decrease in perfomance after stopping.
Secondly, a person naturally makes testosterone (T) and also epi-testosterone (E). If a person takes additional testosterone or steroids, the natural production of T and E is suppressed. So (mostly externally generated) T is high in the body, and E is low. The most common test for testosterone usage is to check the ratio of T/E metabolites in urine. But it turns out that fertility drugs drive up E production, and by balancing the dosage of testosterone and the fertility drug, the T/E ratio can be made to look normal. Note that unlike most analbolic steroids, testosterone is naturally produced in the body, and the amount varies considerably across the population. It's not easy to just look at the testosterone level and determine if it is artificially administered. Hence the T/E test.
Detecting fertility drugs in an athlete's body (male or female) is a definite red flag. It can have an innocent explanation, but it usually means something else.
we recieved an e-mail sent from the mlb commisioners office. explaining that 3 otc supplements (as i remember they were sold at gnc and the vitamin shoppe) had caused numerous failed test's. and to stop using them.
i don't remember what it was they contained,maybe xoc?
i don't remember what it was they contained,maybe xoc?
The AM story in the NY Times stated that Romero had asked the strength coach about it and was told to NOT take it.
Yes...it stinks for him...but an athlete bears the ultimate responsibility for what is put in the body and knowing 100% if it is legal or not. Had he called the hotline and was told the stuff was OK...THEN tested positive, he would have a case.
Perhaps it is time for MLB to use the NFL plan and develop a list of APPROVED substances...with anything else at the users own risk.
Yes...it stinks for him...but an athlete bears the ultimate responsibility for what is put in the body and knowing 100% if it is legal or not. Had he called the hotline and was told the stuff was OK...THEN tested positive, he would have a case.
Perhaps it is time for MLB to use the NFL plan and develop a list of APPROVED substances...with anything else at the users own risk.
quote:Originally posted by fanofgame:
biggerpappi,
There are several nutritional protein products that do not contain creatine. Plain whey protein does not contain creatine. Maybe you had something with creatine added , they do have products that do.
I'm afraid to have him take anything now. Besides, I don't want my boys to ever think there can rely on medicinal "shortcuts" to get better.
quote:Originally posted by biggerpapi:
We were recently told that the Illinois High School Association was going to test and punish for use of creatine.
In doing a limited amount of research, I found that benefits and downsides to creatine are not well known.
Papi,
I think you're mistaken about the ban on creatine in Illinois, almost positive about that. Creatine is a naturally forming substance that occurs in red meat. If you were to ban it, athletes could no longer eat steak.
As to the research on it, it is probably one of the most researched supplements available. There is not a consensus on benefit from it, but then again there's not a consensus on the benefit of whey protien supplements either...or a consensus on global warming or....I think you get my point.
Yeah, I can't find it on the IHSA website any more and one of their links to a list of banned substances doesn't work.
I think I need to call down there to get clarification.
To err on the safe side, we'll still stay away from it just in case. Penalty is 365 days off!
I think I need to call down there to get clarification.
To err on the safe side, we'll still stay away from it just in case. Penalty is 365 days off!
What is the actual name of the product so the rest of us do not have to get a magnifying glass to read the micro fine print they call labels
6-OXO is what he claims he took. Everyone should also realize this product is made by the guy who manufactured The Cream and The Clear for Victor Conte.
There are multiple products that you can get at your supplement shop that will cause a failed drug test. I'm not going to name product names, but anything with the ingredient ATD or 6-bromo will cause this. If you need the exact names, PM me.
Most individuals, including the employees at the stores, have no idea these ingredients can result in a failed drug test. These are very popular supplements and are used by many athletes. 99% have no idea what they are taking can cause a failed test.
This is another in the long list of reasons why if you are too lazy to do a little research, you have no business putting it in your body.
There are multiple products that you can get at your supplement shop that will cause a failed drug test. I'm not going to name product names, but anything with the ingredient ATD or 6-bromo will cause this. If you need the exact names, PM me.
Most individuals, including the employees at the stores, have no idea these ingredients can result in a failed drug test. These are very popular supplements and are used by many athletes. 99% have no idea what they are taking can cause a failed test.
This is another in the long list of reasons why if you are too lazy to do a little research, you have no business putting it in your body.
biggerpapi,
I understand your fear. But I just cant get my mind around whey protein being medicinal.People have been drinking protein shakes for years. Whey is in many products look at list on your food. I agree about all the other stuff esp. if we dont know exact names of stuff thats banned. I think pure whey protein is safe.
I understand your fear. But I just cant get my mind around whey protein being medicinal.People have been drinking protein shakes for years. Whey is in many products look at list on your food. I agree about all the other stuff esp. if we dont know exact names of stuff thats banned. I think pure whey protein is safe.
quote:Originally posted by Jon Doyle:
Why is this GNC's fault?
Every MLB player knows he risks contamination with over the counter supps. It's rare, but does happen.
It was not andro that he was taking either. No one uses andro anymore. No one has used it since 1998 or so. It doesn't work and mainly converts to estrogen.
GNC carries their own line of product in addition to select 3rd party brands. The product that Romero claims caused him to fail is a 3rd party brand.
And who is to say he wasn't taking something else? Not saying he was or wasn't, just that there have been plenty of athletes who have blamed OTC supps when, in fact, they later admitted to use. OTC supps is the easy cop out.
It is true, every OTC supp is not regulated by the FDA under the DSHEA act. If it is found in the food chain and in nature, you can sell it OTC. There are some supps that fall in the grey area.
There are literally thousands of proteins on the market. Some contain creatine and some don't. All it takes is one glance at the label to see if your protein contains creatine or not. A large company such as GNC has way too much to lose by not listing whats in the bottle on the label.
As always, you should research (and not just a simple Google search) anything you put in your body. And you should be held accountable for it as well.
TR,
Not sure why you singled out my statment about checking out GNC. I guess John is just as confused as I am.
quote:Originally posted by JT:
Perhaps it is time for MLB to use the NFL plan and develop a list of APPROVED substances...with anything else at the users own risk.
MLB/MILB does have a list of approved and banned substances. Each player is given the hotline number as well as the website and each phone call is documented.It IS the player's responsibility to ask questions. I have seen son call tehe hotline number while in the drugstore asking what he can and he cannot take, including a steroid creme that was prescibed for him for a skin condition.
quote:Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
Here are some reasons why fertility drug usage is banned....
So there are two issues relevant to users of steroids and testosterone. When a male uses an anabolic steroid, his own body's testosterone production is suppressed. When he stops taking the steroid, a fertility drug is often used to stimulate resumption of the natural production of testosterone and sperm, and restore the natural balance. Without that, he may actually have a temporary decrease in perfomance after stopping.
Detecting fertility drugs in an athlete's body (male or female) is a definite red flag. It can have an innocent explanation, but it usually means something else.
Thanks for that explanation 3FG, I am definetly not CONFUSED anymore.
After reading the info given, can understand the 50 game suspension.quote:Originally posted by biggerpapi:
We were recently told that the Illinois High School Association was going to test and punish for use of creatine.
We looked at the label on the Whey Protein shakes we were taking and, sure enough, they have creatine. That Whey went right into the garbage. You could say we threw it a whey! (sorry)
In doing a limited amount of research, I found that benefits and downsides to creatine are not well known.
Even more distressing, was to learn what Romero and Mitre just found out...these supplements are not FDA regulated. Therefore, they may not actually include all the ingredients on the label. OR WORSE, they might include things NOT on the ingredient list.
Remember when we were kids and we were told to eat a balanced diet, exercise and get enough sleep? Well, that is my son's new training regimen.
I wonder how they would do that. I believe Creatine is also in red meat. No steak for you!!
Sounds like a BIG mix-up of info on everybodys part from what I have read. JC said he had a nutritionalist approve the drug as well as his trainer. Yet he tested positive. He had been taking the drug before it was banned and has never tested positive before. So something had to have happened between the time he took the drug originally to when he took the drug that made him test positive. Whether that be something added to the supplement at the factory that had not been an ingridient before to boost productivity, a bum test, a cold pill, whatever. I think that the MLB has to be more clear on what players can and can not take either by releasing a statement or a pamphlet or something. Because somebody could get wrongly accused such as it looks in this case. Thats my take.
Uh no offense This guy but
While he may trust these two people they probably aren't experts as to what MLB allows or doesn't allow. It's his responsibility to find out exactly what is and isn't allowed to be taken.
It got banned. Just because you can take it without penalty before doesn't mean that you can keep taking it. Once MLB said some things were banned he should have looked it up and either stopped taking it or contacted MLB to find out more information.
They did. If a MLB player wants to find out what is allowed or banned they have a phone number to call and talk to the people who know. It's not MLB is going to ban a bunch of stuff and not tell anyone. Then the players have no idea what they can and cannot take which turns into a weird game of Russian Roulette.
quote:JC said he had a nutritionalist approve the drug as well as his trainer.
While he may trust these two people they probably aren't experts as to what MLB allows or doesn't allow. It's his responsibility to find out exactly what is and isn't allowed to be taken.
quote:He had been taking the drug before it was banned and has never tested positive before. So something had to have happened between the time he took the drug originally to when he took the drug that made him test positive.
It got banned. Just because you can take it without penalty before doesn't mean that you can keep taking it. Once MLB said some things were banned he should have looked it up and either stopped taking it or contacted MLB to find out more information.
quote:I think that the MLB has to be more clear on what players can and can not take either by releasing a statement or a pamphlet or something. Because somebody could get wrongly accused such as it looks in this case.
They did. If a MLB player wants to find out what is allowed or banned they have a phone number to call and talk to the people who know. It's not MLB is going to ban a bunch of stuff and not tell anyone. Then the players have no idea what they can and cannot take which turns into a weird game of Russian Roulette.
quote:Originally posted by Estone28:
I wonder how they would do that. I believe Creatine is also in red meat. No steak for you!!
There is more creatine in wild salmon, one of my favorite foods. Cooking red meats does reduce creatine levels in the food. I love sushi!
You'd have to eat a river full of salmon to increase your creatine levels much: The average dosage is 10-30 grams per day.
I pasted this from a FAQ from some "muscle site"
Can I increase my creatine level without taking supplements?
Yes, but it’s very impractical. This is because foods like red meat that contain creatine only have very small amounts. For example, a pound of raw steak contains about 0.9 grams of creatine. So if you wanted to get 10 grams of creatine per day you would have to eat 10 pounds of steak (preferably raw!). The fat content of the steak would cause severe weight gains as well.
I pasted this from a FAQ from some "muscle site"
Can I increase my creatine level without taking supplements?
Yes, but it’s very impractical. This is because foods like red meat that contain creatine only have very small amounts. For example, a pound of raw steak contains about 0.9 grams of creatine. So if you wanted to get 10 grams of creatine per day you would have to eat 10 pounds of steak (preferably raw!). The fat content of the steak would cause severe weight gains as well.
10-30 grams is overkill. 3-5 grams after you workout is plenty and effective.
JD: i am sure you are correct; I got that figure from an internet site. I know nothing about Creatine or any supplement.
Do you think it is beneficial in the development of a baseball player?
thanks for your input.
Do you think it is beneficial in the development of a baseball player?
thanks for your input.
It helps. But it's certainly not a base. The player has to have a foundation of strength and a solid record of eating properly and working out consistantly.
Individuals who eat red meat 3 or more times per week seems to get less benefit than those who don't eat red meat or eat it sparingly. This is because baseline creatine levels are typically lower in those who do not eat red meat.
I've seen it have a huge effect in some users and none in others. I never got much out of it, but I eat red meat quite often. Most individuals will gain a few pounds and get a few more reps on each set. This can go a long way if training and nutrition are in order.
Individuals who eat red meat 3 or more times per week seems to get less benefit than those who don't eat red meat or eat it sparingly. This is because baseline creatine levels are typically lower in those who do not eat red meat.
I've seen it have a huge effect in some users and none in others. I never got much out of it, but I eat red meat quite often. Most individuals will gain a few pounds and get a few more reps on each set. This can go a long way if training and nutrition are in order.
Skipper,
Many people cycle their creatine supplement intake through three phases. Phase 1, which lasts 5 days, is known as the loading phase and taking between 20 and 30 grams per day, depending on body weight, is normal. The second is the maintainance phase, which is usually 4 weeks, and averages 2 - 3.5 grams per day. The third phase is the washout phase, 4 weeks of no creatine.
Many people cycle their creatine supplement intake through three phases. Phase 1, which lasts 5 days, is known as the loading phase and taking between 20 and 30 grams per day, depending on body weight, is normal. The second is the maintainance phase, which is usually 4 weeks, and averages 2 - 3.5 grams per day. The third phase is the washout phase, 4 weeks of no creatine.