Go to college for baseball or academics?

I would submit that plenty of decisions are made with the baseball "fit" the primary determining factor. Successful decisions also correctly blend the academic side of the equation. jmo

Would I want to go to this school if I got hurt and I never played baseball again. That would be a good question to answer before making a decision on a school.

You know...we keep counseling academics first...and son sits, listens, smiles, nods in agreement....but what goes unsaid is that his life's passion continues to be baseball...how can that not influence his decision in a major way? It is very difficult to put an old head on young shoulders....

Fungo

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

Some kids go to school TO play baseball. Others go to school AND play baseball. If they wind up with a degree, either way is fine. If not, well, that we can debate (and probably will).

There are so many factors that go into the decision as to where to go to school (and when/if to leave one). Some kids don't get it right, some schools/teams don't get it right, some parents don't get it right ... and sometimes it's nobody's fault it isn't right.

Would seem the best thing for any parent/player looking for advice/counsel here is to lay out some details first. That way when they get responses, there is some context.

P.S. - My kid would tell you he is going to college TO play baseball. And as long as his GPA stays at 3.something, I'm happy for him to go on thinking that way. If it slips, then perhaps I'll try to change his mind.

Agree with Coach May.

My son based his decision on exactly that kind of scenario.

Ideally I agree with Coach May too. But I know that for most kids the "baseball" thoughts come up in their mind more than the academic thoughts during the recruiting process.

On a related note, I am a believer that you can get a great education at most colleges...big state school or small private school. A lot depends on what the student puts into it. I personally went to a big state school for undergraduate and an elite private school for graduate school. Got great educations at both...but would rate the classroom instruction as better at the big state school. Have talked to many others with similar experiences as me.

This is gonna be just like rotational and linear........................

Like Canis bleue poo poo all over the yard again.

Like the politicians have taught us its about ..........COMPROMISE...........


About a 2.54 PGA and a LOT of playing time is a pretty good COMPROMISE.

Just my humble opine.............

Baseball or academics? For us the answer was YES & YES. Son was very fortunate to have had some great choices, so as a family the options were narrowed to a small group of good academic schools. Then, son made the final selection from this group, picking the college he felt had the best position-specific development program that will help him reach his goal of MLB. So, we're both happy with the final choice.

I think it is based upon the kind of son you have. Ultimately it's their decision in what direction they want to pursue. Yes we can discuss options but they have to be self-motivated about their selections.

After looking at various opportunities my son chose to attend our local jc college even though he could have gone to a state university. He wanted to play ball with his buddies and now they are planning to transfer to a state college together in '06 to play ball at one of the state universites while renting a house and sharing the expenses. All of this has been his choices and the only thing he has done is spoken to me for about five minutes to ask what I thought. I simply asked him what he thought about it and he stated his reasons. I asked him if he was comfortable with it and he said yes. Sounds good enough to me...and he's has decided to major in Marine-Biology. So there you have it.

I really don't think there is anything wrong with a kid choosing a school based on baseball. If it is the vehicle that gets him to class---so be it. I feel as though once he is there and knows that he is expected to hold a 3.0 (in Fla. that is what is required to hold on to the Bright Futures Scholarship)then he will be fine. Bottom line---he MUST be happy. If that means that he loves the baseball program and is willing to deal with the academic side--so be it. JMO

I am a strong believer that the value of your education has less to do with the institution than it has to do with your own desire to learn

Put a kid who won't study, who skips classes, who hates school in the finest school and he still won't get a great education.

Put a hard working kid who enjoys learning and strives to excel in his school work in most any school and he will still get a great education.

With that in mind, why not let baseball have a strong influence. After all, if that is his passion it may be enough to turn the tables on how hard he is willing to work to get that education.

Lets put it this way--if it weren't for baseball my son would not have gone to college--baseball was the "carrot" that got him his degree while he played major Division I baseball.

The baseball program/coaches is playing an important role in making a college decision for my son. Since baseball is his passion and is what is going to help pay for school, I think it should be a major consideration for us. Obviously, there needs to be a major/program your child is interested in and can choose for a career. There's those variables like distance, location, etc. However, if the baseball program isn't a fit, I don't see my son being successful. Right or wrong, it's driven him in high school and I think it'll be what drives him in higher ed.

I agree a kid can get a great education just about anywhere. You get out of it what you put into it. But if a kid goes to a school solely based on the coach and the facilities or better put baseball in general what happens when baseball goes south. If he hates the school and baseball is going good he will suck it up and deal with it because baseball is the reason he went there in the first place. But if baseball goes south and he really doesnt like the school either then hes going to leave. And the problem with that is more than likely he will not go back to school. Some do but most do not. I feel that most kids that are really into baseball go to school to extend their careers because they love the game. A by product of that is that they get a degree. Thats the part we parents love. But the kids are there by and large because they love the game and want to play. If thats what gets them in the door who cares as long as they get that degree before they leave.

Coach May-Very good points. I may be wrong but in my opinion most of the "above average"
baseball players in high school are above average because they have a passion for the game
and basically eat,sleep and breathe baseball. There are some who also like to study and excell academically, but I would venture to say they are in the minority(especially after
going to showcases and seeing the average SAT/ACT scores). I think the college baseball
player, for the most part, is there to play baseball and academics are a necessary evil for
them to participate. Hopefully, down the road they will realize the importance of a higher
education but after 12 straight years of school(k-12) a lot of kids would love to just take a break.

If a student athlete is motivated, he/she will get a good education no matter where they go
to school.

Good topic. But I think the answer follows the oldVaman's cliche "different strokes for different folks". In our case it came down to the best baseball fit and out of pocket costs.

* All 4 school choices had high academic standards.

* As a HS senior he felt more comfortable 160 miles from home versus 1500 miles away.

* He melded with the coaches better at the school he chose.

Bottom line, he chose the school that was the best baseball fit and secondly gave him the best educational opportunity. He is not going to be a doctor, lawyer, or an engineer, his long range plan is to teach secondary ed when he gets done with his dream of playing baseball. In order to realize that dream he had to rate the baseball factor higher on the school choice list. I think we're all on the same page. However, some of our kids have the smarts and desire to pursue loftier career goals and that affects the school decision.

Academics should ALWAYS outweigh baseball...period. How many kids will make a living that will support them for the rest of their lives playing baseball? Maybe one in a million? Baseball is the greatest game in the world, and as a former minor-leaguer I would never say it isn't important, but let's keep the big picture in mind, shall we?
Baseball MUST be a factor in determining a school, as that will be a major part of that young man's life. Anyone that has played the game collegiately knows the time commitment necessary to excel at that level. So it has to be a factor, and probably a big factor....but....
Education is the key to life. It is the reason colleges exist, and I would never steer a young man to college SOLELY to play baseball...but I've helped many in my years as an educator steer their lives in a successful direction using education as their means of transportation!
I love baseball as much as anyone...but keep perspective: it is a moment in time, not time itself.

Students should make their college selections based on what's important to them and within their family budget. If baseball is their top priority, that should guide their decision.

I personally don't believe students need to make decisions based on the "what ifs" ...ie. what if I'm hurt, what if my coach leaves, what if I don't like my degree plan, etc.

Make your selection based on what's important to you and within your budget. If things change and your college situation doesn't match your needs, you can transfer. Kids do it all the time.

My oldest son realized there would be no paychecks in his baseball future so he chose engineering at the school of his choice over several D-3 offers that were on the table. It may not be for everyone but he is very satisfied playing on the Club team. Now that there is the NCBA with 20 conferences and 97 teams currently (and growing) trying to reach the NCBA World Series in Florida, the quality of play is improving. For the young men that really love the game and the varsity team is just not an option at the academic school of their choice they should consider this option. There is no reason to hang up your cleats if you don't have to. There are alot more young men that try out and don't make the team than do so don't think that these guys aren't competitive.

This is another discussion that shows how things are different strokes for different strokes.

But, I would also interject that during the recruiting period baseball players usually meet with the coaches to see if they will be a good fit for them, regardless of success/failure/how many alums were drafted, etc. The fit with the coach is often more relevant than anything else.

How many people on this board can say that they made sure their son's (or their own) academic advisor would be a great fit, or that the faculty members in the major would be good role models and mentors...???

I have read many posters who have mentioned that they were impressed with head coaches
and assistant coaches, but I have not heard anyone say that they chose a college because of the academic advisors or faculty members.

A great academic reputation doesn't guarantee that a student will succeed academically or that he will get along with the relevant faculty members.......the same can be said for the baseball programs.

Another 'what if' could be, "What if I don't get along with the faculty members in my academic program?"

Coach Knight made a statement

quote:

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Academics should ALWAYS outweigh baseball...period.

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Under certain circumstances I couldn't agree more. But for example, what does a kid who has similar athletic offers to 5 D1 schools do? Take the offer from the best rated academically (#54 vs. #123)? or, make his decision based on his fit in the baseball program? I think for many having to make a school choice this example holds true. Except for the top 20 and bottom 20, I don't think that there is a heck of a lot of difference in the academic programs accross the nation if a player puts forth the effort in the classroom. I think you can apply this example to D2 and D3 systems also.

I think Coach Knights statement hits home and is so true for the kid who is debating whether to pass up school and sign a minor contract or take a D&F route out of HS passing up the school choice.

rz1 and/or Coach Knight

What does the excellent player with excellent test scores and grades do? Does he pass on the SEC/ACC D1 ride, usually closer to home, for an Ivy League/ Patriot League situation. This scenario comes up over and over every year. Does he follow his heart, either way?

There is more than one school that can fit a young man academically and more than one school that fit a young man athletically. Most of them go to school for both baseball and to get an education. If the school ends up not fitting in either area there is nothing wrong with moving to another school to try to get the right fit in both areas.

Personally, I chose the weather. I decided to attend UCSB which didn't have my first choice of engineering major and where I didn't expect to make the tennis team instead of UC Davis where they had my preferred engineering major and I probably would have made the top six on the tennis team. Santa Barbara weather and beaches beat the heat in Davis.

Dad04 & rz1-
I understand what you are saying here, and I agree with your ideas. If you are comparing 5 quality D1 schools, and they all offer exceptional programs academically in your area of interest, than I think the quality of the baseball program (and many other factors) should dictate which direction you go. If you are talking Ivy League vs. Michigan, for example, I don't think you could go wrong either way.
My thinking dealt with the kid that goes to school ONLY for baseball - if we are comparing apples to apples, as in the examples above, than I don't know why a young man WOULDN'T use the baseball programs to help guide their decision at that point.

grateful,

Very clever twist on the conversation, but I think you may be off base. I think it is safe to say that a student-athlete is going to have a much more personal relationship with his/her coaches than with their academic advisor.

For example - I am a musician. I can remember the name of every conductor, every drum teacher, & every music professor that profoundly influenced me thru HS & college. I can't remember the name of a single academic counselor that I had thru HS or college.

I went to college to play baseball. You know, I never knew anyone was better than I was. Heck, in my small pond, I was a big fish. I LANDED IN THE OCEAN. My advice is always to seek an education first.

quote:

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My thinking dealt with the kid that goes to school ONLY for baseball - if we are comparing apples to apples, as in the examples above, than I don't know why a young man WOULDN'T use the baseball programs to help guide their decision at that point.

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I agree with you Coach Knight, and others who say that if several quality schools will fit the bill with academics, ie, the preferred major, quality of academics, etc. it then falls to the baseball program, the weather as CADad and myself picked our schools, then secondary factors. Thanks.

Coach Knight,
Sorry if I offended you in any way. I thought from the get-go that's what you meant, but I had to use your phrase to raise a point.

Dad04,
Sometimes hearts are over rated and reality sets in.

Tough call, Ivy or SEC. Do you really think you could lose either way?

Maybe it comes down to another intangible, the "offer". I'm sure many families rate this high on the priority list. My son, a pitcher, may have been able to go to many schools in the country and receive some type of minimal scholarship, but there was no way I could afford them, so most were off the list before they were on the list, regardless of where it stood athletically or academically. Maybe the issue is distance, maybe family health, maybe just peace of mind. There is a balance that every family has to answer to and as another family we have no right to question anothers decision. However, at times on this site we will offer our unsolicited opinions

Gosh, I agree with so much that has been said so far. I am so grateful to baseball, that just the academic requirements to stay eligible to play high school ball kept him from teetering over the edge grade-wise. His passion for the sport has brought him a long way. Now he is a soph, playing at a junior college and I'm thinking that his mentality is maturing and he quite possibly can see the benefit of being an eduacted person. I dig that. I really like that halfway house (junior college) he went off to. What a great environment for a kid to be sort of on his own. Now the search is on for another college for him to transfer to and get his bachelors degree. He wants to continue to play ball, but I'm not so sure that the degree of competition even comes into play. He just wants to play on a team.

No one in our family is rocket science material (I only count to 21, and occasionally pay 3-2) and our kid is not minor league baseball material either. From a parent's perspective, 5 or 10 years down the road I will be ever so grateful that he will have finished college. I probably won't care that much if he played baseball as a junior or senior in college. I mean, down the line a couple of years I just dont think that basball is the thing anymore.

Clearly it was baseball that got him to this point, and I think we are focusing a little more on the long term effects of education instead of the short term of having a spot on the starting roster. A part of this shift from athlete to student is that he is currently injured (throwing shoulder) and we are in the process of finding out how serious the injury is. I like how he's been growing up. It's a mix of baseball and academics.

I think to say that academics should ALWAYS come first , is a bit off base. If you are a college baseball player--A LOT of your time will be spent at the field. The quality of your daily life, and your happiness will be directly affected by how you feel about the baseball situation---if that's not good, i'm don't think if you are at the best school--you will be happy. Quite frankly, my goal is for my son to be happy and successful. I would certainly never advise him to stay at a job just because it paid well if he wasn't happy, and i will certainly never advise him to pick a school where he didnt think he could be happy about the baseball situation. Life is too short---Go after your dreams with all you have, whatever they may be.

Just last week mid semester marks were handed out and coach received a copy of all...he announced that the average GPA for the BB team was a 3.4...last year 12 boys from the team were ALL Scholastic in the conference...highest in the league...so based on these Stats I would venture to say these guys are maintaining their academic standards as well as working hard in BB

Just one thought. Everyone always says to pick a school where you will be content if baseball is out of the picture.

In reality, how content he will be depends on what happened to cause baseball to go south for the young man. Will he continue to be content with the school if he does not make the team, or gets very little playing time? That is a lot different than getting injured.

Things can change - that is a fact. But we as humans adapt pretty well to change.

dbg_fan....

I wasn't trying to be clever or to put a twist on anything.....we are talking about why student-athletes choose schools to attend; I am merely suggesting that the most influential persons in the recruiting process are the coaches, not the faculty members and academic advisors.

YourBasicMom,

I enjoyed your post very much...........................

We can all learn something from you post........

rz1- not offended at all. Just wanted to clarify my point. Thanks.

We've had a lot of talk over the years about "Fit," and how the academics have to work if the baseball doesn't.

Allow me, using my son's example, to perhaps put a twist on that.

I don't want him to be too comfortable. If that were to happen, he might not take his classes as seriously, might not work as hard as he has to, etc.

I've said in other places that I thought a big part of why he did so well academically as a freshman was that we kept him poor and transportation-less. We've taken roughly the same approach this year and, voila, the results have been good.

Yes, he left the junior college for a 4-year school after one year, mostly for the right reasons but partially because baseball didn't go as well as he'd hoped. And if baseball were to fall out of the picture at his present school, I'm guessing he'd leave.

But what happens if a pro scout really likes him? What happens if he meets the right girl? Or the wrong one? What happens if we hit the lottery?

He has goals, just like all of us. But as circumstances changes, so, too, do the goals. Everything "fits" right now. But circumstances can change that "fit."

The thing we parents know is that the desired result is a complete puzzle, a degree. Who says we won't have to go through a couple with a missing piece before we can find one to complete?

I've tried my best to stay out of this thread...and have actually not posted for awhile.

Here's my take on this....using just my own son for an example.

When he was selecting choices for college last fall, he was the one to make the final decision based on input from his dad and I, using pro's and con's. We were convinced of the fact we'd found the right "fit."

Did he pick it for baseball....sure....did he really think about the academic side, not terribly as he doesn't truly know what he wants to do with his life, and knew he'd need his basics first.

He was absolutely elated....had a great summer....was ready to meet the world.

Well, he discovered a great big world outside of our small community. The vast differences in people, the exposure to things he does not participate in, and the injury brought about a change in thinking ...

(There were and are some other things he has dealt with...which were not expected..cannot elaborate on those..)

Having sustained an injury, which is not career ending by the way, but indeed a bump in the road calculated into the equation.

So having other elements to contend with on a personal note (those I won't put on a message board)...I can only say "things do change" and he's coming home at semester....to attend the Junior college locally.

That coach has already called him telling him he can play for them if his arm is better, so hope prevails...as it usually does...

He will continue to rehab and we are getting another doctor's opinion in December.

Last year, did we follow everything to a tee, when making choices, taking visits, weighing whether or not he liked the school per se, like...can he see himself there if no ball, does he like the location, etc, etc?

Well, yes....we (or he) did....but even though the injury was not the only component in making this decision, my son decided this was in his best interest...it's his future....he did have a heart to heart with the coach....it was not the coach's decision for him to leave.

Does he see himself on a field somewhere?

Indeed...we've only changed courses..he will anchor somewhere...I'll keep you posted..

Good luck to your son BK. Challenges and changes can be tough on anyone, but especially a young man who thought he had everything planned out. I'm sure he will have learned a life lesson from the situation that will benefit him down the road. No matter how well we plan, prepare or investigate, there can always be bumps in the road.

lafmom...thank you...