Goals & Expectations

Infield08,
IMO, that is a really fine post!!!
I do think it is quite understandable that many folks start with "DI" as the vision, the only vision. It seems understandable because DI gets all the media publicity whether it is TV/newspaper/ESPN, etc. I would venture that ESPN's coverage of the CWS and college baseball, combined with the influence of "trophy children" will serve to increase those DI aspirations.
I will be honest and state that when our daughter got an athletic scholarship to Michigan, it generated a lot more publicity than our son getting some academic money to Trinity. Through experience, we learned the real benefits of DIII academics and athletics as well as some of the issues those can present at the DI level. Normally, there would not be any way to use those to assist others. That is one reason why
I think the HSBBW is terrific. It helps provide visibility to DIII/DII/NAIA and Juco and also helps parents and players realize how great they really are. It helps many appreciate others go through similar experiences. It helps even others realize there aren't enough DI spots for every player, even some that belong there.
Great post!! I hope it does help many and receive a lot of reads. What you have described is very important because it is the real world.

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I think the HSBBW is terrific. It helps provide visibility to DIII/DII/NAIA and Juco and also helps parents and players realize how great they really are.

Yes indeed! It has most definitely opened my eyes in a very positive way.

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"trophy children"

Infielddad, I don't know if you just created that phrase or not.... I've only heard of "trophy wives", but what a statement "trophy children" makes! A sad perspective on parenting.

Your insight is wonderful. When we set our expectations for a particular thing in life, the danger comes not only in not attaining that and possibly feeling like a failure, but that you may miss other wonderful opportunities on the way. It's wonderful to set goals and to work to achieve those, but understanding that there can be many paths to obtaining those goals is a much happier way of life IMO.

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Originally posted by lafmom:
When we set our expectations for a particular thing in life....

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Originally posted by lafmom:
It's wonderful to set goals and to work to achieve those....

I think parents need to be open with little Jimmy and make sure they understand the difference between the two.

The reference to "trophy children" is not mine.
A few months back I was reading an article written about college admissions. It primarily focused on the Ivy's Duke, Stanford and similar schools. Talked about the extent that some parents have their children extend themselves and do things they would not otherwise do so the child can present as being a "trophy child" with the virtues and extracurricular efforts that get rewarded.
It was very interesting because it talked about how these really aren't the true children but it is the way they are presented to achieve a very high reward. Many of the extracurricular items aren't things the child would otherwise do except for the "advantage" it provides in the college application process. Also tried to show how the children never do them again, after admission to college.
The article provided a very, to me, disturbing analogy why there is so much corruption and deception in business. Children are "taught"/influenced at an early age that getting something you want justifies presenting yourself as someone you really aren't. That carries over into business in later years with false resumes, etc.
The term "trophy child" was a description of the way some view/project their child in seeking admittance to the college/university, and in obtaining/providing other benefits the parent thinks is "right" for them, or which their child deserves.

Interesting thoughts infielddad... if you come across that article, I'd love to know what publication it was in to be able to read it. I would imagine that our children must feel like such a failure if they've had to pretend to be something they're not to meet the standards expected by their parents. Instead of being loved for who they are, they're special for pretending to be someone else..... that would be a very sad home I think.

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I had a D1-only mindset myself until a few months ago and am thankful that my perspective has changed, thanks to many of the insightful comments made on this site. I hope that parents of younger players who read this thread will encourage their sons to remain open-minded about their options so they will not be devastated if they do not receive that coveted offer one day.

On any April Saturday I could take you to 4 D2 games and 4 D1 games in Florida, without telling you what school we were at and I doubt you could tell the difference. Same attendence, same quality of baseball. In fact one or two D2 programs here could whip a bunch of D1's, probably top 40 teams, over the season.

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It helps even others realize there aren't enough DI spots for every player, even some that belong there.

Thank you for saying that, I felt like I have been posting that into a hollow well for three years now...........

Not many freshman play at the top D1's across the country.

I think you can only fully apreciate that after you've been through the process.

The big schools have huge media machines training journalist just like the ballplayers are learning their skill.

And the huge alumni followings of those big schools provide an audience for the programs, too.

An opporunity to play college baseball anywhere is admired by many that don't get that.

Pleas look at your favorite Big Time D1's roster to see how many JUCO transfer's there are.

It is by far the least risky entry into those programs.

And, most of the JUCO's provide nearly full rides because they are allowed 24 not the 11.7 limitation that the big schools have.

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I would imagine that our children must feel like such a failure if they've had to pretend to be something they're not to meet the standards expected by their parents. Instead of being loved for who they are, they're special for pretending to be someone else..... that would be a very sad home I think.

lafmom,
Here is the article I referenced.

www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/08/20/CMG54K5H1S1.DTL

Great thread! Hard to read it w/o re-thinking my own behavior and the thoughts/motives that compelled it.

Early on, my oldest thought he wanted to play college ball...that was about IT for his "dream," just to go someplace where he could continue to play ball. Later, he added the notion of doing it in Florida. Still later, he decided he wanted a reasonable opportunity to continue as a "two-way player" (which we presumed left a D1 program out of the equation). So, over 95% of our efforts were directed at D2, NAIA and Jucos in FL...the other 5% (or, less) was spent on local schools of those same class.

Anyway, the point is, his thoughts on the matter (his "dream," if you will) continued to evolve, right up until the time he signed his NLI this week...at a local D1! Right now, he seems happy as a clam with his choice...go figure! It did make a BIG difference to him when they offered that they consider him a legitimate two-way candidate.

kb2610-
Congratulations to your son!
Which school might we see him at in the future?

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he seems happy as a clam with his choice

and what else matters? Congrats!

Great article InfieldDad... thank you for sharing that. My daughter is an '08 and I had no idea of the numbers she'll be competing against for admission to a school. Perhaps I'd better have her to add ballet right now, hire a college prep guy, and increase those community service hours. Just kidding of course!

Another phrase I liked in the article (besides the trophy kids) was "bumper sticker prestige". It's just important that we all take time to reflect in life on what's important... if your child desires and is capable of going to an Ivy school, that's great, if you desire and are able to buy a luxury automobile and still be able to feed your family... you're financially blessed, if you married the salt of the earth and she happens to look like Christie Brinkley.. you're extra lucky I suppose. However, we all too often use those external things to help build us up internally. The "bumper sticker prestige" will never leave a smile on our faces when we leave this world.

Enough of my sermon for the day... sorry! Life really is so much better when you follow your heart and if that's a presitigious Ivy to play baseball or it's a tiny DIII in the middle of nowehere that "fits" you perfectly, that's what matters. My son is a RS freshman at a NAIA and if we're blessed enough that things continue as they have, there won't be a happier momma or a happier student athelete upon graduation.

Life's about being real and enjoying your choices or it should be. Thanks for giving us a lot to think about today Infield08.

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Another phrase I liked in the article (besides the trophy kids) was "bumper sticker prestige". It's just important that we all take time to reflect in life on what's important... if your child desires and is capable of going to an Ivy school, that's great, if you desire and are able to buy a luxury automobile and still be able to feed your family... you're financially blessed, if you married the salt of the earth and she happens to look like Christie Brinkley.. you're extra lucky I suppose. However, we all too often use those external things to help build us up internally. The "bumper sticker prestige" will never leave a smile on our faces when we leave this world.

lafmom - I simply loved your entire post. These are the principles I believe in as well. Mind you, if I win the lottery tomorrow, I'll probably get a new Corvette

Seriously, it ain't about the money as pbonesteele said in another thread or the prestige. The only thing that matters, is are you happy with your own choices. If the answer is yes, then nobody on earth can top that choice.

infielddad should have the title of hsbbweb hall of famer placed next to his name like OPP. If I were a kid right now, wanting to play in college, I would go read all of his previous posts. Where there is desire, and some modicum of talent - not overwhelming talent, there is an ideal place for each kid out there who wants it bad enough.

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Mind you, if I win the lottery tomorrow, I'll probably get a new Corvette

And CD, because I know you.... I know it wouldn't be to impress a single soul, but simply because of the joy it would bring you!

I agree about InfieldDad.... he's a smart one!

lafmom - your post made me think of the following song:

Simple Man
Lynyrd Skynyrd

Mama told me when I was young
Come sit beside me, my only son
And listen closely to what I say.
And if you do this
It will help you some sunny day.
Take your time... Don't live too fast,
Troubles will come and they will pass.
Go find the woman and you'll find love,
And don't forget son,
There is someone up above.

(Chorus)
And be a simple kind of man.
Be something you love and understand.
Be a simple kind of man.
Won't you do this for me son,
If you can?

Forget your lust for the rich man's gold
All that you need is in your soul,
And you can do this if you try.
All that I want for you my son,
Is to be satisfied.

Boy, don't you worry... you'll find yourself.
Follow you heart and nothing else.
And you can do this if you try.
All I want for you my son,
Is to be satisfied.

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Originally posted by lafmom:

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Mind you, if I win the lottery tomorrow, I'll probably get a new Corvette

And CD, because I know you.... I know it wouldn't be to impress a single soul, but simply because of the joy it would bring you!

I agree about InfieldDad.... he's a smart one!

Vettes, and the like, are just flat more fun to drive...

Goals and Expectations....

I'd like to share with everyone what I tell the boys who play in our summer program about what I think their goal in baseball should be. It doesn't mean I'm right, it's only a thought to ponder.

I tell the boys this: "If baseball helps get you into college when you wouldn't have otherwise continued your education, or it helps you get into a better college than you'd have been able to attend without baseball; you've gotten everything out of the game that you could ever ask of it. If you're one of the very fortunate few who get to play beyond college, that is icing on the cake and a wonderful bonus."

That's what I believe, and hope its a worthy and realistic goal for others.

CD and lafmom, those comments are really kind, generous and truly appreciated. Thank you!!
However, if you really knew me, you would likely reconsider.....

CD - That's a great song! Very nice lyrics!!

InfieldDad - No need to be humble. You are appreciated around here!

For those who are interested...it was published in our local newspaper this week:

Our son, Robert J. ("Joe") Baumgartner, a senior at Francis Howell High School in St. Charles, Missouri, last week signed his NLI to attend St. Louis University (Go Billikens!!)

Now, if I can only figure our how to update my profile with the avatar image of the "Billiken," I'll be all set!!!

Test to see if the avatar shows itself...How does this look?

The avatar looks great!

Huge congrats to your son and your family kb2610

Great post infield08 and followup by others I hope a lot of parents read these honest comments and great advice.....

Personnally I think if a student athlete has the opportunity to play past High School at any level, NAIA, DI, DII, DIII, JUCO, etc he/she should celebrate in the accomplishment and know that each and every one of them qualify to be called: college athletes.......

If the athelete's career ends at High School he should celebrate the fact that he acheived that level of play, and if he needs a reality check then look back and remember those Freshman players that dreamed of playing HS ball only to be cut, they never acheived that dream.....................

We need to bring it down to the basic level of understanding......playing at any level is a gift and an accomplishment..............

A player's physical ability/build, although genetic, is only as good as the player's own will, desire and passion to improve no amount of parental involvment, lessons or exposure can elevate that to a higher level.

Parents should be proud of their children but not place the value of their childern's performance as an indicator of their own selfworth. Let the players play the game, let the players enjoy the thrill of the victory, let the player understand the feeling of defeat and let the parents lend the ear when needed and praise when deserved and appreciate that they are doing this for themselves and for their team..........

I read these posts a lot. We have looked at DI, DII and DIII. DI's in state are roughly 18,000. DII's vary, then the DIII's are anywhere from 26,000 to 48,000. D3's say sure, no problem you can play etc etc. Maybe give you 7,000 in academic money. That seems like a hefty price tag still. My thoughts are unless the D3 is some fabulous school why would you go there? The starting salaries and placement aren't any different. Maybe I am missing something but it looks like you could be in effect paying 10,000 a year more just to be going to a school where you can play baseball.

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Originally posted by Baller26:
Maybe I am missing something but.....

I don't think you are. We went through the same discussion in our house last year.

A DIII may not give athletic money, but they give other kinds of aid which might actually amount to more than what a player is receiving through athletic scholarship and package at another level of school. The DIIIs near us are pricey too, but just as with DIs, DIIs, or NAIA, much depends on the individual student and the school

Take a student with an ACT of 31 and above 4.0 GPA.... she/he's going to get money anywhere outside of athletics. It may not cost them anymore to go to a DIII as opposed to another level.

If you have a 4.0 and 31 you should be able to go where ever you like and pay hardly anything. I have a daughter like that but my son is not. He isn't dumb but also not a 4.0. Truth is very few kids have numbers like that. More kids are like a 3.0 and a 22. If thats the case D3's are real expensive.

Baller, Just for the record, NEITHER one of my kids has those scores. I used an example of one of my daughter's friends.

However, my son considered several schools this summer after transferring from JUCO. One was a DIII where he could have received two scholarships that added to the same amount of money that he's receiving at an expensive NAIA school for baseball. Now, we never got far enough to look at the rest of the funding, student work study, student loan, etc., but I'm assuming that would have balanced out fairly equally. My point is that a player shouldn't avoid checking into a DIII just because of fear of the lack of athletic scholarships. Sometimes it will balance out. Just hate for someone to miss a great opportunity because they were afraid to check into it.

Oh I agree that you should look into them and we have. They throw the numbers around and I really wonder. I also look at student loans and really don't consider that as money. Those funds need repaid in the future. When a school says oh we are 35,000 but we will give you say 7,000 in academic money and 10,000 is student loans which brings it down to 18,000 I look at that as creative accounting. That really means it costs 28,000 a year of which we will defer 10,000 until later but you still owe it. Actually I sat through meeting with 2 D3's so far and actually feel like I am listening to a sales pitch where they are recruiting potential students and they are using baseball as the bait.

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We have looked at DI, DII and DIII. DI's in state are roughly 18,000. DII's vary, then the DIII's are anywhere from 26,000 to 48,000.

baller, I can only speak from our experience. Our son went DIII and graduated in 4 years. Many of his friends went to State universities and colleges in CA. None that I know that played a sport were able to graduate in 4. Most in 5, one in 6. When you start adding extra years, the costs do equalize.