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On a different thread, TX Husker provided a link to a really good article on youth baseball injuries.

quote:

Great read in the NYTimes...should be required reading for youth coaches and parents of young pitchers. Why have pitch counts for young pitchers? To protect them from their parents, their coaches and themselves.

In 1999, with $150,000 in financing and sponsorship by USA Baseball, Andrews and Fleisig began the first in a series of studies on the interlocking relationships between pitch count, pitch type, arm fatigue and pain. That year they collected data from 476 Alabama youth-league pitchers between the ages of 9 and 14. Their findings:

-over the course of the season, more than half of the pitchers experienced shoulder or elbow pain.

-for each increment of 25 pitches thrown after 50 pitches, the percentage of pitchers experiencing pain increased as fatigue set in.

-those who threw curveballs were 52 percent more likely to feel shoulder pain.

-those who threw sliders were 86 percent more likely to endure elbow pain.

-by the age of 20, a baseball player who has regularly pitched past the point of fatigue is 36 times as likely to need elbow or shoulder surgery as one who has not.

As for Alden, I was wondering if his coaches/parents learned anything. Based on the last paragraph, I don't think so...after a year off due to surgery, in his 1st return to the mound, in a practice game, Alden pitched six innings. Something tells me he'll be seeing Dr. Andrews again (assuming that's still possible under Obama's health plan but that's another topic).

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08...azine&pagewanted=all



That other thread ended up focusing on the Obama health plan. I'd like to have this one focus on the article itself.

Essentially, Dr. Andrews and his team performed what appears to be a really solid study on the impact of pitching on youth league pitchers. Upon presenting those findings to the various youth baseball organizing bodies, they were met with a shrug - other than Little League. Little League implemented a watered down version of the recommendations.

A couple of thoughts:

1) Given a lack of better data, why would the other youth baseball organizations ignore this study? In my opinion, there is enough information to show that children are being overused and suffering injuries as a result. Dr. Andrews is not saying don't throw - instead he is saying don't pitch so much and learn how to throw pitches properly. To me it seems that the other youth baseball organizations are more interested in winning than in providing an environment where players can learn to play the game.

2) Little League is not without blame. It really seems to me that they have significantly watered down the recommendations - especially those related to the end of year televised event. While it would change the nature of the competition to have stricter rules, in that the teams with deeper pitching would be more likely to win, it would not, in my opinion, significantly lessen the value of the experience for the teams to need more pitchers.
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Kids don't throw enough and long toss enough. When I was a kid, I threw all day whether it was rocks( which was my object of choice to heave as far as I could throw them), whiffleballs or sponge balls and probably threw hundreds of curveballs, sliders and screwballs wrong but the most I ever suffered as a kid was a sore muscles by overdoing it. If I counted pitches, it probably was around 200+ on a given day switching from playing hardball to whiffleball or some other form of ball in the same day. Since we played all day, We never thought much about it. When I was sore, I'd ease off for a few days until the soreness went away and I was fine.
Even though baseball was the only organized sport I played, I played other sports in-season and out of season as well so I didn't just play one sport year-round.


Too many kids today don't even play a game of catch or play by themselves without adults on local ballfields on their own so they probably never pick up a ball, then mom or dad signs them up for LL & travel, then all of a sudden, they're pitching on 3-4 teams and pitching year round. Then they go on one-size-fits-all pitch counts and they never build up arm strength. That's the problem.
Last edited by zombywoof
I don't disagree with the video game generation argument, Zomby. More throwing/long tossing is good. I think the NYT story was more focused on pitching specifically.

Almost all the "main" pitchers on my son's teams pitch far more now than any of the pitchers did on my teams when I was a kid. That was true when he was 8-9, still true now that he's 16. The pitchers are pitching far more than is good for them. If kids are pitching too much, you have to regulate them somehow for their own good. What would you suggest? It's clearly needed to protect the kids from themselves, their coaches and their parents. Heck, the kid in the article threw 6 innings in a practice game in his first outing after surgery. Clearly they don't get it.

PS. Thanks for saving the topic 08Dad!
Last edited by Tx-Husker
I would suggest players not spreading themselves thin and playing for multiple teams and stick to one team. For example, If American Legion is the primary league in a given area for HS ballplayers in the summer, play Legion, but don't play for another travel team as well. Maybe non-picthers can get away with it but pitching for more than one team is too much. Especially if the pitcher is in high demand and both coaches want to use that pitcher. By eliminating that extra team, you cut down on the overuse. Then if the player wants to showcase, then he should showcase where there are no conflicts with the team.

A lot of the responsibility falls on the player and/or the parent to make sure the kids don't burn out. If not, then it doesn't matter.
Yeah, I agree zomby. It really is the responsibility of the parents and coaches. If a kid is playing more in more than one organization or more than one league, then none of the recommendations are of any use. I know for my son, he has pitched in many a tournament where he did not come close to the innings allowed just because of the overuse issue.

It is up to the coaches and parents to regulate this. In this day and age, there is no excuse for not knowing any better. I really don't think we need to be regulated to death. Coaches, just use common sense.
quote:
short of having a law about pitch counts, there will always be kids over used. the better the kid the more they are over used.


I agree with that. But I don't think it's too much to ask for some clear direction for parents to go by. Enforcement is a parent's responsibility ... especially if they let Junior play on multiple teams. But how is a parent to know how much is too much? You have some "professional" coaches saying the 11-12 year olds are ok to throw certain types of curveballs, others that say FB/Chg only. Just as many opinions come on pitch counts (or if they should even be used). What's a parent to know/do...who are they to trust if the so called "experts" can't come to a common starting point on direction?
I grew up in the throw all day play every day generation as well.

Looking back on it, baseball had a season - we played it from Feb / March through Sept / October (I lived in CA). Football then basketball then gave us a break until the next season. We also swam nearly everyday - giving us yet another form of working out. And lastly, we had horses to feed, vegetables to hoe, and wood to saw.

The other thing I remember are two friends - Randy and Mike. Both were great pitchers in Little league and done by the time they were 13 or 14 with "little league elbow". In talking to Randy a few years ago, he says he would have had Tommy John surgery if it existed at the time (Tommy was a White Sox pitcher when I was that age). I don't know for sure what happened to Mike as he moved away.

The point is that injuries happened back then too - throwing more isn't the only cure for what causes injuries today.
Last edited by 08Dad

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