Good reason for ejection?

i believe the coach, you, and the pitcher are suspended for the next game ... maybe more



next time zip it

First of all there are guys out there that have no business on a field. Was this guy one, who knows, that's for a discussion of somebody that was there.

Your first complaint is he called a strike on what you believe to be a check swing. OK, that happens all the time. The crowd asks him to get help. This is expressly forbidden by the rules. He can check on a ball but once a strike is called it's final.

Your next complaint is the confining of your coach. First how much chirping preceded the confinment? Many times what is being said, not to the ump but really to the ump, may make a difference to what happens to him next.
Your third complaint is the PU is making him go in the dugoiut that he got confined to. This isn't unreasonable to ask. If he is told to be in the dugout and he is halfway out then he isn't complying with directions.
Your last complaint is the manager and you both got dumped.
If you yak enough it makes you go away. I can't tell if you have legitament complaints or not. Or if the PU was truly horrible. Either way, even if he is the worst you have ever seen he still doesn't need constant barbs all game long. This isn't going to make him any better and it only serves to make him mad and causes him to dump people. Hmmmm, I believe that is what happened.
I know this sounds fairly sarcastic but the way the OP is presented it makes it hard not to be. Remember that umpires are human and make mistakes. There some that are not good. There are others that are very good. Either way many times you aren't going to agree with what he does. Riding him will serve no good purpose.

Couple of weeks ago, my dad (60 and UIC for many years) was ejected from grandson's LL game because he told the President(not the umpire) if they continued to break LL rules (decided to play a 11-12 championship game with drop 3rd strike) he would contact Williamsport. Prez was a guy who coached with us for years and knew the rules. Not only did Pop get the boot (never addressing blue) but had the police called as he was sitting in the parking lot. Blue said he "went home and changed clothes, came back and threatened her". Umm-Gramps lives 45 minutes away. Not only that--he was told not to come back or he would jeapardize the team. Missed grandson' first walk off because of it. And never did anything wrong.

What age group?

I have run into umps like that many times. In 15 years as a coach I have never been removed from a game. If blue has a short fuse I believe the coach needs to adjust accordingly and let the game play. As in everything else there are good ones and bad ones. It is just part of it. Umps also have good days and bad days just like us. Whenever I see a coach get booted he usually deserves it and almost always looks like a knucklhead in the process.
Not to say I am an angel coach, I have rode a lot of umps right to their limit. But when blue says "one more word coach" I back off and let the game play.

As far as you (a fan) getting booted for that comment, I think its bush on the umps part.

An Ump should never ever say "One more word..."

As for the OP, assuming there isn't something we don't know, an Ump should never instigate a provocation, i.e.:

"a pitcher we rarely use came in and was throwing wild and hit the umpire a couple of times (unintenionally), the umpire then said since he was hitting him too many times he would eject him. "

and

"our coach was leaning on the doorway to the field, which is pretty much in the dugout but the umpire said "hey i said in the dugout!" our coach then backed up, umpire says "how about behind the fence"

In the first case, he's really asking for a coach to say something because any good coach would feel he needs to protect his player. In the second, the ump is also in the wrong. If the coaches are chirping, deal with that and that alone. Directing specifically where a coach can and cannot stand in a dugout is beyond the scope and uncalled for, especially if those are the words he used.

Call the game and don't start fights. Some umps seem to think the game is all about them and think they can be snarky.

As for the check swing, the ump is in the right as another MST mentioned.

(Just so everything's clear, all I'm saying it's one thing for an Umpire to maintain control, it's another thing for an Umpire to start fights with snarky comments and throw his weight around - that's just unprofessional.)

quote:

An Ump should never ever say "One more word..."

huh?

Most umps will give a coach an indication that he is at his limit. I'm not talking MLB here.
They do it in a variety of ways. Some say "thats enough" some say "back to your duggout", some just turn their back and walk away..etc..etc...From high school on down that is what happens. I could not comment on college and above because I have not coached it nor have I been privledge to the interaction between the coaches and umpires.

quote:

"a pitcher we rarely use came in and was throwing wild and hit the umpire a couple of times (unintenionally), the umpire then said since he was hitting him too many times he would eject him. "

A little off the subject here, but how in the world is it the pitchers fault if the ump gets hit a few times? If its a foul tip (no fault) otherwise its the catchers fault!

If your driving down the interstate and get pulled over and the policeman says you were doing 80 when you know you were doing 70, do you yell at him or negotiate..... I bet both the Ump and Coach/Players/Fans let a situation get out of control

Z-Dad is correct, an ump should never say, " not another word." Thereason is no matter what the coach says, and he will say something, theump has to toss him. Whether it's a smart comment or sorry about that, he has to go. An ump should say something along the lines of, "That's enough" "Let's play" or "We're done here." Something that gives him some leeway to control the game withoutan unnecessary ejection.

quote:

Originally posted by Z-Dad:
An Ump should never ever say "One more word..."

As for the OP, assuming there isn't something we don't know, an Ump should never instigate a provocation, i.e.:

"a pitcher we rarely use came in and was throwing wild and hit the umpire a couple of times (unintenionally), the umpire then said since he was hitting him too many times he would eject him. "

and

"our coach was leaning on the doorway to the field, which is pretty much in the dugout but the umpire said "hey i said in the dugout!" our coach then backed up, umpire says "how about behind the fence"

In the first case, he's really asking for a coach to say something because any good coach would feel he needs to protect his player. In the second, the ump is also in the wrong. If the coaches are chirping, deal with that and that alone. Directing specifically where a coach can and cannot stand in a dugout is beyond the scope and uncalled for, especially if those are the words he used.

Call the game and don't start fights. Some umps seem to think the game is all about them and think they can be snarky.

As for the check swing, the ump is in the right as another MST mentioned.

(Just so everything's clear, all I'm saying it's one thing for an Umpire to maintain control, it's another thing for an Umpire to start fights with snarky comments and throw his weight around - that's just unprofessional.)

quote:

an ump should never say, " not another word

I do know of a coach who got tossed for saying something like my bad after an ump said the same thing - I wasnt there so I dont know if it was sarcastic or not.

I do like the advice of the ump just saying "lets play ball" and leaving it there.

I have noticed an ump or two whose fuse is a bit short once we started summer ball....its been very hot and even in the shade I have seen my patience go down. I talked to a dad a week or so back and he told me this was his son's last chance and he didnt want anything to interfere with it - we all need to mellow a bit and just "lets play ball"

This might take a bit to sort out, but lets get some obvious business out of the way first. Like MST has said there are umpires out there who do not belong doing the game. We all know it and we all wish it wasnt so.........

Was he horrible?.....again I wasn't there and I cant say, but clearly he handled a number of items in ways I would not suggest were correct....

One thing I would like to know the level of baseball we are talking about....but not knowing that I will attempt to sort through my thoughts.....

quote:

First a player checked his swing but he said otherwise, so a parent was like can you get some help blue he didnt go.. check with the field ump blue, the umpire then turned around warned both coaches and the parents to shut up or they would be going home.

First off, as you have been told previously, only a call of Ball can be checked. A called strike is a strike......you, your coaches and your fans did not know this basic rule of baseball....The umpire was correct....

Now depending on how the coaches and fans complained about their wrong understanding of the checked swing appeal, I can see the umpire warning the coaches about it.....I can not however support him telling anyone to shut up or addessing fans..... thats just not professional at all...

I will add one thought here.....once a team, or coach shows an umpire that their basic rules knowledge is lacking by arguing a wrong situation, like your checked swing situation, the hands are part of the bat or ties go to the runner myths, umpire rarely give you much credence from that point on.........( I have been guilty of this).....and its one reason I don't do much youth baseball anymore...this is to prevalent there....

quote:

Then our coach asked a question he didnt like so he confined him to the dugout.

You dont state the question, so I cant help out here.....must have been something the umpire felt was out of line as restricting to the dugout is just before ejection....

Again my thoughts.....Restriction to the dugout is a HS rule. It is for an offense that in the past was an ejection offense, but now the umpire can use his judgment and restrict an offender to the dugout to keep them in the game....

I dont like restricting coaches to the dugout. I feel if you have done enough to get restricted you dont need to hang around.........now at that,. I do not have a very quick trigger, I am not known for ejections......I do everyhting I can to keep a coach in the game, until they prove to me they can not remain......

quote:

Later a pitcher we rarely use came in and was throwing wild and hit the umpire a couple of times (unintenionally), the umpire then said since he was hitting him too many times he would eject him.

The Combination of a wild pitcher and a catcher who isnt catching a ball can make an Umpire wonder if these are intentional.........if in his judgment they are someone is gone.....if not your coach had better be doing some damage control to make sure he doesnt feel that way.......

The only thing I can fault this umpire is his approach....I dont threaten ejection....not a good approach.....either eject or not....if its just poor level of play, then suck it up, use your gear and get through it......

quote:

Later, our coach was leaning on the doorway to the field, which is pretty much in the dugout but the umpire said "hey i said in the dugout!" our coach then backed up, umpire says "how about behind the fence" our coach then fires a comment "blue if thats all your worried about right now i dont know where your head is"

In the dugout means in the dugout....what part of this is unclear......again I believe this just proves that if you need to eject, better do it in the first place...

quote:

so the ump ejects him, so our team gave him a standing O and i said "hey that aint you coach dont worry" So the ump EJECTS ME...

"blue if thats all your worried about right now i dont know where your head is"

thats enough to get the thumb....if a coach does not know that using "you or your" is an instant ejection he has no sense coaching higher level baseball......

you were collateral damage.....in higher baseball only the head coach argues, if any one else hops in on ejection situation, they get dumped too........
smart off and you get in the mix.......

You asked for comments and here is my wrap up.......

I wasnt there so I cant relate both sides of the story...clearly I think he did some things wrong, but I can hear his side through your words.....the truth is somewhere in the middle......

I bet if we asked him this is what he would write....

So last night I umpired a game with a HORRIBLE team, I know that therm is used loosley but this team was... beyond words. This might be a long story but please read. First I called a strike on a player who thought he checked his swing but he thought otherwise, so the coach/team/parents were like can you get some help blue he didnt go.. check with the field ump blue,

Can you believe they didnt know you cant appeal a called strike?

I then turned around warned both coaches and the parents to shut up or they would be going home.

Then thier coach couldnt let it go and asked a question I didnt like so I confined him to the dugout.

Later they put in a pitcher they rarely use and was throwing wild and hit he me a couple of times (I think intenionally), I then said since he was hitting me too many times I would eject him.

Later, the coach who was restricted was leaning on the doorway to the field, which is pretty much out of the dugout and I said "get back in the dugout!" the coach then backed up, and said "how about behind the fence"

The he fires a comment "blue if thats all your worried about right now i dont know where your head is"

So I ejected him,

the team gave him a standing O and one smartaleck said "hey that aint you coach dont worry" So I dumped him too..

Most trained umpires would tell this umpire he should have ejected this coach earlier......

always two sides to a story........could this have been handled better........absolutely........

just my .02.

I am amused that you profess shock at being tossed for being a smartazz (making a personal remark, which would get you tossed even if it were not in the context of all the rest you describe) right after your coach was dumped. You obviously wanted to join him in the parking lot, so why the whine?

For the record, I agree with the posters here that the ejections are warranted. Even if the Ump is fanning the flames you can't expect not to get tossed for those comments.

In fact I'd probably argue you should purposely get yourself tossed in some situations to protect your team.

If in the above case the Ump is completely in the wrong by heckling or harrassing the pitcher and players and not amenable to discussion, you are in a bad situation no matter what. I think several coaches would say it's probably best to get yourself tossed in a way that protects your players and let's you know you are watching out for them. Ump may not be there next time but you have to deal with your team everytime. Make your ejection worthwhile at least, and not for a silly rebuttal like in the OP sitch.

Which goes back to my point that Umps can't be instigators. The coolest head in the ballpark should be the Ump.

to piaa_ump, we are playing in a highschool summer travel league. But what i want to know is that i guess i cant suppourt my coach, i didnt even want to get ejected and didnt want the umpire to hear me. The question my coach asked the umpire is unknown to me because i was out standing at short and they were talking near home plate talking in a low voice. and to LonBlue67 i dont care what you have to say i didnt ask for negative opinions, i didnt want to get tossed, and how is it a personal remark? I made no notion and said nothing to or about the ump. Getting tossed from this game put me near being cut from my hs team next year until our coach realized how idiotic the situation was so tell me, WHY would i want to get ejected??

and were not bad were 11-1.

I assumed that you were a parent watching the game. That makes your toss simple.
When a player says,"Hey that aint you coach dont worry" you have just said the coach is fine and the umpire is an idiot and totally out of line. Never mind that the coach and players have spent the game chirping and complaining, the ump is flat wrong.
I again say it may be as you say and he was horrible but when you start a post that way it sets off warning bells.

You asked in your OP "if you did anything wrong."


and NOW you say you "didn't ask for negative opinions."



Im sorry, the Real World(tm) doesn't work that way. Don't like dissenting opinions? Don't ask.

Shantzee, your profile says you are a coach...is that true...Im confused

catcher09, it says i learned about hsbaseballweb from a coach. I play im 15.

Shantzee:
Here is a little Baseball 101.
a. If your coach gets tossed, and maybe he wanted to, that's his business.
B. It's NEVER a player's business to get tossed. Just PLAY (and enjoy it).
C. You'll get umps of every flavor throughout the years... they are people, if you don't agree with them, ignore them, but don't let them get you off your game.
D. Play hard and have fun every day on the diamond.
Good luck to you.