Here is an interesting link to the NCAA graduation rates for each school.
Graduation Rates
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A survey of the the data reminds me ...
Despite all the concern about the graduation rates of baseball players (Partial $)...Football rates are roughly similar....and basketball (full $) graduation rates are in many cases half those of baseball. Only fuels the view that baseball is a scapegoat.
44
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A survey of the the data reminds me ...
Despite all the concern about the graduation rates of baseball players (Partial $)...Football rates are roughly similar....and basketball (full $) graduation rates are in many cases half those of baseball. Only fuels the view that baseball is a scapegoat.
44.
the ncaa rates are a bit hard to decipher ...
I could care less if my chosen school graduated 96% if my student is one of the 4% not graduated
my view is that the ONLY graduation rate that really counts to a player & parent is YOUR "student athlete's" graduation rate
I could care less if my chosen school graduated 96% if my student is one of the 4% not graduated
my view is that the ONLY graduation rate that really counts to a player & parent is YOUR "student athlete's" graduation rate
Interesting to compare how many freshman entered (for baseball)the program and actually graduated. I did a sampling for baseball, took a few schools who do not have revolving doors vs. known schools that do. The freshman graduation rate was much higher in the non revolving door schools. If this is true, I can see why they placed the transfer rule into effect for baseball.
IMO, from my understanding from reading, this info is based upon graduation in 4 years, not 5. In football, you will find many players are given 5 years (redshirt) to complete, whereas redshirting is not as common in baseball so therefore the conclusion might be that 4 year graduation rate for baseball SHOULD be better than in football. I am not sure about drawing conclusions with other sports. Does basketball award lots of redshirts?
I may be wrong on this, but that's my assumption.
IMO, from my understanding from reading, this info is based upon graduation in 4 years, not 5. In football, you will find many players are given 5 years (redshirt) to complete, whereas redshirting is not as common in baseball so therefore the conclusion might be that 4 year graduation rate for baseball SHOULD be better than in football. I am not sure about drawing conclusions with other sports. Does basketball award lots of redshirts?
I may be wrong on this, but that's my assumption.
quote:Originally posted by Bee>:
the ncaa rates are a bit hard to decipher ...
I could care less if my chosen school graduated 96% if my student is one of the 4% not graduated
my view is that the ONLY graduation rate that really counts to a player & parent is YOUR "student athlete's" graduation rate
I am with you on this one, and have told son, YOU are going to graduate!
a great question during recruiting is -
"what kind of support can we expect in addition to 'MLB tuition plan' if drafted and return to complete school later?"
"what kind of support can we expect if undrafted/eligibility used up and 5th yr required to graduate?"
"what kind of support can we expect in addition to 'MLB tuition plan' if drafted and return to complete school later?"
"what kind of support can we expect if undrafted/eligibility used up and 5th yr required to graduate?"
I assume that these rates reflect those who graduate in 4 years and may be low because a high percentage take a lighter load and need an extra year to grduate. I am surprised how many of my sons seniors from last year are still at college taking 1 or 2 courses in a 5th year. JC transfers also aften don't graduate in their senior year. When looking at stats/data it is important to know the perameters. It was noted that the rates only included players who get BB money. Some of the smat guys might have mostly academic money.
quote:Originally posted by Bee>:
a great question during recruiting is -
"what kind of support can we expect in addition to 'MLB tuition plan' if drafted and return to complete school later?"
"what kind of support can we expect if undrafted/eligibility used up and 5th yr required to graduate?"
I beleive that many programs will do all they can to help support their former players to graduate. The reason being, they want their players to graduate from their school which increases graduation rates. At many schools the athletic departments work hard at raising money to help, BUT do give a time limit on giving out that help (if it is needed). I have a friend whose son had that option but it expired and they didn't realize it had to be done within a certain time period. Each school may be different. I would think, but not sure there is more emphasis on helping those that entered as freshman than those that came in as transfers?
That is a VERY good question to ask at recruiting time. If MLB gives me no money to finish school, how can you help in assisting me to graduate?
The data represents entering freshmen in 2000 and ending in 2006...thus it is for a 6-year period.
The link below has detailed information about the data and the definitions of the various parts of data:
Explanation of data
The link below has detailed information about the data and the definitions of the various parts of data:
Explanation of data
At my sons University if you are a scholarship player and exhaust your 4 years of eligibibility and do not have the credits to graduate, the school will honor the scholly percentage for the next year. For example, if you have a 50% athletic scholarship for 4 years the University will match that with an academic scholly for the last year, or something like that.
Just as I suspected. My guy at Towson Univ (Maryland) has a very good graduation rate. Coach has a mandatory study hall 4 out of 5 week nights, and it is not a sleep break if you know what I mean. Closely monitored by coaches and staff.
re: my view is that the ONLY graduation rate that really counts to a player & parent is YOUR "student athlete's" graduation rate
I beg to differ for a least two reasons:
1.) When your son's resume sits among 300, 400, 500 other online job applications, the general reputation of an applicant's school (including graduation rates) will certainly figure in how his/her application is viewed by Human Resource professionals.
2.) Education is part of the social contract. Everyone benefits from a better educated society.
i.e.: more people able to contribute to the tax base, less criminal activity, etc.
I beg to differ for a least two reasons:
1.) When your son's resume sits among 300, 400, 500 other online job applications, the general reputation of an applicant's school (including graduation rates) will certainly figure in how his/her application is viewed by Human Resource professionals.
2.) Education is part of the social contract. Everyone benefits from a better educated society.
i.e.: more people able to contribute to the tax base, less criminal activity, etc.
baloneyquote:by H-Dad: When your son's resume sits among 300, 400, 500 other online job applications, the general reputation of an applicant's school (including graduation rates) will certainly figure in how his/her application is viewed by Human Resource professionals.
was that even being debated?quote:by H-Dad: Everyone benefits from a better educated society
Don't know about our human resources people, but when we go to hire the reputation of the institution carries a lot of weight. HaverDad has a decent point IMO.
Fortunately for me, I must've overcome that notion as portrayed by the media wrt the basketball team...but an interesting article below might regain me some dignity, not to mention a little bragging on my alma mater (Go Bearcats!).
Not so good news for tOSU.
BCS academic progress national championship
Fortunately for me, I must've overcome that notion as portrayed by the media wrt the basketball team...but an interesting article below might regain me some dignity, not to mention a little bragging on my alma mater (Go Bearcats!).
Not so good news for tOSU.
BCS academic progress national championship
there are some HR guys who use a dart board too ... which rep are you referring too?quote:by Jbb: when we go to hire the reputation of the institution carries a lot of weight. HaverDad has a decent point IMO.
bowl games? Rhodes scholars? National championships? ave ACT incoming?
you have been brainwashed
disconnect - defintion ... that a UC grad would be given preference over a tOSU grad anywhere in Ohio or surrounding States
quote:quote:
by H-Dad: Everyone benefits from a better educated society
was that even being debated?
I'm debating nothing, I do however have first hand insight into corporate hiring practices.
You did however say: "I could care less if my chosen school graduated 96% if my student is one of the 4% not graduated."
I could only assume that you saw zero personal benefit in the 96%.
sorry ya took only a portion of my statement, then interpreted it out of its context - -quote:by HD: I could only assume that you saw zero personal benefit in the 96%.
please post the University ranking scale your corporate H-R people refer to -
that should clear things up
quote:Originally posted by Bee>:sorry ya took only a portion of my statement, then interpreted it out of its context - -quote:by HD: I could only assume that you saw zero personal benefit in the 96%.
please post the University ranking scale your corporate H-R people refer to -
that should clear things up
Many of the top companies have "preferred university" lists where they hire the majority of their graduates from. Some companies have decided to restrict their recruiting to a select group of universities, applicants from other schools might as well not even bother to apply. My information comes directly from employees at these companies.
That said, there are plenty of employers that are only looking for someone with a degree and don't care so much about where it came from, but these are usually smaller, regional or local companies.
Back to the topic of graduation rates, the 6 year graduation rate is extremely important. You can tell your kid that he "must graduate", but if the infrastructure is not there for them to be successful, graduation becomes extremely difficult. 6 year graduation rates tell you whether or not the university is doing their job by admitting the right kind of student, and by providing the necessary support for those students as they go through the program.
Before a student enrolls at some college, if they are going to get a degree, they owe it to themselves to look at these graduation rates. Once they are enrolled, as Bee said before, the only number that matters is their own graduation rate.
re: please post the University ranking scale your corporate H-R people refer to -
I doubt there is such a formalized list. But as corporate HR practices are proprietary, I'd be in no position to post specific college rankings even if there were one.
I will however offer a hypothetical example using your disconnect - defintion ... "that a UC grad would be given preference over a tOSU grad anywhere in Ohio or surrounding States".
Simply replace "UC", (whether it was Charleston, Connecticut, California, Cincinnati) and replace it with Stanford, Princeton, Dartmouth, University of Chicago, Amherst, Penn, Swarthmore and I guarantee preference could and would often be given, (depending on individual HR policies) to schools other than tOSU.
Same thing would be true if the HR department at a New Orleans firm were comparing applicants from Louisiana Monroe (with graduation rates of 63% for student athletes) and Penn State's 88% graduation rate or Creighton's 92%.
Let me be very clear about this so we avoid any further "out of context" misunderstandings. I've endured multiple HR meetings and reviewed applicants to positions that I would eventually supervise.
If you believe that employers disregard collegiate reputations when sorting hundreds of applicants for a single opening, then you are simply wrong.
HR departments routinely consider general reputations, published comparisons (such as US News & World Report rankings), specific exceptional departmental specialties (i.e. Journalism students from Northwestern) etc. plus any prior, first hand prior experiences with other grads from the same schools.
I'm sure other websters with HR experience can confirm this not to be "baloney".
I doubt there is such a formalized list. But as corporate HR practices are proprietary, I'd be in no position to post specific college rankings even if there were one.
I will however offer a hypothetical example using your disconnect - defintion ... "that a UC grad would be given preference over a tOSU grad anywhere in Ohio or surrounding States".
Simply replace "UC", (whether it was Charleston, Connecticut, California, Cincinnati) and replace it with Stanford, Princeton, Dartmouth, University of Chicago, Amherst, Penn, Swarthmore and I guarantee preference could and would often be given, (depending on individual HR policies) to schools other than tOSU.
Same thing would be true if the HR department at a New Orleans firm were comparing applicants from Louisiana Monroe (with graduation rates of 63% for student athletes) and Penn State's 88% graduation rate or Creighton's 92%.
Let me be very clear about this so we avoid any further "out of context" misunderstandings. I've endured multiple HR meetings and reviewed applicants to positions that I would eventually supervise.
If you believe that employers disregard collegiate reputations when sorting hundreds of applicants for a single opening, then you are simply wrong.
HR departments routinely consider general reputations, published comparisons (such as US News & World Report rankings), specific exceptional departmental specialties (i.e. Journalism students from Northwestern) etc. plus any prior, first hand prior experiences with other grads from the same schools.
I'm sure other websters with HR experience can confirm this not to be "baloney".
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Hate to intrude on this debate/argument...
But there is a related topic that I have been long been interested in getting professional feedback on...and now seems like a good time..
Justbaseball, Haverdad and any others who have inside experience in hiring, or in reviewing Grad school applications...
How much, if any, weight is given to Intercollegiate sports generally...and what about those with high GPA's...any major extra consideration/benefit?...Or Not?
44
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Hate to intrude on this debate/argument...
But there is a related topic that I have been long been interested in getting professional feedback on...and now seems like a good time..
Justbaseball, Haverdad and any others who have inside experience in hiring, or in reviewing Grad school applications...
How much, if any, weight is given to Intercollegiate sports generally...and what about those with high GPA's...any major extra consideration/benefit?...Or Not?
44.
quote:Originally posted by observer44:
How much, if any, weight is given to Intercollegiate sports generally...and what about those with high GPA's...any major extra consideration/benefit?...Or Not?
Where I work, it would count a fair amount (especially when considering our department's softball team - HA! HA! Just kidding..sort of.
). In all seriousness...it really would count a lot. We are trying very hard right now to hire a young engineer with outstanding grades while running track and cross country in college. She will be applying for grad school at Stanford and we will pay for it all if thats what it takes to hire her. Her athletic participation together with her outstanding academic record make her our #1 hiring target at this time.So Observer, the answer from my experience is a resounding YES!
Academic reputation of an institution?...extremely important to us unless the targeted hire worked with us first as a summer intern or co-op and already proved themselves.
quote:Originally posted by HaverDad:
If you believe that employers disregard collegiate reputations when sorting hundreds of applicants for a single opening, then you are simply wrong...I'm sure other websters with HR experience can confirm this not to be "baloney".
Not baloney at all.
quote:Originally posted by Bee>:
...you have been brainwashed...
Perhaps in a lot of respects...yes.
But most definitely not on the results of hiring from the schools on our list. There's somethin' in them rankin's that just seems to work out again and again! I agree with whoever said that the graduation rates are important when it comes time for your sport-involved son or daughter to choose where to go...I think its something a parent needs to be aware of in order to assess the support system and the commitment of the coaches to education. I also think its an important measuring stick for a university president, trustees and alums to consider with regards to coaches' performance and the overall reputation of their school. This paragraph was JMO, nothing more.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
I agree with whoever said that the graduation rates are important when it comes time for your sport-involved son or daughter to choose where to go...I think its something a parent needs to be aware of in order to assess the support system and the commitment of the coaches to education.
Thanks for the info on explanation of graduation rates.
This thread has taken a very interesting turn. Great question 44, and excellent advice offered so far. I have to agree with many of the points made, but a lot of this discussion is generalized to big corps.
There are other ways to approach getting a job. Like JB noted, internship and related experience can be big factors. Grad school is another. The only other thing that I would add is that a degree is only one part of a resume' or CV. I think that's what Bee> was getting at. For an applicant to become a candidate one must present and impress in person as well. I think that's where a career in college baseball would potentially help an applicant. I guess a lot of this varies according to company philosophy.
Having said that, a Bachelor's degree no longer carries much weight in many fields. If you got an MBA from Harvard, nobody would care that you got your BA at E. Western U. Of course you have to get accepted at Harvard first.
Here's a blurb on MBAs from Wikipedia that further illustrates what I'm trying to say.
"Most programs base admission on the Graduate Management Admission Test (GMAT), significant work experience, academic transcripts, essays, references or letters of recommendation, and personal interviews. Schools are also interested in extracurricular activities, community service activities and how the student can improve the diversity and contribute to the student body as a whole. All of these qualifications are important for admission; however, some schools such as Harvard University do not weigh GMAT scores as heavily as other criteria."
There are other ways to approach getting a job. Like JB noted, internship and related experience can be big factors. Grad school is another. The only other thing that I would add is that a degree is only one part of a resume' or CV. I think that's what Bee> was getting at. For an applicant to become a candidate one must present and impress in person as well. I think that's where a career in college baseball would potentially help an applicant. I guess a lot of this varies according to company philosophy.
Having said that, a Bachelor's degree no longer carries much weight in many fields. If you got an MBA from Harvard, nobody would care that you got your BA at E. Western U. Of course you have to get accepted at Harvard first.
Here's a blurb on MBAs from Wikipedia that further illustrates what I'm trying to say.
"Most programs base admission on the Graduate Management Admission Test (GMAT), significant work experience, academic transcripts, essays, references or letters of recommendation, and personal interviews. Schools are also interested in extracurricular activities, community service activities and how the student can improve the diversity and contribute to the student body as a whole. All of these qualifications are important for admission; however, some schools such as Harvard University do not weigh GMAT scores as heavily as other criteria."
let's assume that is truequote:by NAcid: Many of the top companies have "preferred university" lists where they hire the majority of their graduates from. Some companies have decided to restrict their recruiting to a select group of universities, applicants from other schools might as well not even bother to apply. My information comes directly from employees at these companies.
a soph business student at Anywhere U could analyze that business model as a liability likely to cause
1) inflated starting salaries and burdonsome payroll scale
2) over-recruiting because of high turnover
3) an inflexible workforce with the same mindset & vision
4) a company at a competitive disadvantage regarding innovation, imagination, and overhead
5) IF they survive, a likely aquistion of some corporation who's CEO "almost" graduated from U-La Monroe
gee, ya make the meetings sound painful ...quote:by HaverDad: Let me be very clear about this so we avoid any further "out of context" misunderstandings. I've endured multiple HR meetings and reviewed applicants to positions that I would eventually supervise
w/all due respect - unless those meetings were in Chatanooga, Detroit, Charlotte, Pittsburg, Millwaukee, Tallahassee, and or Phoenix ... your conclusions are out of context and dis-connected or irrelevent
I am confused re: "unless those meetings were in Chatanooga, Detroit, Charlotte, Pittsburg, Millwaukee, Tallahassee, and or Phoenix."
Does this suppose tOSU grads never seek employment beyond "anywhere in Ohio or surrounding States"?
This isn't about actually finding the best employee. Its about a process of seeking and sorting the most "qualified" applicant pool. These are two different things.
During the "seeking" stage, HR processors average only 15-45 seconds sorting resumes before they actually review specific credentials. A growing number of companies now use HR software to cull 90%+ of all applicants.
Applicants' university reputations often (if not usually) play a significant role in which resumes make the 90% sorting cut from the big pile to the much small(er) pile!
That is not baloney...nor is it particularly fair. But it is far from irrelevant, especially for first time job seekers, without work history.
Does this suppose tOSU grads never seek employment beyond "anywhere in Ohio or surrounding States"?
This isn't about actually finding the best employee. Its about a process of seeking and sorting the most "qualified" applicant pool. These are two different things.
During the "seeking" stage, HR processors average only 15-45 seconds sorting resumes before they actually review specific credentials. A growing number of companies now use HR software to cull 90%+ of all applicants.
Applicants' university reputations often (if not usually) play a significant role in which resumes make the 90% sorting cut from the big pile to the much small(er) pile!
That is not baloney...nor is it particularly fair. But it is far from irrelevant, especially for first time job seekers, without work history.
thanks for the heads-upquote:by hd: I am confused re: ...
"This isn't about actually finding the best employee." Its about a process of seeking and sorting
gee, that's more de-humanizing than a 55 man fall tryout
HaverDad showing the new employee around ..
the office staff welcomes the new guy
hmmm, the new guy may have hacked H-Dad's H-R selection software ..
can't put my finger on it, but somehow he seems different
btw, Phoenix is in Arizona ... that's down by Mexico on a map
I believe that the schools do matter. However there are hundreds of colleges that exist that do have great undergrad programs and as I have said mony times most colleges get their reputation from grduate studies.
We know that my son has to get a degree from a local university to compete for jobs if that is what he wants to do. I see his graduating from a US college , playing D1 BB and getting a dergree from a local U as a big bonus. It will make his application stand out and hopefully get him an interview. After that it is up to him.
Undergrad degrees are only the beginning and my son has talked about getting an MBA. I also think that a lot of employers understnd that not all can afford the Yale, Harvard type schools. They also know that not all academic types make great employees as noted before about Lawyers. The best Lawyers are generally average students as explained to me at a pre law discussion at my college that I attended.
This argument/discussion has been going on for years. I remember fellow students in my college boasting about how lucky they were to be at Dalhousie. I thought it was humerous then and now. At some point you have to perform on the job and that is when you find out how good your degree is.
Anyone who can memorize and regurgitate can get a degree. Thinking is a whole different story. Guys who do well in class and play college ball are remarkable young men. Maybe gives them a leg up. As one poster mentioned interviewers just wanted to talk about his college ball.
You see college ball is a life experience and challenge that not many can suceed at.
We know that my son has to get a degree from a local university to compete for jobs if that is what he wants to do. I see his graduating from a US college , playing D1 BB and getting a dergree from a local U as a big bonus. It will make his application stand out and hopefully get him an interview. After that it is up to him.
Undergrad degrees are only the beginning and my son has talked about getting an MBA. I also think that a lot of employers understnd that not all can afford the Yale, Harvard type schools. They also know that not all academic types make great employees as noted before about Lawyers. The best Lawyers are generally average students as explained to me at a pre law discussion at my college that I attended.
This argument/discussion has been going on for years. I remember fellow students in my college boasting about how lucky they were to be at Dalhousie. I thought it was humerous then and now. At some point you have to perform on the job and that is when you find out how good your degree is.
Anyone who can memorize and regurgitate can get a degree. Thinking is a whole different story. Guys who do well in class and play college ball are remarkable young men. Maybe gives them a leg up. As one poster mentioned interviewers just wanted to talk about his college ball.
You see college ball is a life experience and challenge that not many can suceed at.
I agree that where you go to school can play a huge impact on seeking employment.
Most of my son's teammates who obtained employment after graduation got great jobs in SC. I am not sure how much a degree from Clemson would hold water in another state. Some people have no clue here where clemson is. The same might apply for here in FL, if you graduated from one of our state schools, most likely the person interviewing you also went to that school. That creates an instant bond.
Some degrees hold more weight anywhere they are seeking employment, ex. Stanford, Duke, Harvard, Yale, just to name a few.
But I think that this discussion has turned another corner than intended.
Players and parents may not care about graduation rates at the school they are interested in attending are doing themselves a great disservice. High graduation rates show commitment of administrations towards its student athletes. It also tells alot about the coach, that he also places importance on commitment to his players and his concern is not about just how you perform on the field. On our OV, meeting with academic advisors was just as important as meeting with the coaches. I saw a very low graduation rate from a school that is consistantly inteh top 25. That tells me alot about the school and the coach and no way would I want my son to attend, don't care home many times they have been to the CWS. Those are nice memories, but doesn't get you a degree.
Playing a sport in college is a HUGE commitment, you need to know what resources are available to help your child to do what he is there for, go to school and get a degree. Just being concerned about what your son does may not cut it. It's very easy to get caught up in not going to class or not studying due to baseball commitments. Where my son went to school, every 4 weeks coach gets a report, you are not making the grade, back to study hall, if you are not attending class or often late, you are in big trouble. He knew EVERYTHING that each player was doing. That was very important to him, he took just as much pride in his students making the honor roll, all academic ACC, etc as player of the week, year, etc.
Another thing to discuss, very important, if son was drafted before his graduation, what resources and help was available later on after he was done playing. For us, it was not just about getting money from MLB to finish his degree, we wanted to be assured he could go back and earn his degree from the school he attended for 3 years.
If you as a parent are not interested in these things, then have your son work hard and get drafted, because it is NOT easy going to school, maintaining eligibilty and playing 4-5 games a week.
JMO.
Most of my son's teammates who obtained employment after graduation got great jobs in SC. I am not sure how much a degree from Clemson would hold water in another state. Some people have no clue here where clemson is. The same might apply for here in FL, if you graduated from one of our state schools, most likely the person interviewing you also went to that school. That creates an instant bond.
Some degrees hold more weight anywhere they are seeking employment, ex. Stanford, Duke, Harvard, Yale, just to name a few.
But I think that this discussion has turned another corner than intended.
Players and parents may not care about graduation rates at the school they are interested in attending are doing themselves a great disservice. High graduation rates show commitment of administrations towards its student athletes. It also tells alot about the coach, that he also places importance on commitment to his players and his concern is not about just how you perform on the field. On our OV, meeting with academic advisors was just as important as meeting with the coaches. I saw a very low graduation rate from a school that is consistantly inteh top 25. That tells me alot about the school and the coach and no way would I want my son to attend, don't care home many times they have been to the CWS. Those are nice memories, but doesn't get you a degree.
Playing a sport in college is a HUGE commitment, you need to know what resources are available to help your child to do what he is there for, go to school and get a degree. Just being concerned about what your son does may not cut it. It's very easy to get caught up in not going to class or not studying due to baseball commitments. Where my son went to school, every 4 weeks coach gets a report, you are not making the grade, back to study hall, if you are not attending class or often late, you are in big trouble. He knew EVERYTHING that each player was doing. That was very important to him, he took just as much pride in his students making the honor roll, all academic ACC, etc as player of the week, year, etc.
Another thing to discuss, very important, if son was drafted before his graduation, what resources and help was available later on after he was done playing. For us, it was not just about getting money from MLB to finish his degree, we wanted to be assured he could go back and earn his degree from the school he attended for 3 years.
If you as a parent are not interested in these things, then have your son work hard and get drafted, because it is NOT easy going to school, maintaining eligibilty and playing 4-5 games a week.
JMO.
Keep in mind that most players do not go to college expecting to drafted after their Junior year----the majority are there to get a degree----thus graduation rates are key for them
As for maintaining eligibility,I know many kids, including my own, who had better GPA's coming out of college than they did coming out of HS---- that carrot of being able to play when maintaining the grades works real nicely
As for maintaining eligibility,I know many kids, including my own, who had better GPA's coming out of college than they did coming out of HS---- that carrot of being able to play when maintaining the grades works real nicely
The object of going to college is to earn your degree. However, for many players things change along the way, so staying on track nad having someone help you to do so is very, very important, I don't care where you go to school.
My son has only 2 semesters left, this was achieved without summer school or repeating any class, even expecting he might get drafted. Because there are a fair amount of players that get drafted from his program, they are watched pretty closely. So we asked about that, I wanted to know that son, if drafted would be close to graduation if he left early. How many parents ask that question during recruiting?
What about the player that goes to college with no intentions of getting drafted and it happens? I would want to know that my player, regardless of the situation, is going to get help him to achieve his academic goals.
My son has only 2 semesters left, this was achieved without summer school or repeating any class, even expecting he might get drafted. Because there are a fair amount of players that get drafted from his program, they are watched pretty closely. So we asked about that, I wanted to know that son, if drafted would be close to graduation if he left early. How many parents ask that question during recruiting?
What about the player that goes to college with no intentions of getting drafted and it happens? I would want to know that my player, regardless of the situation, is going to get help him to achieve his academic goals.
TPM - You beat me to it. Those are some key points IMO. I think its wise to assess the graduation rate factor against other factors during the recruiting process if a getting a degree is important to you and your son or daughter. It is an indicator of how the "student" side of "student-athlete" is handled.
BTW, we hired a Clemson grad this past year all the way out here in nutty CA!
I also want to clarify another point...I am not a believer that the only place to find a great hire is at Harvard/Yale/Stanford/MIT/Cal/etc... But our experience tells us that the odds are much better when we go there. And yes, grad. school is more important to us than undergrad.
Like any successful company I know much about, we do have a list of schools that are primo to us...which had included Ga. Tech, however since one parent worries about our model:
...I guess we'll have to re-think that one (cannot wait to tell my good professor friends there about that!)?
BTW, we hired a Clemson grad this past year all the way out here in nutty CA!
I also want to clarify another point...I am not a believer that the only place to find a great hire is at Harvard/Yale/Stanford/MIT/Cal/etc... But our experience tells us that the odds are much better when we go there. And yes, grad. school is more important to us than undergrad.
Like any successful company I know much about, we do have a list of schools that are primo to us...which had included Ga. Tech, however since one parent worries about our model:
quote:1) inflated starting salaries and burdonsome payroll scale
2) over-recruiting because of high turnover
3) an inflexible workforce with the same mindset & vision
4) a company at a competitive disadvantage regarding innovation, imagination, and overhead
...I guess we'll have to re-think that one (cannot wait to tell my good professor friends there about that!)?
JBB,
I remember you telling me that.
An engineer? Clemson engineering degree very valuable, especially graduate.
Coming from an engineering family we wanted son to take engineering at Clemson.
It wasn't about us though.
I remember you telling me that.
An engineer? Clemson engineering degree very valuable, especially graduate.
Coming from an engineering family we wanted son to take engineering at Clemson.
It wasn't about us though.
a seemingly sensible approachquote:by jbb: Like any successful company I know much about, we do have a list of schools that are primo to us...
you may note that the critqued model was HNO 3's version ...
Some companies have decided to restrict their recruiting (ONLY) to a select group of universities, applicants from other schools might as well not even bother to apply
he and Haver are the self-proclaimed experts and things may well be as they say, I'm asking questions and expressing my opinion and dismay if they are the norm
Entry level versus experienced and knowledgeable. That is the question that upper management deals with relative to development of employee talent.
Personally we always chose the headhunter route specific to a vertical need. Cost/benefit ratio much better, with less turnover. In technical field turnover can increase your overhead cost tremendously and with startups its a killer to lose the talent.
Better to pay for experienced talent then train a recent graduate only to have them move to another company. We felt it better to pay the difference for that training cost to experienced talent; cost/benefit ratio is better.
JMO
Personally we always chose the headhunter route specific to a vertical need. Cost/benefit ratio much better, with less turnover. In technical field turnover can increase your overhead cost tremendously and with startups its a killer to lose the talent.
Better to pay for experienced talent then train a recent graduate only to have them move to another company. We felt it better to pay the difference for that training cost to experienced talent; cost/benefit ratio is better.
JMO
If a company is looking for an engineer for exampla they look at a scholl that is renowned for engineerin. This is true in all graduate disciplines. Same with doctors,Lawyers etc. Undergrad is a different thing all together.
We look at renowned engineering schools first whether undergrad or grad student. In that respect, it is not quite the same as a lawyer or doctor.
As a research lab, we also get the best results when we make the investment ourselves by hiring at a young age, sending them off to grad school and mentoring them with senior people. We never use a headhunter...but a recommendation from a professor we know is worth a lot. Different model than a startup I would guess.
Just for fun...we have had the very best results in hiring undergrads from Princeton, hands down. Purdue and MIT would be tied for 2nd.
As a research lab, we also get the best results when we make the investment ourselves by hiring at a young age, sending them off to grad school and mentoring them with senior people. We never use a headhunter...but a recommendation from a professor we know is worth a lot. Different model than a startup I would guess.
Just for fun...we have had the very best results in hiring undergrads from Princeton, hands down. Purdue and MIT would be tied for 2nd.
many of the top companies will also put you though aptitude tests before hiring you.
I would agree. To work in a research lab takes a different breed of cat.
I know I sure couldn't do it.
I know I sure couldn't do it.
To go a step further, you can do some research regarding how many students graduationg from a specific university found full time employment after graduation, where they were employed, etc.
quote:Originally posted by Bee>:a seemingly sensible approachquote:by jbb: Like any successful company I know much about, we do have a list of schools that are primo to us...
you may note that the critqued model was HNO 3's version ...
Some companies have decided to restrict their recruiting (ONLY) to a select group of universities, applicants from other schools might as well not even bother to apply
he and Haver are the self-proclaimed experts and things may well be as they say, I'm asking questions and expressing my opinion and dismay if they are the norm
Hi Bee,
I have knowledge of this issue because I'm a professor in chemical engineering. I'm also on our university retention committee, so I have some knowledge of what role the university and its faculty play in retaining students. In addition to teaching and running my research group, I spend a lot of time working with students and helping them either get a job or into graduate school. My statements are based my own observations of who is hiring who, and discussions with engineers at various companies.
It wasn't my intention to cause a big argument over this. I made my post because I have direct experience with this situation.