"The only thing elite about preteen travel sports is the cost."
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great quote. Do you have a link to the full article?
I agree 100% 
Once of the funniest/saddest things I have ever seen was a website detailing how this elite player had played on the best teams in the nation, traveled nationally for tournaments and was a lean mean playing machine at 4'8 and 70#'s, the kid was 11...just sad!
jharris15 posted:great quote. Do you have a link to the full article?
I can't remember. I only remember the quote came from a parent who is or was a professional athlete.
I really don't like being the guy that always adds the BUT,
But... While I would agree in most cases with that line, I think it is a bit disrespectful for some organizations and the kids involved.
There really are some outstanding youth programs that teach the right things to young kids. And there really are young kids that simply eat it up.
Kids are either going to play baseball or not. If those that truly can't get enough because they enjoy it that much, want to learn and play extra, what is wrong with it. Especially if what they are learning helps them become better players and better young men.
Actually none of the above is necessary and unfortunately it is often the parents making the decisions. But there are some truly great (forget the word Elite) programs. In fact, Mike Matheny is involved with one.
I think at that level the teaching has to involve much more than just baseball.
My glitch occurs with the parents of the 8 year old who think because their kid made it onto the 8u East Cobb Astros team the kids baseball future is secure and the child must be in 4 lessons a week to hone that "skill" he obviously possesses since he made it onto such an "elite" team.
I'm sorry, but no 8u team is "elite". I live in between East Cobb and 6-4-3, I have seen the mania these parents go through every year. They have plans within plans of which team their kid will try out for, and if he doesn't make that team they have an option B, but all the while their eye is on the ECB Astros or the 643 Cougars, anything else is just unacceptable....these kids are 10, who freaking cares?!?!?!
As my son grew up in baseball land I listened to the parents talking about how Johnny goes to such and such instructor, Bobby just had to get the new Easton bat that was $400, such and such a team asked Timmy to play but you know we already made a commitment...etc...I smiled and nodded and told them all how great it was that their kids were getting so much instruction/attention and how I really hope that bat worked out for them. Every once in a while the parents asked where my kid took lessons but when I said he didn't the conversation kind of took off again leaving me behind, which I was okay with.
Once in a very blue moon someone would ask how my son got so good if he didn't go to lessons, I said he gives himself lessons in the back yard. He's got a trampoline up on a tree that he bounces the ball at trying to make it come back at him in a crazy way, he has a wiffle ball and bat that he throws up the ball and hits it, he also has a wooden bat that he uses to hit pebbles from the driveway into the woods.....every single time I heard some variation of "Oh, you already have him working with wood, oh, that's smart." I smiled and nodded, I could explain that the bat is from a garage sale and that my son just likes the sound better, but what's the point? These people are in their own world of "elite" baseball, reality is just a downer for them.
Once again, there are some outstanding programs for these young kids. Personally I could care less if someone wants to use the word "elite", but do wish they would name it something else that is more appropriate.
Kind of reminds me about something that is often said in close circles... "baseball would be wonderful if we could only eliminate the parents"
I don't feel that way most of the time, but there sure are a lot of parents that have gone off the deep end. The again, there are many parents that get it. And many parents that actually make the game of baseball better for many young kids.
I just find it difficult to label things. There is good and bad in most everything. Sometimes people only see the negatives and don't bother to look for anything positive. Sometimes vise versa.
If we see a bully, it bothers us and we want to punish that bully. Maybe we should be trying to find out why they are a bully? Maybe it would be more productive to change the bully. Maybe the bully has bigger problems than the kids they bully. Point is, there's usually always much more to things than what we first think.
When I first joined this site I had to get used to some folks' opinions that just seemed way to skewed one way or the other. After a few months and seeing the opinions posted regularly to new threads, I realized that some wise folks are using that strategy as shock therapy to the newbies. One guy says if you don't get $1 million minimum signing bonus, you should not consider going pro, period. I'm sure in his mind the $1 million is not set in stone and he'll occasionally soften and talk about how one should go about making the decision. Same with some dad of a 10 yo asking about the best radar gun - "spend money on a good pitching instructor". If a parent is of sound mind and has a stud 10 yo and does what they can to support reasonable efforts to improve, more power to them. I think the bashing is directed at the other 99.9% of parents whose 10 yo has some skills and they effectively mandate unreasonable efforts. I think the 0.1% are safe and can handle the abuse while the 99.9% and hard headed and need some powerful shock therapy.
I have to say that CACO3GIRL's comment about hitting rocks with the wooden bat was priceless ('you already have him working with wood...). As for whiffle ball, apparently that is actually a training aid these days, but you have to buy the $139 package from some "academy", not the $2.99 bat/ball combo from Wal Mart.
LH, before I would comment I would like clarification as to who the 99.9% are? From the overall group of parents or from a sub group? Either way I would think it dangerous to label 99.9% of anybody anything! But again I am not clear on who you are referring to.
I don't believe anyone would argue against Arsenal is one of the best programs in the country. From 9u through 16u they played almost weekly in the ECTB tournaments (local USSSA organization when my son was that age). With a long break between games I wandered over to a 9u game. Arsenal was playing. The parents were know it alls. They were arrogant. They were condescending towards the other team.
I engaged a circle of experts (Arsenal dads) to find out more about the team. My son was 14u at the time. All these dads were convinced their sons were going to play D1 ball. Their proof? Everyone on Arsenal goes D1. The catch is it's almost everyone on the 17/18u team. The $300 per month for training plus the cost of the team was worth every penny in their eyes. Their kids were going to be college stars.
Now let's fast forward to 17u ball. I became a social hsbbweb chat friend with an Arsenal dad when we realized who each other were. In 14u his son had cheap shotted my son breaking up a double play. He was apologetic. His kid is actually a good kid. It was just an overzealous moment.
I told him about my excursions to preteen Arsenal games at tournaments and the attitude of the parents. He told me the truth is of the players on the very dominant 13u in my sons era, only four players were good enough to make the 17u team.
I was chatting with the dad of a 13u player before our championship game. The dad looked at my son (5'2", 100 at the time) and said, "While your son is here playing for fun, my son (5'8" and throwing about 78-80) is focused on college scholarships. My son never forgot that comment. It ticked him off.
A few years later in an 18u scout league game my son (then 6'1") drove a ball halfway up the trees behind right field off his son (then 5'9 throwing about 83). Sometimes you bite your lip to hold back the smile and laughter. Then tell your kid you shouldn't have said that. Even though you're glad he did. Jogging back to the dugout my son pointed at that dad and said loudly to make sure he heard it, "That was fun!"
And at that point, the pro scout sitting in the stands stood up, and ripped little RJM's page from his notebook and walked away in a great show of disappointment...(tongue planted firmly in cheek)...
2020DAD - my percentages are from the sub group of dads (and moms) that are of the opinion that their 10 yo is a true "stud". While 99.9% may be a little high, the vast majority of such parents are simply wrong. Their kids may be some of the best 10 yo's on the field at that time - benefiting from lots of lessons and pushed to excel for fear of disappointing their parent(s). In using the 99.9%, I'm basically saying that if you are a parent of the 10 yo and you think he is a stud (and as such will continue to be a stud on through some major D1 program), then you should think twice and instead focus on raising your child - with a healthy dose of baseball thrown in for fun.
If some parent wants to throw out the word "stud" when your kid is 14/15 and you have some measurables, knock yourself out. In the meantime, appreciate the skills, help develop the skills, but please do not burn your kid's childhood in an effort to secure a college roster spot.
PS - 2020DAD - not saying you are doing this at all, just clarifying my position. Don't want you to think I was directing this to you - just the general HSB audience.
It seems that many posters sit in judgement of a semi-fictitious "crazy parents". As if pointing them out defines themselves. Why does it matter to anyone what someone else does? How much they spend on a bat? What age they get lessons? How much/with whom their kid plays? Whether they spend all their money travelling to play a game?
If your all knowing/seeing, I could use a little help with my 401k about now.
2017LHPscrewball posted:...but please do not burn your kid's childhood in an effort to secure a college roster spot....
This , thanks 2017LHPscrewball.
Travel ball is fun and i miss the days of seeing the parents, crazy or not and look forward to meeting the college parents at games in the spring. I will do my best to slow it down and savor it.....like the wise posters here often say, it is fleeting, enjoy it while you can. Reminds me of that line in Comfortably Numb :
When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown
The dream is gone
Go44dad posted:It seems that many posters sit in judgement of a semi-fictitious "crazy parents". As if pointing them out defines themselves. Why does it matter to anyone what someone else does? How much they spend on a bat? What age they get lessons? How much/with whom their kid plays? Whether they spend all their money travelling to play a game?
If your all knowing/seeing, I could use a little help with my 401k about now.
You have to understand, all parents at one point will pass the crazy test.
Every single one of us has been out of control for one reason or another, its normal.
Some of the advice given here is to try to help keep someone else from getting crazy, and basically help them through that crazy phase.
Sometimes it comes across as being judgmental, and someday most of the folks from the younger set will understand and try to help others understand about not getting crazy.
TPM, the board has helped me to see the game a little differently, I think. But it could be like an increase in velocity, was it the board or natural growth?
I appreciate everyone's posts. Even if you don't like someone else's bat.
I think for a lot of people, the point of the OP is valid. For some, however, they truly do have elite players who can and want to have that type of experience. "Some" meaning rare. In my area we had the "Big 3" and this dad was the President of that group of dad who thought that their daughters were it when it came to softball. My daughter was then "in the club" and so there was the "Big 4." LOL This was so funny because the other dads as well as myself thought this a joke. Ironically, the other 2 and my daughter went on to do well in college. The "President's child" was soon competing out of our area because there just wasn't enough real competition here for her. So, she team hopped all through the Midwest. They spent big time money and even produced a monthly newsletter about her. She never played in college. So, my point is, parents have to be honest with their children and themselves before they throw all of that money away. JMHO!
Go44dad posted:TPM, the board has helped me to see the game a little differently, I think. But it could be like an increase in velocity, was it the board or natural growth?
I appreciate everyone's posts. Even if you don't like someone else's bat.
I know..don't worry you are good. The funny thing is, and I think most will agree, you really won't get it until your son sets foot on that field. Or does or doesn't get drafted.
Then after their first college semester or first spring training, one will say, I GET IT! At that point you will then in turn help others to get it..lol.
I just have to chuckle when people say we (old timers) don't realize that recruiting has changed, the draft has changed. The funny thing is that the timing has changed, but the basic concepts remain the same. Coaches want and need to win, they will choose the best player to fill a specific need. That's their job. The players job is to be the best he can be within limits of his physical maturation, performance on the field and in the classroom. The parents job is to be patient, make good choices for who he plays for without breaking the bank, and understand that all players do not arrive at the same place at the same time (if you get what I am sayin)!
Go44dad posted:It seems that many posters sit in judgement of a semi-fictitious "crazy parents". As if pointing them out defines themselves. Why does it matter to anyone what someone else does? How much they spend on a bat? What age they get lessons? How much/with whom their kid plays? Whether they spend all their money travelling to play a game?
If your all knowing/seeing, I could use a little help with my 401k about now.
This topic is specifically about "The only thing elite about preteen travel sports is the cost." For me, it isn't so much about judging if the parents are crazy, it's knowing that I'm surrounded by delusion people, and it's weird to think these apparently rational people who seem like high functioning adults, are buying into this cult like concept of being able to tell if an 8 year old will be a MLB player.
I imagine it's like being a sane person in the insane asylum, sometimes the crazy rubs off on me, but for the most part I just have to smile and nod and let them live in their alternate reality where 8u kids are "elite" players because what is the point in arguing. If I have learned anything in my life it is "Don't engage the crazy". I do my best to not question people's blanket statements like 9 year olds MUST have pitching lessons in order to keep up.
TPM posted:and understand that all players do not arrive at the same place at the same time (if you get what I am sayin)!
Your quote reminded me of something that one of my sons former coaches @ ECB told us a long time ago..... it's about the journey, and where you end up versus this years team.
That being said, and looking at the positives... we've found so many great friends from all over at the ballpark. Some of the nicest folks we've met are parents of those 'elite' kids who are just the hardest working, and humble kids that my son has played with. One 2018 is headed to Vandy, another to GaTech, and another led 15u USA Baseball in the Pan-Am games (& now with the Canes). Great kids, and families too.
So while we all know there definitely is the crazy parents, we kinda choose to stay away from 'em and enjoy our time at the ballpark.
I do agree with Go44dad - not really concerned with what they all are doing. We're gonna support our son's journey.
I think it's a cop out when you say you are "not really concerned with what they all are doing" when posting here. I understand someone not wanting to turn to the parent next to them and call them crazy to their face, but this board provides an opportunity for parents that have been through the process to tell newbies that their 10 yo's lives do not hang in the balance on whether they make a certain travel ball team - nor does their baseball career hang in the balance. You mention you stay away from the crazies so I'll assume you appreciate how their actions and attitudes affect their kids - generally in a negative way. I kind of wish I had pushed my son a little harder, just to see if he would be better, but he's still in the game and hopefully will have the time to reach his full potential. That said, there were times when he might have shut down if I had pushed. If a parent of a 10 yo writes down the top 3 priorities for their kid, baseball had better not be included in the list (although it can be included in the top 5 list). To argue against folks posting here telling parents to chill out doesn't feel just right given the purpose of this board. I don't get the impression that this is the 1% board, and not sure that was the vision. While there is lots of talk about kids going D1 - lots of talk about kids going Power 5 - there still needs to be room for the mom/dad of the 10 yo that has a few questions about preparing their son for high school ball.
2017lhpscrewball - i could have worded it better, but definitely not intended to be a cop-out by any means. I was trying to highlight that some of the more talented kids we know have parents that are not the crazy over-the-top folks. I do DEFINITELY agree with ya on the priorities comment.
I'm also not trying to argue against telling folks to chill. Maybe better words would have been... everyone has to do what they feel is best for their own, and we're not as concerned with what others are doing (with a $400 bat or x amount of lessons). We all want to do what's best for our kids (& that means different things to different folks).
Our son has worked hard for his opportunities - Like many on the board he's one that works his tail off to maximize his potential (as opposed to the talented potential kids), and we too share what we've learned over the years with other parents. Just last week (on another board) we recently helped another parent of a 13yo better understand different baseball specific training approaches & places in the area so they are better educated when their son is ready to start training.
Definitely didn't intend for my post to read the way that you read it 
I probably got carried away a little - reading a few posts certainly does not give me the full picture - so please forgive my tone. I personally really do care about parents buying their 10 yo $400 bats - regardless of whether they are super rich. I think I have gotten both of my kids past this issue - now making sure they understand they are not entitled to a $40,000 car. My kids were, and are, affected by the actions of other kids' parents. Luckily there are a few good ones, but the crazy ones make my life harder. I've found that you cannot always avoid these folks and our kids definitely cross paths. As such, I would prefer fewer crazies. If I can help convert one crazy with early intervention, then I feel I've given back.
Any one putting a $400 bat under the tree? I will admit I was tempted to purchase a $400 glove with the idea of it lasting several years - if my youngest was also left handed and could use it later, I probably would have done it.
2017LHPscrewball posted:Any one putting a $400 bat under the tree?
I admit, I'm guilty, I bought my kid another bat for Christmas!
There was an amazon lightning deal for a rawlings wooden ash bat in his size, it was $19, that's close right?
I went with $289 shotgun and waders. But it's just a cover. I tell my wife we are going hunting, but I take him to a personal trainer and then throw jaeger long toss for an hour.
hey Go44dad, don't even bring hunting gear into this conversation...
It took years to convince the better half that baseball gear was the equivalent of shoes and purses.
( all of my guns go in and out of the house in the same case, if she ever sees the boxes up in the garage attic I may be looking for new housing)
2017LHPscrewball posted:I probably got carried away a little - reading a few posts certainly does not give me the full picture - so please forgive my tone. I personally really do care about parents buying their 10 yo $400 bats - regardless of whether they are super rich. I think I have gotten both of my kids past this issue - now making sure they understand they are not entitled to a $40,000 car. My kids were, and are, affected by the actions of other kids' parents. Luckily there are a few good ones, but the crazy ones make my life harder. I've found that you cannot always avoid these folks and our kids definitely cross paths. As such, I would prefer fewer crazies. If I can help convert one crazy with early intervention, then I feel I've given back.
Any one putting a $400 bat under the tree? I will admit I was tempted to purchase a $400 glove with the idea of it lasting several years - if my youngest was also left handed and could use it later, I probably would have done it.
Some good points made here.
First, you will always find that the parents with truly gifted players will be more sane than other parents who do feel the need to make sure that their players don't lose out on opportunities others have. They also are very supportive of not just their player but the entire team, and you will rarely hear them complain about another player or the coach. They don't have to buy 400 dollar bats or gloves, because those things don't make a player better. I see it this way, you know how you feel when you have a new outfit on? Well that's the feeling players get with a new bat, glove so I get that. But stay within what you can afford because I feel folks would be smarter to use their resources when its really important. That starts to tally up in HS. Showcases, tournaments, travel college visits, lessons, that becomes much more intense.
When mentioning top D1 or power 5 conferences, understand that the chances of that opportunity is very hard to obtain, for most players. That's why JUCO is such a good option. There are a few folks here whose sons went that route after HS because they felt their players were overlooked. It was that they just weren't what the coach was looking for at that time. After 2years D1 opportunities opened up. Just ask fanofgame or bacdorslider.
That's what I meant by players not arriving all at the same time. Get a clear understanding of where your player will fit in. Get a qualified ranking. PG showcases are costly, but getting a clear understanding of where he fits in will save lots and lots of time and money. You won't suddenly see the early signing period approaching and panic sets in! Make a plan, but make sure it makes sense. And always remember, academics come first. If your player had trouble struggling in the classroom, he is going to struggle even more when he goes s off to college.
I think you guys are doing a good job, and its good to hear that you are helping others at other sites to understand the process. Its frustrating at times, but they will get it.
While I agree its not our business to judge who spends what, I also believe that indirectly it becomes our business. Teach your children the value of what things are worth, how hard you and your spouse work to buy them nice things, and that they will not be less of a player because they don't drive a new car have a brand new iphone or a glove or bat you really cant adfford. Let them know you love them for who they are and not what they do. They may not understand, but when they become adults they will, and probably be better for it in their lives and in relationships. And its OK to say no.
TPM
"Let them know you love them for who they are and not what they do. "
This. Tell your son you're proud of him just because he's your son. It will do wonders.
Still can't figure out how to respond directly to a post... frustrating. But LH, completely agree about not wasting youth looking for scholarship. But I think you can do both. Its ok for a kid to dream and work toward that end. But I tell my kid all the time to enjoy this time. I know I was never 'that guy' when I was his age that everyone knows. Has high school coaches making a point to come over and say hello anytime they see him. I tell him this could come to screeching halt at any time. So enjoy. When I came on here after my sons 12u season I called him tweener. One who may have that chance but certainly may not. And nothing has changed my mind since. He is just a tick or two behind schedule in my opinion for a D1 pace. Will he.make up that gap? Who knows. I am on record many times though and remain convinced that with the no doubters you can tell even at 10 or 12. I wish my son was one of those but he is not.
Any of our florida people know of the hitting academy monarchs out of clearwater? Are they good? I am testing my own theory. Know kid that I said was can't miss when he was 11. He moved to florida and plays on this team now. Don't want to give too much info on him for privacy reasons... but he did struggle a bit at the plate as a freshman on the varsity. This could be a bad sign fir me or could be baseball is very strong in that area. Perfect game profile is from a year and a little on the scant side. Numbers looked good from what was there though. So if I remain on here I will continue to follow this kid to test my theory! If anyone wants to hold my feet to the fire and PM me I will give his name so we can play the game together! There is another my son played with at 9 and I immediately identified him as a college player. Did not go.so far as to predict D1 at 9 but definitely considrered it a possibility. Would privately give that name as well. Putting myself on the line here! A few on my son's current team as well. Between 1
2020dad posted:I am on record many times though and remain convinced that with the no doubters you can tell even at 10 or 12.
Based on my own remembrance and observations, I would not agree with this. Neither of our baseball sons would have passed that test, yet in the end both were the only 'no doubters' in their 10 or 12 year old age group for D1.
I think this is a chicken or the egg thing. Not at all saying that a kid can't'come from behind' and be great - heck that's what I am hoping for from my kid! I am on here cause I love talking baseball not because I am the dad of one of these elite player like some on here. But what I am saying is though some may improve the true greats when they are young are still great later on. In a.few years I will know if I called things correctly. And if we are all still on here I promise you I will be honest about my success rate.
Just a caveat that this is not taking injury into consideration. That doesn't change the fact that he was a no doubter in the first place.
CaCO3Girl posted:I imagine it's like being a sane person in the insane asylum, sometimes the crazy rubs off on me, but for the most part I just have to smile and nod and let them live in their alternate reality where 8u kids are "elite" players because what is the point in arguing. If I have learned anything in my life it is "Don't engage the crazy". I do my best to not question people's blanket statements like 9 year olds MUST have pitching lessons in order to keep up.
OK CaCO, you've been a member of this site since August of last year. In that time you have 5,000+ posts, 6,176 points and a ranking of #37. This doesn't include any activity on the NWGA forum you frequent.
Isn't it safe to say you're engaged in a "little" crazy (and by little, I mean a lot) 
Nuke83 posted:CaCO3Girl posted:I imagine it's like being a sane person in the insane asylum, sometimes the crazy rubs off on me, but for the most part I just have to smile and nod and let them live in their alternate reality where 8u kids are "elite" players because what is the point in arguing. If I have learned anything in my life it is "Don't engage the crazy". I do my best to not question people's blanket statements like 9 year olds MUST have pitching lessons in order to keep up.
OK CaCO, you've been a member of this site since August of last year. In that time you have 5,000+ posts, 6,176 points and a ranking of #37. This doesn't include any activity on the NWGA forum you frequent.
Isn't it safe to say you're engaged in a "little" crazy (and by little, I mean a lot)
Anonymously engaging the crazy is way different! I honestly don't tell my son about most of the conversations on here and he isn't inclined to look at any computer for longer than a minute in any case.
I do enjoy learning, and if I have to poke the bear on occasion on here to learn then that is what I do. But in my real life, I smile and nod and do not talk with anyone about what position I think my son should be batting, or how coach X is really messing up the team, etc. After every game I ask my son "did you have fun?", and I leave the criticizing to the coach. He also didn't take a paid lesson until he actually caused harm to his arm my pitching 70mph incorrectly. In other words, I do my best not to drink the kool-aid.
I am a different person at the ballpark, engaging with people on here, who probably think I am crazy, is a learning experience so I don't poke the bear in real life.
CaCO3Girl posted:Nuke83 posted:CaCO3Girl posted:I imagine it's like being a sane person in the insane asylum, sometimes the crazy rubs off on me, but for the most part I just have to smile and nod and let them live in their alternate reality where 8u kids are "elite" players because what is the point in arguing. If I have learned anything in my life it is "Don't engage the crazy". I do my best to not question people's blanket statements like 9 year olds MUST have pitching lessons in order to keep up.
OK CaCO, you've been a member of this site since August of last year. In that time you have 5,000+ posts, 6,176 points and a ranking of #37. This doesn't include any activity on the NWGA forum you frequent.
Isn't it safe to say you're engaged in a "little" crazy (and by little, I mean a lot)
Anonymously engaging the crazy is way different! I honestly don't tell my son about most of the conversations on here and he isn't inclined to look at any computer for longer than a minute in any case.
I do enjoy learning, and if I have to poke the bear on occasion on here to learn then that is what I do. But in my real life, I smile and nod and do not talk with anyone about what position I think my son should be batting, or how coach X is really messing up the team, etc. After every game I ask my son "did you have fun?", and I leave the criticizing to the coach. He also didn't take a paid lesson until he actually caused harm to his arm my pitching 70mph incorrectly. In other words, I do my best not to drink the kool-aid.
I am a different person at the ballpark, engaging with people on here, who probably think I am crazy, is a learning experience so I don't poke the bear in real life.
I am sorry. No offense but a little over a year with that many posts is crazy stuff. Posting like mad on other sites as well is IMO crazy.
Can anyone tell me exactly what one's batting order really means? When my kid was younger, he didn't bat until the 12 hole (oh yea - that's when they batted the entire team in t-ball).
Is it really night and day difference between the 3 hole and batting 6th? I realize you want the lead off guy to get one base during the first inning - then probably a good idea to have some good hitters to capitalize early. But once you get a few innings in, all this pretty much goes out the window. I understand there is some method and I understand #1 and #4 have well defined roles (get on base - hit with power), but 2,3,5 and 6 just don't seem that big of a deal - especially when it comes to bragging rights. BTW - my kid usually bat 5th some I'm partial to that slot - I figure they either want him to clear the bases during the bottom of the first or kick start the second (at least that is how I rationalize it).
2020dad,
Do you actually know who the Websters are here who have elite players and what do you consider elite?
justbaseball posted:2020dad posted:I am on record many times though and remain convinced that with the no doubters you can tell even at 10 or 12.
Based on my own remembrance and observations, I would not agree with this. Neither of our baseball sons would have passed that test, yet in the end both were the only 'no doubters' in their 10 or 12 year old age group for D1.
I am thinking no doubter about what? The player will go on to college? Get drafted? My kid was good at 10, 11, 12 but there were others better. They ended up going nowhere. A lot changes between 10 and 18. A lot.