Guest Play Offer

I think a HS pitcher thinking he needs a personal C is comical. Should work out well in college for him.

Francis, it's possible.  As are a thousand other scenarios.  Pretty simple though.  I can't imagine Jimmy C not asking organization what the playing arrangement will be before signing on to go.

Francis, you are WRONG!!!

If this pitcher was on my Summer Team, he would not play again after "bolting" for another team. Summer team is TEAM, player development. Each pitcher is assign his role.

Selfish behavior is not a team policy.

No one player is a above the others. Everyone is equal.

Bob

I know the post is more about the scenario the OP posted. But it feels like guest play offers or secondary team scenarios are becoming more of a norm. The trend I am seeing with some of the high profile players in our area is that they have their local team they play with for events that are nearby. Some of these local teams may or may not be high profile organizations. When their organization does not play in the high profile tournaments they go and pick up on a team that is playing. There are a couple of teams that I see that are notorious for having these guys play on their teams.  I used to be confused on how a player near the Canada border can be on a team from Gulf Coast. But I see why now.  I have been torn on the issue and so far have resisted letting my son go to the big tournaments with another team. He had an invite to go play Wilson Premier with another team and a couple of invites to play in the upcoming PG WWBA events in Florida but told him it probably was not a good idea. 

@ARCEKU21 posted:

I know the post is more about the scenario the OP posted. But it feels like guest play offers or secondary team scenarios are becoming more of a norm. The trend I am seeing with some of the high profile players in our area is that they have their local team they play with for events that are nearby. Some of these local teams may or may not be high profile organizations. When their organization does not play in the high profile tournaments they go and pick up on a team that is playing. There are a couple of teams that I see that are notorious for having these guys play on their teams.  I used to be confused on how a player near the Canada border can be on a team from Gulf Coast. But I see why now.  I have been torn on the issue and so far have resisted letting my son go to the big tournaments with another team. He had an invite to go play Wilson Premier with another team and a couple of invites to play in the upcoming PG WWBA events in Florida but told him it probably was not a good idea. 

Outside of Covid, why would you not send your kid to play against the best competition with the best exposure?  Out of some sense of loyalty to a local team that you pay to play on?  I am not suggesting you leave your home team high and dry at the drop of a hat but dismissing this opportunity out of hand seems to not be in the best interest of your son, granted I don't know his goals or your situation.

To the OP, yes it's possible the catcher goes and doesn't touch the field if he is not a physical freak.  If he allowed himself to be the "plus 1" to a pitcher they wanted he will likely be disappointed.

Well? I'm of the opinion you take the guest play offer, if you are comfortable with the catcher then ask that he is yours for the guest play innings. I assume that was important to the yes answer....so cover the exact terms.

You can't ditch your current team to guest on a same weekend.

But until your current team decides to pay you or discount your fees to near zero, then I'd say you owe them nothing more than show up when they are scheduled. You bought their service, they didn't buy yours.

I will say some of the best people and contacts we have met were met thru guest play. Never was double crossed.  I would advise that you keep it limited and seek to be a repeat guest year to year with teams you have a good experience with.

I don't see any issues with Guest playing at bigger tournaments as long as there is open communication with your normal team and it does not conflict with an already scheduled event. 

But I do have a question if others have seen this?

Background: Last Dec we decided it was time to move to a larger organization, because our previous team did not give the level of training and opportunity to play up a level when possible. Those were some of our requirements when we started our search. We had the choices down to two "nation wide" organizations (lots of teams all over the country under a corporate umbrellas). Both seem to be good fits, and offered the services we needed. 

We then found out that one of the teams made the players sign a commitment contract for the year. Basically committing to paying for the dues and that the players will not play for any other teams. This was a RED FLAG, we knew of several players that have guest played at bigger tournaments for teams in this org that were not part of this organization. So in other words they committed their players to not play for any other teams, but then brought in kids that were not part of the org for bigger tournament. That just didn't sit well with us. 

Needless to say, we went with the other Org and could not be happier, they have provided everything they said they would. 

Just goes to show, do your research.

Sorry if a little off topic, but I think it kind of fits. 

For the OP, Not sure I would have my son go along as the catcher in this situation. Could end up not getting playing time (unless prearranged), or some of the other players may find out and treat him like he doesn't belong, or a number of other things. IMO

I think I would try to check around and see if any other teams are going and are in need of a catcher. Next to pitchers, I have seen teams looking for extra catchers more than anything else. 

@Consultant wrote, “Francis, you are WRONG!!!

I nominate this as a Golden Post! No need to add anything. 

My son is not a pitcher but was asked about 6 times for guest play.  First time was a local tournament (within a 2 hr drive) and no fees.  Son did good, played most of the games.  This is probably my problem but sitting in the stands I started to feel guilty son was playing for "free" and taking the spot of a regular paying player.  2nd time different team son was invited but I insisted we pay.  Sat there and still didn't help the guilt.  Team had 16-17 players and I did notice 0 to 1 subs were made each game (aside from pitcher).  Son played every inning, again did well from what I recall.  That was the last time we accepted guest play invite as we declined the other 4.  I guess it's still in my head watching my 8 year old kid on his first park/rec type "tournament team" being dejected after the 1st game where he never got in the game.  The above were much older but still as a parent it's a bitter pill to swallow.  And yes, even in D1 I felt sympathetic for those parents who attended most games waiting to see if their son got a chance to play.

Ooooh classic Franny hypothetical post, love it. "Jimmy" needs to reach out to top rank team coach and discuss playing time as guest. Hopefully Johnny did not over sell Jimmy or make too much demands or both could be on the outside for future guest playing opportunities 

If you carpeted Florida how long would it take to vacuum? 

Hypothetical? Francis’ son is a catcher. 

@Consultant posted:

Francis, you are WRONG!!!

If this pitcher was on my Summer Team, he would not play again after "bolting" for another team. Summer team is TEAM, player development. Each pitcher is assign his role.

Selfish behavior is not a team policy.

No one player is a above the others. Everyone is equal.

I get what you're saying, it's admirable and something I would want to see in a HS team, or a collegiate team, but summer ball is about you. Your kid is more important than the others and you have to put him in the best positions to be showcased/excel. If your kid was uncommitted and had an opportunity to pitch in front of 50 schools with guys who could promote him or play local and win the July Jamboree you're going to go with option A every time. If my kid were a shortstop, but the team needed him in RF, we wouldn't be playing for that team. 

We've missed tournaments and games to go to camps, showcases, tryouts, Area Code. You do it when it makes sense and is necessary. 

I like loyalty, but how loyal is your program going to be to you if you told them you didn't have the summer deposit? Do what is best for you and your kid. 

I agree with PA dad regarding summer ball and it is probably a major contributor to the current state of travel ball with all it's warts. I do wish there was a team that could capture the loyalty needed from players from being mercenaries to exposure opportunities, I have not seen it in my area. 

When my son played travel exclusively starting in 13u he commented one of the great things about LL all stars was the challenge of win or go home for the summer. In travel you start over new week. When he played Legion after senior year he made the same comment. 17u travel wasn’t even about winning (more about individual exposure) although they tried to win with who was on the field and won plenty. He knew travel ball was much better competition and what it did for him. But he liked the teamwork and challenge in LL and Legion of win or go home. Of course, always getting to states made win or go home palatable.

Based on this hypothetical, I think Johnny has big cajones as a potential guest asking to bring in another guest making an awkward situation even more awkward.   There has been no team my kids played for that the idea of lifting the catcher (defensive leader of the team) for a guest player would have been considered.   Not a chance.

I've coached, managed and been a parent.   Guest players can be a "pandora's box" of issues whether it is from the coach, manager or parent's perspective.   Our team only asked for guest players if we knew (way in advance) we were going to be short on players.   My kids only guest played on other teams if their travel team had the weekend off, and they were short on players.   Guest players always had the potential to really piss somebody off, and I never thought that was fair to the regular team player or their parents.

RJM - I've got 1,167,020.80 days to vacuum Florida 1,512,458,956,800 sq ft of land in Florida.  Each sq ft takes 15 seconds.   What do you have?  I was never good at word problems on a Friday afternoon with the golf course calling my name.

@fenwaysouth posted:

Based on this hypothetical, I think Johnny has big cajones as a potential guest asking to bring in another guest making an awkward situation even more awkward.   There has been no team my kids played for that the idea of lifting the catcher (defensive leader of the team) for a guest player would have been considered.   Not a chance.

I've coached, managed and been a parent.   Guest players can be a "pandora's box" of issues whether it is from the coach, manager or parent's perspective.   Our team only asked for guest players if we knew (way in advance) we were going to be short on players.   My kids only guest played on other teams if their travel team had the weekend off, and they were short on players.   Guest players always had the potential to really piss somebody off, and I never thought that was fair to the regular team player or their parents.

RJM - I've got 1,167,020.80 days to vacuum Florida 1,512,458,956,800 sq ft of land in Florida.  Each sq ft takes 15 seconds.   What do you have?  I was never good at word problems on a Friday afternoon with the golf course calling my name.

Good points, Fenway.  And great numbers .  Why am i inclined to think you actually did that math?  Dammmm engineer families.

This is one of those "read into it your experiences" and come up with an answer. Only Johnny and his parents (and maybe Jimmy's) get to make that decision. And they get to weigh the factors, live with the decisions. My only promise is that in a couple years no one will remember why it was a bad thing or a good thing. And most likely Johhny, Jimmy and the like won't think too much about it, either.

So here's a story.  My son played with a start up org from 12 to 15.  The coaches were young, worked hard, communicated well and the kids liked them.  Never overthrew pitchers, etc. They were also honest (I'm not a pitching coach, I can just work with him mentally to compete). Moved my son up to get better competition, etc. At 15 my son wants to move to a larger, more established org. Start up org coach was a little emotional at times, and very wrapped up in the success of his org. Org was locally competitive, but nothing special.

I told my son that if you want to change teams, you're old enough know to tell the coach yourself. Son calls the head coach at the end of the season and told him he was going to another org and why. I didn't hear his conversation, but I asked him how it went.  He said it went good, that he said he was moving to another team, told him why and that the coach didn't say too much.

About an hour later, the dad of my son's catcher on the team called me. He was all worked up. He told me his son heard my son was moving to a new team, so he called the coach of the start up org and told him he was moving too. He got his butt chewed for about a half hour for being disloyal, ungrateful, selling him out and was called all kinds things.

Turns out when my son called, the coach was taking a nap and was in too much of a fog to put together what was happening.  By the time the second kid called, he had stewed himself into a fit and let the catcher kid have all his frustrations.

Moral of the story? In the long run it doesn't really matter what other people think or do.

Sons played as free agents a lot over their careers.  Never thought of bringing a catcher along.  Who would foot that motel bill?  The guy who requested him to come?  I know one point of this HYPOTHETICAL that does not make sense.  If the pitcher is a stud, unhittable, then why is he not playing for an elite team already.  I don't know that I know of an unhittable pitcher that is not playing on an elite team.  I know some good pitchers that picked up and even in my sons' cases their coaches of their regular teams sent them to play for other teams to help out their buddies and to get son seen. 

To the original question, the answer IMO would be don't bring your catcher unless he also is a stud.  If he sucks it up that day, you look stupid.

Bryce Harper was a pay to play dude in travel ball and he didn't bring anyone including his parents.  He played on so many different teams that paid his parents for him to play and expenses.  Never saw him bring his first baseman because back then he mostly played shortstop.

Wouldn’t requesting your own catcher display hesitancy to adapt to a new catcher? Chances are huge the pitcher isn’t going to have his travel catcher when he gets to college ball. I don’t believe I wouldn’t want to be tagged a prima donna for requesting I bring my own catcher. 

And Coach, while we’re at it who’s going to carry my bag for me?