hard lesson learned from Duke incident

allaboutbaseball:

That's a great post!

It is always good to stay connected as best you can without being suffocating...you're on the right track.

A great message and example to any kid going off to college whether he/she is an athlete or not.

Good post

Drinking and marijuana should be a MUST DISCUSSION with anyone going off to college.

That has been a discussion all through high school as well

All good posts. We all know that our children are going to have to make decisions that are tough to make. It is a fact at some point and time they are going to be caught in a certain situation that is going to cause them to have to make choices. We as parents can only hope and pray that they make the right choices. We can only give them our wisdom from what we have encountered in life and hope that they listen and understand. But if they do happen to stumble or get accused of wrongdoing we have to support them and be there for them regardless of the situation. And we have to remember that they are human. I have no idea if these Duke student athletes did or did not do what they are accused of. I hope they did not. But their parents can only support them and be there for them in this time of need. I have always said you dont have to just learn from your mistakes you can learn from others mistakes and then you will not have to suffer the consequences that others have to. My biggest issue with this Duke situation is that the media has almost convicted these young men already. At least from around here right at Duke and Durham it is very troubling the way the local media has handled this. Correct me if Im wrong but are you not innocent untill proven guilty? Again I hope it did not take place as described. If it did they should be punished thats for sure. But if it did not what a terrible situation and ordeal these young men have had to go through. I for one would like to see all the facts come out before we see photos and kids in handcuffs on TV. JMHO

quote:

Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
Drinking and marijuana should be a MUST DISCUSSION with anyone going off to college.

Actually, it's sad but this particular conversation better take place in high school if not before that!! And I wouldn't limit the conversation to just marajuana. I've got a senior and a 7th grader (and 2 littler ones but they don't count yet) and I've worn out the soap box with the senior with a variety of lectures along the lines of "Don't do something foolish and throw your future away just to be cool. Luckily, the 7th grader has heard many of them so maybe I won't be on the soapbox quite as much the next few years.

The Duke students are entitled to a fair hearing.....what bothers me is that this team from Duke had been repeatedly warned for boorish behavior on campus, and the Coach was put on notice by Duke administration, before this incident, to get the team in line.

This most certainly does NOT mean they were quilty of the crime they stand accused, but it does send a message....don't you think?

Think as parents of athletes we have to raise them up knowing that their position on the field does not grant them extra rights and privileges.....or an exemption from behaving like a kind and caring human being.....

I don't want to knock the wind out of anyones sails, and I may be way off base, but I have a question on the approach to these issues.

When your parents sat you down for one of those "talks" at 17/18 yrs old, what were your thoughts as you were walking away when they were done?

I know what mine were. I was surprised and insulted that they went there because I already knew right from wrong as a result of the way they brought me up to begin with. But then again I was 17 and didn't understand the make-up of a parents warped mind .

The "sit downs" I feel are a parents way of easing their own minds that they at least brought it up. I seriously do not think that it will be the "talk" that saved his live. I've heard parents say "we have to sit down with Junior and talk about this". Personally I found that unscheduled, unrehersed, idle chit-chat is the best way to communicate with my kids. This way no one is on the defensive, no one is leading the conversation, and the dialog becomes very open, and in the end I learn more than they did.

Maybe I haven't grown up but to this day I would still feel unfomfortable being part of a formal sit-down to discuss my issues.

Your issues...you have issues rz1?

Mr.rz1...we have an available appointment time next Tuesday at 2:30 pm to see Dr.Lief-know Stone-Unturned...is that convenient for you Mr. rz1?

What's that MR.rz1? A Fleet enema before the appointment? That's entirely up to you...just keep in mind...that's not where Dr.Stone-Unturned will be probing...you understand don't you?

I can see how you feel but when you get the chance to talk to your kids about something you are seeing on t.v. on the news (actually it was sports center) then you jump at that chance. Since my son started driving when he comes to tell me good by I say no drinking no drugs be safe. He responds with say no to drugs and yes to homework. While it is a weird exchange it seems to makes me feel better and at least it is a simple reminder. My son is no more comfortable hearing these topics than the next teenager however everyone can always learn. Does my son know right from wrong, yes we started teachng that at birth, do we trust him absolutely. Does he still have stuff to learn yes just as I have things to learn from him

I think both unscheduled/unrehearsed conversations as well as "formal" sit-downs have merit. I don't recall ever being insulted about a moral issue that my parents felt compelled to discuss. Regarding the comment: "I have always said you don't have to just learn from your mistakes you can learn from others' mistakes and then you will not have to suffer the consequences that others have to." Well put. We have used MANY other kids' mistakes (e.g., the upperclassman who was expelled after "borrowing" a key to his teacher's office and stealing a test; a classmate who was expelled after being found smoking pot in the school bathroom; and the neighbor's kid who was sent to a juvenile detention facility for 14 months) to try to reinforce to our son the message that one stupid mistake can negatively impact you the rest of your life.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
Personally I found that unscheduled, unrehersed, idle chit-chat is the best way to communicate with my kids. This way no one is on the defensive, no one is leading the conversation, and the dialog becomes very open, and in the end I learn more than they did.

rz - I agree. BUT there are times (and we've had 1 or 2) where a sit down conveys the gravity of a given situation.

The discussions and warnings started alot earlier than 17. A 12 year old can get in trouble next door. "Don't start nuttin', won't be nuttin'" was the refrain early and often.

My son played summer ball with a guy who was on probation for lewd and lacivious. I told Jr. no parties at his house.

Specifically, I'd steer clear of the Duke LAX guys for a while.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
Personally I found that unscheduled, unrehersed, idle chit-chat is the best way to communicate with my kids.

In a way I must be missin the boat. I can never remember a time that I have said to either my 21 year old son or twin 17 year old daughters that we should sit down and talk about this. I bring up subliminal issues constantly but it always been on their turf where they were most comfortable. I feel I get the best feedback that way.

If I said to my daughters "sit down here I want to talk to you about something" They would look at each other and say something like "It must be that seex lecture", then they would pea their pants laughing, and then call all their friends and have them come over and embarass the heII out of me.

Don't want to make any haste judgements in this case, but there are a few things that standout!

If you are a LaCrosse player attending Duke, you probably come from a very wealthy family. Maybe, just maybe, you might be used to getting what ever you want.

Parents don't let your sons grow up to be outlaws and don't let your daughters grow up to be strippers. This probably wouldn't have happened if one or the other never took place.

Before anyone gets mad, I definitely don't think the girl deserved what happened (if it did happen I hope those boys get what they deserve), but there are safer jobs out there though they may require more work and get less money.

If you have to have a sit down with your kids before they go off to live on their own, I say a bit too late. Talking about s e x, drugs and alcohol before they leave is a yada, yada kind of thing for them. Our kids live in a different world than we did, get plenty of eduction of their own, we need to focus on the consequences of their behavior. Kids never think bad things will happen to them, they are invincible, knowing that they may make a stupid mistake that will follow them forever may just jolt them before they particiapte in that stupid thing.

I know some may not agree with me, but I feel that parents should go on recruiting trips if they have not met the coaching staff beforehand. For us it was important to get a "feel" for how involved son's coaches would be off the field, and what type of individuals they were and how much freshman antics they would put up with. My son's head coach is VERY strict, yet knows when to look away, having two college age kids himself. If my son was involved in something such as this, he wouldn't be thinking about how mad we would be, but how much trouble he would be in with his coach.
Boys will be boys, even the best of them can find trouble.
The coach was fired immediately, which signals there may been many problems before this incident. Seems like a lack of discipline was there to begin with. No, coaches are not responsible for our children's stupid mistakes, or to follow them 24/7 ,coach is responsible to let them know what he tolerates and what he doesn't as student athletes on his team.
Regardless of whether they are innocent or guilty rape is a serious allegation, the accuser getting into just as much trouble if the facts are lies.
I saw a news program where someone (not mentioning who) spoke about young girls having to pay their way through college by becoming strippers. What happened to grants and loans?

I agree, sons don't grow up to be outlaws and daughters strippers.

It's just a shame that all of these young kids will have this to follow them for a long time, regardless of the outcome.

JMO.

The lesson that I learned from this incident is that the DA is looking to make a name for himself in the political arena, irregardless of the FACTS, and the stripper has her eye on the rich kids' money.

The media, as usual, are acting like vultures.

It makes me sick.

the lesson may not be apparent yet as things may not be as they seem

quote:

TPM says: I saw a news program where someone (not mentioning who) spoke about young girls having to pay their way through college by becoming strippers. What happened to grants and loans

good point, tuition & fees at NC Central are $3500 for the yr ...
a pell grant & some need based aid covers that & decent pocket money (unless you have expensive habits)