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Harper taking poker lessons in Las Vegas?

H Homerun041,000+ posts
The Nationals and Orioles took Bryce Harper and Manny Machado first and third overall in the 2010 draft, but now the two young prospects are causing Nats and O's fans' hearts to skip a beat.

Early Friday morning, Harper declared on his Facebook page that he's, "Probably going back to [the College of Southern Nevada] to win a National Championship!" and Machado quickly joined in by saying he'd like to join Harper there. The deadline for both players to sign with the clubs that drafted them is Aug. 16.

Of course, it's worth pointing out that both players are advised by Scott Boras, who's notorious for not even beginning negotiations with clubs until hours before that deadline.

If Boras sticks with his usual tactics, it would be hard for negotiations to have broken down to this point already because there's a chance they haven't even really begun yet. In fact, just last weekend Orioles' president Andy MacPhail told season ticket holders that he was "very confident" Machado would sign.

If either player does fail to sign, the Nationals or Orioles would receive a compensation pick in the 2011 draft in a similar slot to where they picked in 2010. That would mean the Nationals would get pick "1B," second overall, while the Orioles would pick again at "3B," right after the team with the third worst record in baseball this year. The 2011 draft is expected to be much deeper than the 2010 edition, so both clubs could come through OK if something like that does happen.

Of course, the deeper 2011 draft should be a consideration for Harper and Machado, too, if they really are considering this. If they don't sign and their draft position takes a hit as a result, they could conceivably end up with less money in the long run.

Playing the JuCo card gives them both leverage in their negotiations right now, but it may not next year. Baseball's current Collective Bargaining Agreement ends on the last day of 2011, and many people expect big changes in the draft for 2012 and beyond.

The most important thing to remember here is that both Harper and Machado are Boras clients. Boras isn't afraid to do anything when it come to negotiations with his top draft picks (remember, just two years ago he orchestrated a complaint that Pedro Alvarez's deal was signed after midnight, even though he could have potentially voided the deal of another one of his clients with such a grievance), and so nothing that's said about any of his clients should be taken at face value until the day of the signing deadline.


Harper and Facebook
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playfairplayfair500+ posts
deldad, yes.. Coach Chambers left CSN for UNLV. I dont know about the brothers eligibility but Chambers took a hefty amount of the CSN players with him and their funding. CSN is depleted and I dont think in "Championship" form for next year. Very unrealistic for Harper to attend CSN.

It was just an immature stunt by Harper.

Harper has been haunted by immaturity issues all along and right up to the being kicked out of te JC College World Series for an immature act costing his team a potential championship. Boras could not possibly be that stupid as to show the immature side of Harper once again. I believe this one is on Harper not Boras.

God gives everyone at least one challenge. Apparently the challenge he gave Harper is no brains.
PD PA Dino500+ posts
I had alot of hope for Harper being able to handle the pressure with maturity but that was before the episode in the JUCO World Series. Baseball America had a very favorable write up on him posing with a bat inscribed with a biblical reference. Now that Lebron James's "Decision" fiasco is over, I can see where Harper might be the next coming of LeBron. That would be a tragedy. Someone should make sure they kick him in the butt everytime he makes an immature move like that.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by igball:
The "Lebron Lesson", which future top athletes should adhere to, is its OK to go for the max money but keep your mouth shut in the process.

Doesn't seem like these two have learned that lesson.
LeBron didn't go for anything close to max money. He took the best winning situation. On one hand he should be commended for taking less money to win. On the other hand is The Decision and running from building his own legacy as the alpha dog. LeBron's problem isn't money. It's ego. Someone should have told him you don't enter the NBA calling yourself the king. You ain't the king until you earn the ring.

Now we have Harper who has been told for the last few years he's bigger than God. Some of his problems are lack of maturity in a media driven world. But along the way there should be people, including her parents telling how to act and not act in certain situations.

I've always told my kids, "If you think there's a remote possibility the circumstances are wrong, chances are you're right. Quietly remove yourself."
Last edited by RJM
Bulldog 19Bulldog 195,000+ posts
quote:
LeBron didn't go for anything close to max money.


Not sure, that to me that's the point being made. If you want the big money, fine but keep your mouth shut! LeBron went for less money, but made a huge fuss about the whole thing.


I'd like to see MLB teams completely shut out Harper if he chooses not to sign. They should not draft him next year and force him to sign a very small free-agent contract. I realize that is not likely to happen. The players union should be stepping in here and creating a problem with all these crazy signings. How do these signings help the players already in the players union?
OnWabanaOnWabana100+ posts
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PA Dino:
I had alot of hope for Harper being able to handle the pressure with maturity but that was before the episode in the JUCO World Series. [QUOTE]

First of all, the kid was 17. How many Big-leaguers have been tossed for something similar? He probably is a little immature, or at least only as mature as most other 17 year-olds. Just trying to keep it in perspective. The kid is young and dumb and I wouldn't expect this to be last mistake he makes. Who knows, maybe Boras 'advised' him to put that up on facebook.

--------------------------------
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
Most people think the 2011 draft will be better than this one, especially among the college players.

A good friend is deeply involved with trying to get Harper signed. Harper doesn't hold "all" the cards.

While National fans might not like it at first... If Harper doesn't sign, Washington would have the second pick next year in addition to the pick they end up with. They could easily have two of the first four or five picks in what's being called a great 2011 college draft class. Also they would have lots of money to sign this year's 4th round pick, AJ Cole. Cole is/was an absolute first round pitcher.

So who knows... maybe in the end the Nats would be better off if Harper doesn't sign. However, I still think he is going to sign here pretty soon.

It always amazes me when baseball fans have everything figured out when it comes to what others are supposed to do or how they are supposed to act.

How many of us have ever been the first pick of the draft? What would any of us do if our son became the first pick of the draft? Would we listen to the fans or would we do what's best for our son? Maybe we would even want to be represented by Boras!

June 16th we will know what happened. Remember, last year fans were all over Boras and Strasburg at this time of the year. He signed 77 seconds before the deadline on August 17th for over $15 million. I suppose he's happy he had and still has Boras as his agent. Now he is already a poster boy for MLB.

Sometimes it seems as though the fans prefer the owners to the players. Must be because they treat all their players so well, even after their skills start to diminish.

Truth is... if your son is ever going to be a professional baseball player, you should be pulling for these kids to get everything they can possibly get. You can be sure that the owners look at it as a business.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
Since kids (18-22) are young and inexperienced I would tell my son to stay invisible and keep his mouth shut. I would advise him every time he opens his mouth he's more likely to lose money or image by possibly saying the wrong thing versus creating a positive situation. Let your agent do all the talking. I would tell my son if cornered by media just say, "We'll see what happens soon. I'm working out and hoping to get back on the field soon. Have a nice day. Bye."
Last edited by RJM
20dad20dad1,000+ posts
quote:
Truth is... if your son is ever going to be a professional baseball player, you should be pulling for these kids to get everything they can possibly get. You can be sure that the owners look at it as a business.


very, very true. there may be some first round parents here. but most have been fans of their teams longer than they have been parents. Big Grin fans think ..........different.

i agree,quite different when you need to make a decision for your own son, whatever the money is.


baseball is a huge business, disquised as a little boy's dream.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
quote:
Since kids (18-22) are young and inexperienced I would tell my son to stay invisible and keep his mouth shut. I would advise him every time he opens his mouth he's more likely to lose money or image by possibly saying the wrong thing versus creating a positive situation. Let your agent do all the talking. I would tell my son if cornered by media just say, "We'll see what happens soon. I'm working out and hoping to get back on the field soon. Have a nice day. Bye."


RJM,

And I think that is good advice.

Then again, Bryce Harper has more experience dealing with the media than I will ever have. And for sure... So does Lebron James. Oddly enough one of them already has, and the other soon will have, much more money than I will ever have. Despite anything Bryce Harper may have said, I know for a fact that the Washington Nationals still want to give him a pile of money.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
I wouldn't be too hard on Harper, LeBron James is 25 years old and he has said some really dumb things lately. It's the human condition for people to envy people like Harper and it is human for people like Harper and James to let things go to their heads.

Did Joe Mauer have Boras as his agent? Did Mauer get every nickel he had coming to him? Will Joe Mauer ever have to worry about money again? All rhetorical questions to be sure.

I agree with Boras that waiting until the last minute gets you the most money. I disagree with the strategy however. After, about 10 million (he probably will get about 17 mil), Bryce can live handsomely off the interest for the rest of his life. Why not show the fans that you are willing to sign and be ready on the first day? Obviously, the owner will take advantage of that but it might pay back in good will down the road. Maybe the fans could really get behind someone like that. People are hurting out there. I think Joe Mauer understands that.

I also agree this is billionaires trying to squeeze millionaires. None of this makes sense. I know that no one related to me will ever have to worry about things like James or Harper. I don't think they are doing anything wrong. I do know what my feelings are and they tell me that things could be handled better. More power to them however.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by PA Dino:
I admit to never seeing Harper play in person but I wonder, did he really deserve the Golden Spikes Award? Weren't there any others that even came close? There were a ton of fantastic DI players this year..........That's a pretty elite group to get put in as a 17 year old.
D1 JuCo ball is excellent ball. Plus he put up huge numbers playing in a league that uses wood bats. He's genuinely a seldom in a lifetime prospect. It just amazing there are two in back to back years and the same team gets both of them.
Last edited by RJM
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
Just look at this if your son was in his situation. Wouldn't you want him to get the absolute most he could possibly get? You have no way of knowing for sure if there will be another pay day in the future.

As far as his ability, come on. Just look at the numbers he put up in a very good league swinging wood. Now just think what kind of numbers he would have put up in a college season with metal. And the kid is only 17 years old. Just how good is he going to be when he is 21? The upside is tremendous. He may never be any better than he is right now. He may never develop into a top flight ML player. But the odds are better he will than he won't. And that is enough to get him paid.
PD PA Dino500+ posts
The stated justification for the Golden Spikes Award is : "the GSA has been awarded each year to the player who exhibits exceptional athletic ability and exemplary sportsmanship." (Baseball America) Of the two primary qualifications, there is reason to doubt one with Bryce Harper. There are numerous documented incidents of disrespect for the game, perhaps it is a matter of simple maturity but I agree certainly the attention on his athletic ability is well earned. However, he lacks "exemplary sportsmanship". The award was given out at least a month after his notable ejection from the JUCO College World Series. I get that the ball was probably outside but there were other incidents leading up to this that made it probable he'd get tossed. He has been known to throw his bat in the past. I just expect more from a Golden Spikes Award Winner.

Chris Duffy - University: of Central Florida

Baseball America
"The 6-foot-2, 240-pound outfielder capped off an incredible season with one last monstrous weekend in UCF's series win at Tulane, going 7-for-14 with three home runs, two doubles and 10 RBIs. His two-homer game Saturday gave him a school-record 21 on the season and moved him into a tie atop the school's all-time homer list with 43. He finished with an eye-popping line of .447/.539/.850 with 81 RBIs and 18 doubles to go along with all the long balls."

Regarding : Wood Bats

I understand the premise that wood bats are harder to hit with than aluminum, and generally I agree for the average college hitter. With one exception......The difference between a wood bat and an aluminum or composite shrunk this year with the NCAA focusing on illegal or altered bats. In addition, elite college hitters are just as good with either bat. Harper and Duffy have been using wood and aluminum interchangeably for several years. I assume no notable difference in the pitching between the ACC and the SWAC.

Bryce Harper is just a kid, and he still acts like one. The award was too prestigeous to be given to a High School Junior turned professional.
PU Pop Up Hitter dad1,000+ posts
exemplary sportsmanship."

PADino, could not agree with you more on this. I'm sure there were many other players who modeled this quality who deserved this better.

It all boils down to the "Harper Bandwagon effect" No one wants to be left behind in helping this kid get his millions. If he was eligible for the Cy Young, they would find a way to bestow that on him as well.
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May:
Just look at this if your son was in his situation. Wouldn't you want him to get the absolute most he could possibly get?

There's something to be said in the minds of management, peers, and fans about a drafted player who approaches the game and his career as privilege and challenge versus top dollar smugness. Call me "old school", unrealistic, or a plain idiot, but, I whole heartily feel that realistic negotiations out of the box, and post contract character hype will gain quick "buy-in" from the fan base, and corporate endorsements from outside baseball that will far exceed the paltry millions a player held out for to begin with. Micheal Jordan took that approach throughout his career and it will pay him dividends forever.

Then again I doubt Harper has the character make-up to pull a business plan like that off so he might as well take while he can.
Last edited by rz1
EH Emanski's Heroes1,000+ posts
http://www.capecodbaseball.org/Stats/stats.htm

Here is a link to the stats for the Cape Cod League. These are the elite college bats in the country, and the team batting averages are in the low to mid .200's, with team OBP in the low .300's (and below .300 in a few cases).

As far as SWAC vs. ACC, I don't think anyone would make the argument that there is any comparison. For one example, the ACC got eight teams into the NCAA tournament (including four #1 regional seeds). Four won their regional, and two made the CWS. The SWAC got one team into the tourney (Grambling) as a four seed that went 0-2.

Thirty-one ACC pitchers were drafted this year alone. I'm not sure what that number would be for the SWAC, but I'm confident it's not close. I'm certainly not saying that the SWAC doesn't have good players. But comparing them, in terms of quality of baseball, to the ACC really is no comparison.


EDIT- ignore my brain cramp here, as I'm comparing the ACC to the NCAA SWAC (schools such as Grambling) rather than the NJCAA SWAC (schools such as the College of Southern Nevada).
Last edited by Emanski's Heroes
3rdgenerationnation3rdgenerationnation100+ posts
I just want to try and put the CCL stats in the proper context. The Cape has been a pitcher's league since they went back to wood bats. It's not just the wood but the quality of pitchers you face every night. You get the top few guys off big time programs staffs. As a result the 8th or 9th kid on any teams' staff on the Cape is throwing 92 MPH. There are not many weak sisters. In addition, most nights the ball just does not carry, you are at sea level and subject to heavy fog.
PD PA Dino500+ posts
PGSTAFF
quote:
You are kidding, aren't you?


Yes......I watched South Carolina play in Columbia this year and I can't imagine another conference with better pitchers. I was throwing some bread on the water to see what came to feed.

3RD GEN
quote:
The Cape has been a pitcher's league since they went back to wood bats.


Thanks for that insight. Emanski's Heroes: I think you need to use some different stats to prove what a disadvantage wood bats are for the elite college hitter. I don't see it.
EMANSKI'S HEROES

quote:
As far as SWAC vs. ACC, I don't think anyone would make the argument that there is any comparison.


Now that we agree it makes the point that the big numbers Harper put up in the SWAC may not have happened if he were in the ACC where the Golden Spikes Winner, IMO should have come from.

What happens if Harper stays in college and doesn't sign. Another award next year?
PD PA Dino500+ posts
itsinthegame,

Wait before you make that statement don't you need to define "elite college hitter"? I mean, don't you think a kid like Bryce Harper can make the adjustment to wood way easier than say, an average hitter from a mid major college team. You guys are really quick with the one liners. Yeah the ball goes farther, there's a big sweet spot, you can't pitch inside that effectively, the weight distribution makes it easier to swing but c'mon Harper barely notices the difference.
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