Has anyone ever seen a PG grade of less than 7?

Actually I think the grade was from 2009.  He would have been a sophomore. 

Backstop, curious for myself, CaCo and others, how old was he when he rated 7, did you pretty much agree with rating and how much did he improve from that time to the time he was recruited to a D1?  Awesome that he did this, BTW!

That makes a little more sense. But still a great story.

 

I agree with this. Who worries about this stuff when your son is 13? There is no way one can understand until HS.

 

He attended his only PG showcase right before his sophomore year.  He had pitched some varsity as a freshman, but at this point he was still a primary catcher and secondary pitcher.  He attended the showcase as a primary catcher.

 

I think his rating was fair.  Based on 60 time, pop time, catcher velo, and how he hit in the games I wasn't shocked when it came out.

 

My son is supremely confident and he didn't bat an eye.  At the time I honestly freaked out a bit, but had spent enough time here to sort of refocus.

 

He has always played on the best teams in our area because as you know solid catchers can be hard to come by.  This worked in his favor.  Two months later he was playing with older boys at PG Underclass.  They were trying to get 2015 catcher committed (ultimately went to WV) so put him on the mound and after his first outing the school he is attending asked our coaches about him.  Mind you he topped at 78 at this point.

 

At this time he with some pushing from me (I could see he would never run well enough or hit for enough power to play at D1 level) he committed himself to being the best pitcher he could be.  In the gym non stop and really just took advantage of opportunities given to him.

 

One camp and one summer later he committed to his future school one day before school started his junior year.  He has honestly been living a charmed life since.  Pitched in some very high profile events this summer and pitched well enough to be the MV-Pitcher of a good PG event.   

 

Do I think PG would rate him as higher than a 7 now?  Based on his metrics I don't know. He honestly tops at 85 or so (84 on PG), but his ability to pitch in big games against very good competition as well as commitment he has to a good D1 make me confident they would rate him higher if we wanted to spend the money.  I just never saw the point.  Committed to the school he wants with a coach that believes in him and clearly not a pro prospect out of HS.

 

My son was rated a 7.5 when he was a freshman in HS. I thought that was totally fair. All through high school I thought he was a bubble D1 kid. 

 

The fact that he did very well in a top conference had a lot more to do with his work ethic, makeup, and ability to get on base - all things that really don't show up very well in a showcase environment. 

 

But if 7.0 means "potential D1 prospect" then that would mean that plenty of 7's do succeed at the D1 level. I don't think that is a misjudgment by PG. 

 

Jerry Ford said once that he was pleased to see my son do better than their expectations. What that meant to me was just what I thought when he was rated  - he was a bubble kid, and Jerry was glad to see that he didn't pop.

 

I think the PG ratings tend to overrate the physically remarkable players, but that doesn't make them unique. I think the entire baseball establishment overvalues imposing physical presence. I had a scout explain it to me:

 

"It's a lot easier to explain a million dollar mistake if he's 6'3"."

We see lots of players and try to give an accurate grade based on what we saw at that event.  Sometimes we see the same player for a week at a tournament and realize he should be a higher grade.  Sometimes people notice this when they look at the rankings and see an 8.5 ranked higher than a 9 or 9.5.

 

Not sure there is any scientific way of evaluating players.  Though with all the new technology we use there are separation points.

 

While I was a young scout, at a tryout I had a old hall of fame scout tell me something I never forgot.  He said you should never think you will ever be so lucky to have seen a player on his best or his worst day.  What he meant was every player you see is probably either better or worse than what you saw.  Looking back I have seen a few players on one of their best days and a few on one of their worst days.  But for the most part every player I've ever watched falls into that middle ground. So in addition to evaluating the player, you need to guess what kind of day he had.  If that sounds unscientific, it's because it is.  That is why scouts keep coming back to see the players they like, until they lose interest.

 

ML Scouts are looking for players that have a chance to play in the Big Leagues.  Colleges are looking for players that can improve their roster.  We simply give our opinion which is generally well respected by both of the above. We know that because of the many relationships we have with both.  However, our opinion sometimes differs from their opinion.  And in the end their opinion is the most important one. 

 

There are a lot of factors involved.  We grade on baseball potential.  We might not like the players parents, or the kids makeup, or the kid might have poor grades.  We don't grade on anything but baseball potential.  However scouts and recruiters need to look at everything.  Often it is those other things that hold a talented player back. We gave him a 9, but nobody wants him.  

 

Last and most important... We have graded kids a 6 who ended up playing in the Major Leagues.  So my answer to anyone that thinks if their son gets a 6 he should hang it up... If one opinion causes you to give up, you should probably give up, because you lack the most important trait. I absolutely love the "prove you wrong" guys.  

 

So we grade players and we are pretty good at it. We are not perfect and we make mistakes at times.  We can create opportunity, but we can't create success or failure.

Full Disclosure:

 

In a previous post I mentioned that, "I know a young man who received a 6.5."  Well, surprise, surprise, that "young man" is my son.  That 6.5, that "Scarlet Number" burned him pretty good, as he was certainly hoping for higher.  As was his dad.  I've told him he could contact PG and have it removed since he was only 14 at the time.  He said, "No.  I want to prove them wrong."

 

Since then that 6.5 grade is the first thing he, or anyone, sees when you pull up his PG profile page.  He has not sent it to any coaches. Feels he can't.  But that 6.5 has motivated him like no other number could. In a strange way, I have come to see his PG showcase experience and the 6.5 he was given as a blessing.  "Things happen for a reason." 

 

JCG's post on Dylan Moore's experience is priceless, and should be the one final note to this thread.  His journey through the PG showcase world says it all.  It ain't over, till it's over.

Why showcase at 14?

Exactly.  I learned about HSBBWeb 6-months later.  My bad.

And, though I refer to it as a "Scarlet Number" it really is not.  6.5 on the PG scale basically says "college prospect."  I'm paraphrasing but the description is about accurate?  Yeah, he is a college prospect.  I guess the issue son and I had, was that you don't see many sub-7 grades (which brings us back to OP).

 

If I could do it all over again? Yes, I would have waited.  But like I said.  I was a newbie.  First son, only son.  Found HSBBWeb about 6-mos. later.  Now I get it.

My son will be 14 in 10th grade, not for long in 10th grade, but 10th grade none the less.  My son will be in high school next year.

 

One of the catchers I know that is a 2016 has a PG grade of a 10, in 9th grade he was a 7.5, and in 10th grade he jumped to a 9.5.  I completely understand how these grades are flexible and different any given day.

 

I appreciate everyone's input and I feel I do understand the grading system better.  I will just sit back and see where his baseball leads him.  For being in 8th grade he has already had some great baseball opportunities and discussions with knowledgeable people, I'm just trying to see what they see and was hoping the PG grade would be a magic 8 ball, it won't, and I get that now. I plan on taking him to a PG showcase when he is in 10th grade and I guess we will go from there.  Maybe I will resurrect this thread then.

 

Thank you again to all.

MORE FULL DISCLOSURE:

 

in son's 6.5 write-up, PG scout/reviewer states 3-times, player is "very young."  The scout/reviewer keeps hitting this note: player is "very young" in the beginning of write-up, in middle, and at end.  Which to me generously left the door open for development and the possibility of becoming a better ball player down the road.

 

I think we can agree, yes, 14 is too young to do a PG showcase.  Now, have there been 14s who have received grades much higher?  Must be.  I'm sure there are kids who at 14 have received 8s and 9s, but not most 14s.  As PG scout/writer said, my kid was "very young." 

 

If you're scoring this story at home?  That's an "E-Dad."

I would not say that they could be different any given day...

 

I would more say the grades are flexible and could be different at different points in a player's development.  I don't think if you go this weekend and you get a 6, you are going to jump to a 9 next weekend.  I think it's totally possible to go from a 6 to a 9 in a year or two.  If that happens, it would depend on a lot of factors.  Such as physical growth (getting bigger and stronger) and baseball skill improvement (ie. faster 60 time or faster FB velocity).  But, I don't think that is going to happen over night.  It will take some time and development.  Which does happen...  A 6 does not doom a kid.  It gives a snapshot in time.  What happens after that is up to the kid and his family.

Been enjoying the threads and reading about one's personal experiences. Here's another. Son went to PG showcase early on ("young" as another poster said) to see where he stood. Received OK rating but used it as a motivation. 60 was one of the best at the event, though low for son. He knew he had to improve arm strength, and STRENGTHEN his strength (Speed).

Fast forward-- he increased his arm strength 15 mph, and graduated a 6.4 60 runner, since the PG showcase. Knew that speed and grades were his top 2 tools. Coaches that recruited him often talked about a "different set of tools," that they wanted to see in person. In skills sets at showcases, hard to detect that he would use part of a round to hit opposite field, and another part of the round to hit ball hard up the middle, and usually end with long balls to OF. Bunting too is part of his arsenal, which is seen in games, not showcases.

One previous poster spoke of Heart of a player, I'll add instincts. How is a RF anywhere around an overthrow at first from third? Or taking an extra base when fielder's aren't covering a bag? Or stealing second base after 7 throws over to first base? Or inside out swing to RF to move a runner from second to third? Or bunting to third because 3B was miffed that he struck out last inning and his head isn't in it?  Will never know what PG rating is since 9th grade. In the grand scheme of things it didn't matter. What "the number" did for us, was learn what one evaluator's opinion was in a "snapshot of time",(how he stood against others) and motivate a player to improve.

I have to think the "young" thing is probably the hardest to figure out.  We played an "elite" team this year.  Skill wise, they where average.  Physical maturity wise, they all where shaving.  Our kids are still peach fuzz.  Given that the PG ratings are happening between 9 and 12th grades, a lot can happen in those few years.  Kids are maturing at different rates.   

Often it is said here that parents just don't know how talented their son really is or isn't. That could be true in some ways, because parents tend to think son is better than he really is. 

 

I think parents know when they have a talented son.  After all, they have seen him more than anyone and they have an idea how he compares against and with that competition.  I think most parents know when they have a son that is capable of playing college baseball. What they don't always know is how he compares to everything that is out there. And what level of college baseball he might best fit in.

 

Sometimes it is very confusing, even for baseball lifers, to accurately evaluate their own son.  For some reason the weaknesses they see in others, they don't see in their son.  Some parents, on the other hand, actually underestimate their son. There is more to it, than just knowing your son has some talent.  Most everyone can see that.  It's more about comparison at this poInt in time.  

 

Is he a top 10%, in the middle, or bottom 10% at this time, out of all the players his age that have some talent.  If he has some talent, he can play college baseball.  if you do the same thing with college baseball programs, it will give you an idea where your son fits best (at this point).  Obviously we all know the top 10% of baseball programs are looking for the top 10% of the talent.  There are more top 10% talent kids than there are spots for them.  The lowest 10% are happy to get the lowest of those that have talent.  Then there is this great big middle ground trying to find the best talent possible that fits their college. Remember there is a big difference in having the ability to play at a certain college and having that college want you.  

 

There really is a lot to think about.  You could wear yourself out trying to figure things out and you would just be wasting your time. The best way to deal with everything is to get out there and compete. Give the decision makers a chance.  First go where they are and if they like you enough you will see them again where you are.

 

Main thing to remember is that someone other than you will make the decision as to how far your son goes in baseball.  So getting other opinions can be very helpful.  It doesn't have to be just PG's opinion either. There are many ways to get a qualified honest opinion.  Just know that it's hard for an individual you know, to look you in the eyes and tell you your son lacks ability.  Also that individual might not know what is really out there as competition.  

 

It's one thing if you live in California, Florida, Texas, or Georgia and other hotbeds with lots of talent.  If your son competes well in those areas, he fits well nationally.  In other parts of the country, you don't have this luxury, you need to find out where you fit.  Then do what so many others have done, improve on where you are. But no matter where you're from, if you have some talent, the more you are seen, the more options you will have. That doesn't mean those will be the options you most want. But more is always better than less when it comes to those options.

Thank you PG staff, these two bits right there put me, and probably others, at ease since we are in a baseball hotbed and that's probably half of what had me confused.

 

Thank you for the great advice.

 

 

My son attended his first PG Showcase a couples months ago, right before he started his Jr. year in HS.  I think you get what you pay for, an unbiased opinion of a ballplayers current ability and in most cases, projections based on age, frame, maturity, mechanics....etc. 

I recommend attending a PG showcase because it offers a dose of reality for players and their parents. It turns out my son's PG grade actually matches his recruiting interest(or lack thereof) so it was a humbling experience.  I know about 7 or 8 kids with PG grades and there is a direct correlation between their recruitment interest and their grade too. I'm not saying the grade is the reason for the their respective recruiting interest, just saying that it appears PG evaluated the players appropriately in every case.  My takeaway from PG is that you take whatever grade you get, high or low and keep working to get better.  I don't think the grade should define a ballplayer but it should provide some direction or at the minimum, motivation! 

Ripken, what time frame did it take for your son to gain the 15mph in throwing velo?  Two years?  What college or level of college did your son eventually go to?  Still playing?

Thank you.

I have just read through the last several post on this topic.  I have to say the post by PG pretty much sums it up.  If you are at the recruitment phase in your son's journey, read that post very carefully and soak in what he is saying.  He has been in this business a long time and has seen thousands and thousands of players.  Most of up parents probably are using hundreds as our reference.  The part about the need of the specific program is also very appropriate.  Your son must have ability first, then he must be able to fill a specific need of a program if you are looking at a specific school.  Sometimes you could have the talent, but they don't have the need.

Two years.(don't know what it is today or during senior year of HS but increase was from winter before Freshman HS baseball to winter before Junior year HS baseball). He is currently a  Freshman (2015 HS grad) playing at a high academic D1.

+1

How is your son doing??

Hey TPM, thanks for asking. He is a little over 2 weeks post-op. Everything is going well. He is back to workouts (lower half only) but he is itching for time to pass. I can only hope he is following orders and not doing anything too early. He just wants to compete. Hopefully he will be out of his sling in another 3 weeks and released to start rehab.