Thank you PTWood! I didnt want to ruin Francis's post but this makes for great discussion, IMO.
What would be your answer, and why. I asked my son, wasnt surprised at his answer.
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My son said both. They tried to push him and he couldn’t answer. If I could have answered for him; I would have said hate to lose. They lost in the Cooperstown championship and you should see that poor boy’s face in the picture. 😂 He remembers the losses and thinks of what he/the team could have done differently. @TPM What did your son say?
Gotta learn to let it go........ d$#n it I hate losing and always have 
I believe "Loving to Win" helps to get your mind right and gets you going in the positive direction.
IMO, most real competitors have plenty of both but the hate-to-lose is deeper for a lot of reasons. They thrive on competing, winning and excelling. Being good and winning is satisfying an expected adrenaline rush and outcome, so it is merely validating expectations while losing is like a junkie not getting his/her fix and a result falling below expectations. They feel the hurt from not getting the expected adrenaline rush.
For me, the loss was sort of something that I hated more but it was like a constant irritation that could flare up when talked about or facing that same opponent again. Particularly memorable wins would keep me up at night (just that night), on a high, replaying the event.
I'll be the first to admit that, looking back, both were over-the-top reactions and seems like priorities were off kilter. But i do think that is a fairly common trait with competitors.
While I am a horrible athlete, I have always been a very competitive person. I love to win. I just asked my 2021 son and he went with loves to win also. Now it's got me worried that it's a disadvantage to him. Is that the consensus?
He started playing "select"/travel ball at age 7. His first season, his team was a couple games under .500 and it's been my belief that it's where he learned how to lose. I've always considered being able to lose/handling losses as a necessary skill for all baseball players. Not just because of the 70% failure rate deal, but also because of the game as a whole. .500ish teams are good and .600ish team are great. .700 is basically impossible unless you're the Dodgers in a Covid-shortened season. Further, everyone agrees that a short term memory is vital to playing the game. If you hate to lose so badly, doesn't that handcuff your ability to have that short term memory?
My son absolutely hates to lose, but it's short-lived. Really intense, but he sheds it quickly. Regular game loses are largely washed away in 30-60 minutes. Big time situation loses are gone overnight. I've always appreciated that. What I've appreciated even more, is that - whatever the cooling off time period is - he's right back to work immediately. I can't tell you how many times my son was in a batting cage or in front of a tee only hours after a loss. After typing this out and taking it all in, I'm no longer worried that my son is worse off because he loves to win more than he hates to lose. If anything, I'll bet a perfect balance between the two creates the best overall player.
Baseball is a game of individuals. When you pitch, hit or field, no one can help you. However you win as a team and lose as a team.
The added pressure to win, adds to tense behavior.
Depending on the season, 10 games or 110 games.
* Can you imagine your team "out of contention" in the month of August. Win or lose no longer is a factor, wait until "next year".
If a Coach asked the question, I WOULD ASK THE COACH HOW DOES HE PLAN TO COMPETE?
Bob
I forewarned my kids they were likely to be asked the question during recruiting. I told them to answer this way ...
“Both. I will do in preparation for the game and in the game anything that is within the lines of fair play to succeed.
It’s easy to enjoy winning. It’s harder to move on from losing. But it’s important to believe in yourself and move on. But win or lose, tomorrow is a new challenge.”
I knew they would handle the question. I remember riding home from an 8th grade softball game with my daughter. The team had gone undefeated the previous year. They lost the last game in 8th grade to go 13-1 (27-1) over two years. She was silent the entire ride. When I pulled into the driveway she spoke up.
“You know what! Losing sucks! I’m going to take it out on the ball tonight in travel practice. I never want to lose another school game.”
Over the next four years they went 54-2 in conference play with four conference titles. Overall, they were something like 90-12. I realized that day in 8th grade my daughter’s philosophy was “get mad, get better.”
My son was new to the LL. He came in with a big rep from a nearby town. His first game everyone was there to watch. He was seen as the kid who would get all-stars over the hump and to states. Relative to his ability he was mediocre that first day and his team lost. He had a couple of doubles. But he made two errors.
Walking to the car he commented he sucked. I asked him if he wanted to practice tomorrow. He cut me off, “I’m the best player in this league. I meant I sucked today.” He was a hard worker. I knew I would never have to worry about confidence.
Whether you win or lose you have to be able to out it behind you and always strive to be better. Here’s a conversation with my son when he was ten after winning the travel soccer league title . How this for flipping the switch?
Great game! What did the coach say after the game?
He said we played well. What’s for lunch?
He must have said more than that!
He said we held our positions and spaced well. Can I have a PlayStation for Christmas?
Note: For those wondering about Christmas, I married a Christian.
First, I want to start by saying that I don't mean to offend anyone here.
When I hear a person say that they "hate to lose," I always wonder what they are doing to win. I think that the vast majority give lip service to that phrase. I will save you the long post here I just deleted. I hate to lose. Too bad that I didn't/don't take the time to enjoy the wins.
@PTWood posted:He remembers the losses and thinks of what he/the team could have done differently. @TPM What did your son say?
He said that he hates losing more than he loves winning. Nothing can be worse in sports than losing. Actually that was a good description compared to what he actually said.
I thought he would say he loved winning more than losing.
@CoachB25 whatever you deleted, you were most likely preaching to the choir. Most people who have answered here have kids who played, are playing or will play at very high levels so I wouldn't make any assumptions about what they are willing to do.
Coach B,
I would bet that players (or a team) that work really, really hard at being winners would say that they hate losing more.
JMO
@TPM posted:Coach B,
I would bet that players (or a team) that work really, really hard at being winners would say that they hate losing more.
JMO
Was thinking something similar to both of your comments... very competitive people tend to also be winners more frequently, whether because of willingness to work harder, just the will/hunger to win, drive, etc. Therefore, because they win more, winning becomes more expected and more common. Losing is more of a foreign feeling/occurence, therefore more painful and a more hated feeling than is the level of "love of winning".
@RJM posted:Is “goy” a slur? No
Don’t try to be the board language police.
Unreal...just made my first post in months, as I had to take a hiatus due to all the self righteous Covid talk/opinions. Shame on me for thinking that was behind us.
Not responding to you RJM, but the OP you’re reacting to.
@PTWood posted:@CoachB25 whatever you deleted, you were most likely preaching to the choir. Most people who have answered here have kids who played, are playing or will play at very high levels so I wouldn't make any assumptions about what they are willing to do.
I don't think I made assumptions. I've been on this board for years and a moderator here since Julie took ownership. I hope that I have a pretty good idea of who posts here. I apologize if you were offended by my post.
Got it Coach B!! :-) Not offended at all. Was trying to say it sounds like what you wrote and deleted (I assume it was something along the lines of...getting upset after a loss doesn't mean a thing if you aren't willing to go back to the lab to put in the HARD work to make the improvements needed to put yourself in a better position to win next time) was something that these players already take very much to heart. Similar to your response...my bad if I misinterpreted.
P
@CTbballDad posted:Unreal...just made my first post in months, as I had to take a hiatus due to all the self righteous Covid talk/opinions. Shame on me for thinking that was behind us.
Not responding to you RJM, but the OP you’re reacting to.
Dang I’m glad I don’t even understand what the 3 of you are talking about😖
If you hate to lose, can you be on a losing team and still love to play?
Ernie Banks was on a lot of losing Cubs teams. Did he hate to lose, or love to win? He's famous for loving to play.
Great point @anotherparent! But I bet he was doing all he could personally and as a dugout leader to turn the W/L record around.
@cabbagedad posted:Was thinking something similar to both of your comments... very competitive people tend to also be winners more frequently, whether because of willingness to work harder, just the will/hunger to win, drive, etc. Therefore, because they win more, winning becomes more expected and more common. Losing is more of a foreign feeling/occurence, therefore more painful and a more hated feeling than is the level of "love of winning".
Agree 100%.
My son’s practice this morning was rained out. On the way home he asked if I had any luck finding a PS5 yet for Christmas. No Jewish members of our immediate family.
We have several posts here that are off topic. I also received several alerts to this thread. I am going to clean up this thread and hope that members will post on the topic. I would appreciate it.
I have now cleaned up this thread which has much to offer. This discussion really could be enlightening to many members. Please stay on topic and avoid personal attacks.
Thanks in advance,
Darrell
@RoadRunner posted:Dang I’m glad I don’t even understand what the 3 of you are talking about😖
😁
In an attempt to get this thread back on topic, a part of what I deleted in my one post were comments about when I changed high schools from a school that was an area power in most sports to a school that had a reputation for losing at all sports. For example, I was told that I would be the head coach of the girl's basketball team. I didn't want that. Still, I didn't have a choice. That program had won 3 games each year for 10 straight years. They were terrible. Now, I was thrust into the challenge. I was told that I had one year to turn both programs into winners. I'll save you the boring story but we did it. My hatred to lose was my driving factor.
On a tangent to this, since winning is a lot more fun than losing, one consideration for players (and their parents 
) looking at college programs is winning %. It's a heck of a lot more fun winning, and if you are very competitive person, losing can really grind on your psyche'
As a Coach of our Summer Santa Rosa team playing teams from Northern California and Nevada. We played Carson City home of Matt Williams. Their players wore shorts and defeated our team "badly". Our players were ready to "give up".
I invited Ron McNutt, [C
arson City Coach] the Nevada, HS Coach of the year [later I name Ron to Coach our 1st American team to play National HS Japan]. I ask Ron, "can you speak to our players".
Ron told the players "all 1st year teams have difficulty adjusting to the next level"
For the next 4 years, Pro Scouts recognized Santa Rosa, as a strong team. In these 4 years, over 40 players in our League, later played in the MLB.
Personally, I obtained info from all the visiting Coaches. "Canti" is the Japanese word for constant improvement.
Bob
Agree, BOF. That’s one of the columns in son’s little spreadsheet of colleges. Over the past 5 years, are they a winning, losing, or break even team?
I asked him last night which described him more. He said hate to lose, but with the caveat that it also depends a lot on the teammates. If everyone is busting their ass and they just didn’t get the W, that’s easy to handle. What he really can’t stand is when you have the poison players on the team. They can even make victories seem hollow.
His 15U team had 2 of those, and he said likely would have quit the game if it hadn’t been for the HS summerball team he was also playing on. It wasn’t just the winning that he enjoyed, but it was the fact that EVERYONE on that team was pulling in the same direction as hard as they could.
I have one lid that wears every emotion on her face and one that shows nothing. My daughter on the outside looks like the most competitive person I’ve seen. So many people have told me she is Gun to watch. It’s all out there. She likes to win but cannot stand losing. Can’t even talk without getting emotional after a loss. You want her on your team because she will do anything she can to carry her team. My son rarely ever shows emotion but I know he is competitive. I’ve only really seen him show emotion one and it was after a state semi loss. It was all over his face. I don’t even have to ask. He hates losing.
@CoachB25 posted:In an attempt to get this thread back on topic, a part of what I deleted in my one post were comments about when I changed high schools from a school that was an area power in most sports to a school that had a reputation for losing at all sports. For example, I was told that I would be the head coach of the girl's basketball team. I didn't want that. Still, I didn't have a choice. That program had won 3 games each year for 10 straight years. They were terrible. Now, I was thrust into the challenge. I was told that I had one year to turn both programs into winners. I'll save you the boring story but we did it. My hatred to lose was my driving factor.
Was it an ultimatum to turn around a bad hoops team in one year? What was the AD’s thought process and urgency to demand it be turned around in one year? Other than the coach, what changes were there to make him feel like that were a reasonable expectation? Congrats to you for doing it!
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Was it an ultimatum to turn around a bad hoops team in one year? What was the AD’s thought process and urgency to demand it be turned around in one year? Other than the coach, what changes were there to make him feel like that were a reasonable expectation? Congrats to you for doing it!
I was a very controversial hire which is an understatement. To be honest, I was driven, the girls cried a lot, we went into gyms where they had been beaten the previous year by 30 or 40 points and we won. We were listed in Streets and Smith as one of the top 100 up and coming HS teams in America. Then, the parents revolted and wanted me to stop coaching the way I do and just let their daughters have fun. I did and resigned. Four years later, I think it was, the girl's bb team won zero games. The following year, they won 2. To be honest, I spent so much time scouting and watching game film that I was starting to be a terrible dad so I resigned to be a dad to my daughter. She went on to be pretty good so the trade-off was worth it.
For baseball, the team didn't have an outdoor hitting cage and the thing they called a cage on the inside fell down all of the time and had a white net. It was horrible and dangerous. When I resigned, we had 3 70' cages, 2 45' cages, 2 rolling backstops for bp, 6 full size hitting mats, 3 pitching machines, 3 portable mounds for inside, 2 rolling portable mounds for outside bp, ... We became an area power.
@CoachB25 posted:I was a very controversial hire which is an understatement. To be honest, I was driven, the girls cried a lot, we went into gyms where they had been beaten the previous year by 30 or 40 points and we won. We were listed in Streets and Smith as one of the top 100 up and coming HS teams in America. Then, the parents revolted and wanted me to stop coaching the way I do and just let their daughters have fun. I did and resigned. Four years later, I think it was, the girl's bb team won zero games. The following year, they won 2. To be honest, I spent so much time scouting and watching game film that I was starting to be a terrible dad so I resigned to be a dad to my daughter. She went on to be pretty good so the trade-off was worth it.
Nice job! Some kids/parents are just afraid to be coached and pushed to limits they didn’t know they could reach. Unfortunately, there are probably more of those today than those willing to do the extra needed to win.
To kind of piggyback off of Cabbagedad...
I come from a golf background. I was fairly successful and had several D1 offers. I worked and worked...the winning was never enough. Then came the scholarship offers from programs I’d worked to get offers from. One day it hit me, is this it? I worked my tail off for those offers and they were a huge disappointment. I realized I had been working hard bc I HATED TO LOSE. The winning was a bi-product. It was a hard realization. All of a sudden the big schools meant nothing to me. My mindset changed and I ended up at a DII and had the time of my life. Less stress and bright lights. It worked out the way it was supposed to, and I’m thankful for that.
FWIW-I asked my son and, without hesitation, his answer was hate to lose. He said he works and expects to win, which makes losing harder. I just hope he doesn’t get the mindset I had and enjoys a few of the wins.