He is max effort and I wish he'd glide...
Any advice?
A few details, sophomore, 6 foot, 180, throws 80 on a good day, good control... He is just burning himself up awfully quick.... I would like to see him get more innings
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I am sorry that no one answered.
I don't know what to tell you but if it will make you feel any better, my son is the opposite, looks loose, great mechanics, throws hard yet burns himself up as well. And it wasn't because he wasn't conditioned properly.
He moved to the bullpen end of last season. It was becoming difficult to manage his outings threw too many pitches so THANK THE LORD FOR PITCH COUNTS!
Maybe someone will come along with suggestions, is he a starter? Maybe that just isn't right for him, at this time.
I don't know what to tell you but if it will make you feel any better, my son is the opposite, looks loose, great mechanics, throws hard yet burns himself up as well. And it wasn't because he wasn't conditioned properly.
He moved to the bullpen end of last season. It was becoming difficult to manage his outings threw too many pitches so THANK THE LORD FOR PITCH COUNTS!
Maybe someone will come along with suggestions, is he a starter? Maybe that just isn't right for him, at this time.
Skip, Have you ever let him keep going to see how long he lasts? Sometimes kids need to figure this out for themselves on how to pace themselves. Does he pitch out of the stetch always? Do you consider Trevor Bauer a max effort guy? Does he condition himself with long toss? Just some thoughts. There are a lot of pitching coaches who want to get their gliders to max effort. LOL.
quote:Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
He is max effort and I wish he'd glide...
Any advice?
A few details, sophomore, 6 foot, 180, throws 80 on a good day, good control... He is just burning himself up awfully quick.... I would like to see him get more innings
What you’re describing shouldn’t be at all surprising, what with it being a fairly normal philosophy to get kids to learn throw hard, because they can be taught to “pitch” later. Part of pitching is understanding that for a starter or middle reliever, going 100% of max effort on every pitch ain’t gonna make it, but its not something that comes automatically, and the chances of having a HS pitching coach who understands that and has the ability to teach well enough to get him to change, isn’t very high.
My guess is, he needs the guidance of a private coach he would respect and trust, to get him to understand the difference between pitching and throwing. Do a little research in your area, and see what you can come up with. It costs very little to do the research.
trojan-skipper,
I'm probably not going to tell you something you don't already know. But just in case, I'll throw out a couple simple things you might want to consider.
Max Effort is more of a scouting term to describe the mechanics and arm action of a pitcher. Truth is that most pitchers throw with max effort. Some just make it look easier and smoother than others.
Try to have your son throw pretending he is holding (throwing) a very ripe tomato. Often with younger guys they will tend to hold the ball too tight. This tends to tighten up everything and make things look stiff rather than smooth and effortless. Not saying this is a problem with your son, but it has been a problem for many other young guys.
One more thing to check... Look closely at his face when he throws. Often pitchers make some strange faces at release, but watch for clenched jaw (grinding teeth). When this happens, it also can tighten the neck and shoulders, even the fingers, causing a tighter grip and stiffer delivery, both which can cause loss of velocity while giving the appearance of max effort.
Often people only think of the arm and mechanics when it comes to the delivery. There are several other things, not so obvious, that can actually create problems.
It's hard to tell what, if anything, your son can do to smooth things out. Some just never look smooth and effortless. It's not the end of the world, there are max effort guys in the big leagues. They're usually relievers, though.
Best of luck
I'm probably not going to tell you something you don't already know. But just in case, I'll throw out a couple simple things you might want to consider.
Max Effort is more of a scouting term to describe the mechanics and arm action of a pitcher. Truth is that most pitchers throw with max effort. Some just make it look easier and smoother than others.
Try to have your son throw pretending he is holding (throwing) a very ripe tomato. Often with younger guys they will tend to hold the ball too tight. This tends to tighten up everything and make things look stiff rather than smooth and effortless. Not saying this is a problem with your son, but it has been a problem for many other young guys.
One more thing to check... Look closely at his face when he throws. Often pitchers make some strange faces at release, but watch for clenched jaw (grinding teeth). When this happens, it also can tighten the neck and shoulders, even the fingers, causing a tighter grip and stiffer delivery, both which can cause loss of velocity while giving the appearance of max effort.
Often people only think of the arm and mechanics when it comes to the delivery. There are several other things, not so obvious, that can actually create problems.
It's hard to tell what, if anything, your son can do to smooth things out. Some just never look smooth and effortless. It's not the end of the world, there are max effort guys in the big leagues. They're usually relievers, though.
Best of luck
thanks for the comments folks. (not my son, just one of the players on my team). He gets soreness in his elbow at about 30-some pitches in a game, yet he can bullpen all day. he worked pretty hard all of Feb. to get ready.
at this point, he is probably going to wind up being a closer but i know both of us would like to see him start and throw 5 or 6 innings...
thanks for the advice... anything else is always appreciated and considered
have a good day everyone
at this point, he is probably going to wind up being a closer but i know both of us would like to see him start and throw 5 or 6 innings...
thanks for the advice... anything else is always appreciated and considered
have a good day everyone
quote:Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
He gets soreness in his elbow at about 30-some pitches in a game, yet he can bullpen all day.
Did he check that out, that sounds familiar and the pitcher I know with that same issue had a nerve issue.
I'll be the voice of concern....
Freshman year my son threw 100% on every pitch, didn't pitch too many innings or throw over 100 pitches in an outing but by August he had elbow pain which turned out to be a tear (in two places) of the UCL and Tommy John surgery followed. He was a 6' 3" 190lb kid too. The arm sometimes can't keep up with the max effort and breakdowns occur (especially in kids 15-17). The elbow pain could be the tear forming too. Might want him to get checked out just in case....
Freshman year my son threw 100% on every pitch, didn't pitch too many innings or throw over 100 pitches in an outing but by August he had elbow pain which turned out to be a tear (in two places) of the UCL and Tommy John surgery followed. He was a 6' 3" 190lb kid too. The arm sometimes can't keep up with the max effort and breakdowns occur (especially in kids 15-17). The elbow pain could be the tear forming too. Might want him to get checked out just in case....
Any kind of pain or soreness after throwing is a red flag in my view. Could be as simple as tendonitis, or something more serious. I think limiting innings is just masking a problem that probably should be checked out.
How about this? Ask him to throw with about the same intensity in the game as he does in his bullpen. There are advantages to this other than just helping him to last longer on the bump. My experience has been that when you take a little off, a couple of things are possible.
One is your control is a little better. It is better to throw with a little less velocity and put the ball where you want then throw all out and not know where the ball is going. Everyone talks about Greg Maddux's velocity and how he wouldn't even be in the MLB today with his velocity. Well, Maddux could throw a lot harder than he did in games. He was consistently a 90+ guy in HS and college. I know a guy that played on the Braves with him and he told me Maddux could throw 94-95 if he wanted to, but was more effective throwing 88-90.
The other advantage is, often times you will get more movement on your ball if you are not throwing "all out". That was the other part of Maddux and what my friend told me. He said Maddux got much more movement by not going all out. He took that everyday over trying to blow it by guys.
Explain these advantages to your pitcher and try to get him to visualize that he is just throwing a bull pen when he gets out there on the mound in a game. It may help him last longer and he may reap additional benefits as well.
Just my layman's opinion, hope it helps.
One is your control is a little better. It is better to throw with a little less velocity and put the ball where you want then throw all out and not know where the ball is going. Everyone talks about Greg Maddux's velocity and how he wouldn't even be in the MLB today with his velocity. Well, Maddux could throw a lot harder than he did in games. He was consistently a 90+ guy in HS and college. I know a guy that played on the Braves with him and he told me Maddux could throw 94-95 if he wanted to, but was more effective throwing 88-90.
The other advantage is, often times you will get more movement on your ball if you are not throwing "all out". That was the other part of Maddux and what my friend told me. He said Maddux got much more movement by not going all out. He took that everyday over trying to blow it by guys.
Explain these advantages to your pitcher and try to get him to visualize that he is just throwing a bull pen when he gets out there on the mound in a game. It may help him last longer and he may reap additional benefits as well.
Just my layman's opinion, hope it helps.
