RJM posted:Go44dad posted:Somehow I knew this thread would swing around to how good your offspring play. At least you are consistent.
Yes, I was bragging. Relative to college prospects he was a face in the crowd. Hey everybody. Look out there that's my kid. He's not any better than your kid. Take notice.
It was a reference point relative to my response to BBALL. Since you want to go for personal attacks here's one for you. GFY.
Hint: starts with Go.
Why would two people like this??
GFY was unexpected and it is funny, almost too funny. Although I did not like it with the like reply, I do think the response is hilarious. Everyone needs a sense of humor
RJM posted:BOF posted:HSBBW corollary number 1.
1. Actual velocity = "ask dad" subtract 7.
What's the fastest way to increase velocity?
Have dad post it online.
PG profiles are the new truth serum!
2forU posted:GFY was unexpected and it is funny, almost too funny. Although I did not like it with the like reply, I do think the response is hilarious. Everyone needs a sense of humor
Wow.
No offense and I did not take the original GFY with any malice, just a timely and unexpected twist, it's just my sense of humor. I like just about everyone's posts, even some of the crap that has come my way, and I attempt to take and give everything to help make things more enjoyable. Maybe GFY will be the new LOL, somehow I doubt it.
hshuler posted:RJM posted:BOF posted:HSBBW corollary number 1.
1. Actual velocity = "ask dad" subtract 7.
What's the fastest way to increase velocity?
Have dad post it online.
PG profiles are the new truth serum!
Maybe for the guys who get seen a lot and if you're willing to interpret the ranges. My experience with less well known players (which is almost everyone) is that there are lots of errors in the peak velocity numbers, and not always enough samples to spot the outliers (or people are dismissive of the outliers).
Not that it really matters for pretty much anyone. Guys who throw hard enough to get anyone's attention don't need a PG number to prove it to anyone, and the marginal velocity guys (and plenty of the ones who aren't marginal) are always going to have to prove their ability on the field anyway, so no one who matters cares about those numbers either.
Well there you go...
Nobody cares about the numbers!
PGStaff posted:Well there you go...
Nobody cares about the numbers!
LOL - That's exactly why everyone turns and looks those beautiful scoreboards after every pitch, right?
2forU posted:No offense and I did not take the original GFY with any malice, just a timely and unexpected twist, it's just my sense of humor. I like just about everyone's posts, even some of the crap that has come my way, and I attempt to take and give everything to help make things more enjoyable. Maybe GFY will be the new LOL, somehow I doubt it.
I don't think you had to explain but it was appreciated.
RJM posted:Go44dad posted:Somehow I knew this thread would swing around to how good your offspring play. At least you are consistent.
Yes, I was bragging. Relative to college prospects he was a face in the crowd. Hey everybody. Look out there that's my kid. He's not any better than your kid. Take notice.
It was a reference point relative to my response to BBALL. Since you want to go for personal attacks here's one for you. GFY.
Hint: starts with Go.
Hey RJM! Reworked your logo for you!
2020dad posted:2forU posted:GFY was unexpected and it is funny, almost too funny. Although I did not like it with the like reply, I do think the response is hilarious. Everyone needs a sense of humor
Wow.
Wow indeed. Everyone needs a sense of humor until the GFY is directed at you. 
Go44dad posted:RJM posted:Go44dad posted:Somehow I knew this thread would swing around to how good your offspring play. At least you are consistent.
Yes, I was bragging. Relative to college prospects he was a face in the crowd. Hey everybody. Look out there that's my kid. He's not any better than your kid. Take notice.
It was a reference point relative to my response to BBALL. Since you want to go for personal attacks here's one for you. GFY.
Hint: starts with Go.
Hey RJM! Reworked your logo for you!
You launched a personal attack on me. I gave a short reply. You obviously want to continue the personal attack volley. Why anyone wanted to pour gas on this fire days later is beyond me. The best way to handle this is I won't engage immature morons.
RJM posted:Go44dad posted:RJM posted:Go44dad posted:Somehow I knew this thread would swing around to how good your offspring play. At least you are consistent.
Yes, I was bragging. Relative to college prospects he was a face in the crowd. Hey everybody. Look out there that's my kid. He's not any better than your kid. Take notice.
It was a reference point relative to my response to BBALL. Since you want to go for personal attacks here's one for you. GFY.
Hint: starts with Go.
Hey RJM! Reworked your logo for you!
You launched a personal attack on me. I gave a short reply. You obviously want to continue the personal attack volley. Why anyone wanted to pour gas on this fire is beyond me. I guess it's just the increase in punk know it all posters of freshman baseball players. Others have complained about these posters. Their ignorance is amusing. It's interesting they prefer to attack experienced posters and tell them how it is rather than learn. It's probably best to ignore these ignorant posters.
RJM: Unfortunately you made it back to post before i did. I was going to strongly suggest that you take a step back and breath and chill out.
Maybe a few days off would be helpful for you?
I've tested the Pocket Radar Ball Coach model sitting directly behind home plate next to multiple MLB scouts. They had Stalker guns. Our readings were identical a good amount of the time. If there was a consistent variance, the PR was about 1 mph under on the fastball. The off speed readings were usually the same. Keep in mind, there were variations between the identical Stalker guns as well. No more or less than between the Stalker and the PR. The most any reading was ever off was 3 mph and this was the exception. 1-2 mph was the typical difference over 3 innings between all the guns.
I have tested the PR Ball Coach sitting directly behind home plate at a high school game next to a JUGS gun. The readings were within 1-2 mph on most pitches. The JUGS gun read higher when they were different.
I have cross referenced my Pocket Radar BC readings with posted Showcase results for several high school pitchers. The readings matched, though they did fall on the lower end of the stated range. This makes sense. PG and PBR will post the peak velocity of a pitcher. But where they sit in a game situation, especially from the stretch, will be lower than peak by 3-4 mph. If a kid has a fastball of 85 online, he probably sits 81-82 in a game. But parents may choose to remember just the peak value.
This is where the parent confusion comes in with the radar gun, regardless of the model. I have had multiple people tell me the PR Ball Coach doesn't work, despite all my testing to the contrary. And these people mind you, have never even used the device themselves. A kid might legitimately throw a ball 90 mph from a running start. He may throw 85 peak velocity from the mound, airing it out, without concern for location. But in a game, having to throw strikes, and locate his stuff, he sits 81-82 mph. Add in throwing from the stretch, stress, fatigue, cold weather or a bad day, and the cruising velo could be even lower. And that is why the radar gun is "wrong", and the parents are right.
Hammer823 posted:I've tested the Pocket Radar Ball Coach model sitting directly behind home plate next to multiple MLB scouts. They had Stalker guns. Our readings were identical a good amount of the time. If there was a consistent variance, the PR was about 1 mph under on the fastball. The off speed readings were usually the same. Keep in mind, there were variations between the identical Stalker guns as well. No more or less than between the Stalker and the PR. The most any reading was ever off was 3 mph and this was the exception. 1-2 mph was the typical difference over 3 innings between all the guns.
I have tested the PR Ball Coach sitting directly behind home plate at a high school game next to a JUGS gun. The readings were within 1-2 mph on most pitches. The JUGS gun read higher when they were different.
I have cross referenced my Pocket Radar BC readings with posted Showcase results for several high school pitchers. The readings matched, though they did fall on the lower end of the stated range. This makes sense. PG and PBR will post the peak velocity of a pitcher. But where they sit in a game situation, especially from the stretch, will be lower than peak by 3-4 mph. If a kid has a fastball of 85 online, he probably sits 81 in a game. But parents may choose to remember just the peak value.
This is where the parent confusion comes in with the radar gun, regardless of the model. I have had multiple people tell me the PR Ball Coach doesn't work, despite all my testing to the contrary. And these people mind you, have never even used the device themselves. A kid might legitimately throw a ball 90 mph from a running start. He may throw 85 peak velocity from the mound, airing it out, without concern for location. But in a game, having to throw strikes, and locate his stuff, he sits 80-81 mph. And that is why the radar gun is "wrong", and the parents are right.
Good stuff - Hammer!
I know that PG posts the highest velocity but they also posts fastball ranges as well.
Yes. And from my experience, the parents only remember the peak or top end of the range and think that is where they "sit". My live results in games over several innings tend to hit the lower end of stated ranges. I guess one could add 1 mph to the typical PR Ball coach reading from my experience.
hshuler posted:Hammer823 posted:I've tested the Pocket Radar Ball Coach model sitting directly behind home plate next to multiple MLB scouts. They had Stalker guns. Our readings were identical a good amount of the time. If there was a consistent variance, the PR was about 1 mph under on the fastball. The off speed readings were usually the same. Keep in mind, there were variations between the identical Stalker guns as well. No more or less than between the Stalker and the PR. The most any reading was ever off was 3 mph and this was the exception. 1-2 mph was the typical difference over 3 innings between all the guns.
I have tested the PR Ball Coach sitting directly behind home plate at a high school game next to a JUGS gun. The readings were within 1-2 mph on most pitches. The JUGS gun read higher when they were different.
I have cross referenced my Pocket Radar BC readings with posted Showcase results for several high school pitchers. The readings matched, though they did fall on the lower end of the stated range. This makes sense. PG and PBR will post the peak velocity of a pitcher. But where they sit in a game situation, especially from the stretch, will be lower than peak by 3-4 mph. If a kid has a fastball of 85 online, he probably sits 81 in a game. But parents may choose to remember just the peak value.
This is where the parent confusion comes in with the radar gun, regardless of the model. I have had multiple people tell me the PR Ball Coach doesn't work, despite all my testing to the contrary. And these people mind you, have never even used the device themselves. A kid might legitimately throw a ball 90 mph from a running start. He may throw 85 peak velocity from the mound, airing it out, without concern for location. But in a game, having to throw strikes, and locate his stuff, he sits 80-81 mph. And that is why the radar gun is "wrong", and the parents are right.
Good stuff - Hammer!
I know that PG posts the highest velocity but they also posts fastball ranges as well.
This brings up a good question. How do scouts/recruiters look at, say a kid that "sits" 83-85, but tops out at 88-89? Do they take the attitude that he's a low-mid 80's kid or do they take the view that if he can throw 89 that is a future indicator of where he'll be given time?
Not sure but it might depend a little on what zip code the pitch at 89 lands in.
roothog66 posted:hshuler posted:Hammer823 posted:I've tested the Pocket Radar Ball Coach model sitting directly behind home plate next to multiple MLB scouts. They had Stalker guns. Our readings were identical a good amount of the time. If there was a consistent variance, the PR was about 1 mph under on the fastball. The off speed readings were usually the same. Keep in mind, there were variations between the identical Stalker guns as well. No more or less than between the Stalker and the PR. The most any reading was ever off was 3 mph and this was the exception. 1-2 mph was the typical difference over 3 innings between all the guns.
I have tested the PR Ball Coach sitting directly behind home plate at a high school game next to a JUGS gun. The readings were within 1-2 mph on most pitches. The JUGS gun read higher when they were different.
I have cross referenced my Pocket Radar BC readings with posted Showcase results for several high school pitchers. The readings matched, though they did fall on the lower end of the stated range. This makes sense. PG and PBR will post the peak velocity of a pitcher. But where they sit in a game situation, especially from the stretch, will be lower than peak by 3-4 mph. If a kid has a fastball of 85 online, he probably sits 81 in a game. But parents may choose to remember just the peak value.
This is where the parent confusion comes in with the radar gun, regardless of the model. I have had multiple people tell me the PR Ball Coach doesn't work, despite all my testing to the contrary. And these people mind you, have never even used the device themselves. A kid might legitimately throw a ball 90 mph from a running start. He may throw 85 peak velocity from the mound, airing it out, without concern for location. But in a game, having to throw strikes, and locate his stuff, he sits 80-81 mph. And that is why the radar gun is "wrong", and the parents are right.
Good stuff - Hammer!
I know that PG posts the highest velocity but they also posts fastball ranges as well.
This brings up a good question. How do scouts/recruiters look at, say a kid that "sits" 83-85, but tops out at 88-89? Do they take the attitude that he's a low-mid 80's kid or do they take the view that if he can throw 89 that is a future indicator of where he'll be given time?
I think it just depends on what stage of development they feel that the kid is in. So, we're really back to the "projectability" thing again.
hshuler posted:roothog66 posted:hshuler posted:Hammer823 posted:I've tested the Pocket Radar Ball Coach model sitting directly behind home plate next to multiple MLB scouts. They had Stalker guns. Our readings were identical a good amount of the time. If there was a consistent variance, the PR was about 1 mph under on the fastball. The off speed readings were usually the same. Keep in mind, there were variations between the identical Stalker guns as well. No more or less than between the Stalker and the PR. The most any reading was ever off was 3 mph and this was the exception. 1-2 mph was the typical difference over 3 innings between all the guns.
I have tested the PR Ball Coach sitting directly behind home plate at a high school game next to a JUGS gun. The readings were within 1-2 mph on most pitches. The JUGS gun read higher when they were different.
I have cross referenced my Pocket Radar BC readings with posted Showcase results for several high school pitchers. The readings matched, though they did fall on the lower end of the stated range. This makes sense. PG and PBR will post the peak velocity of a pitcher. But where they sit in a game situation, especially from the stretch, will be lower than peak by 3-4 mph. If a kid has a fastball of 85 online, he probably sits 81 in a game. But parents may choose to remember just the peak value.
This is where the parent confusion comes in with the radar gun, regardless of the model. I have had multiple people tell me the PR Ball Coach doesn't work, despite all my testing to the contrary. And these people mind you, have never even used the device themselves. A kid might legitimately throw a ball 90 mph from a running start. He may throw 85 peak velocity from the mound, airing it out, without concern for location. But in a game, having to throw strikes, and locate his stuff, he sits 80-81 mph. And that is why the radar gun is "wrong", and the parents are right.
Good stuff - Hammer!
I know that PG posts the highest velocity but they also posts fastball ranges as well.
This brings up a good question. How do scouts/recruiters look at, say a kid that "sits" 83-85, but tops out at 88-89? Do they take the attitude that he's a low-mid 80's kid or do they take the view that if he can throw 89 that is a future indicator of where he'll be given time?
I think it just depends on what stage of development they feel that the kid is in. So, we're really back to the "projectability" thing again.
I think that's definitely relevant. My experience is that kids will cruise at a certain velocity and top out a little higher. Eventually, the gap starts closing a bit followed by a move in the top velocity. The cycle continues until a kid is fully developed (for many not until they are in their twenties). So, when I see a kid throw 89, even if he's sitting at 84, I have to believe that he's shown the capability to reach that higher number and, as a recruit, that's where I'd be looking to- what can he be throwing a year from now. Two years? Three years?
Could well be that Nolan Ryan threw more pitches in MLB games than anyone in history, though it's possible Cy Young would hold that honor. Young threw almost 2,000 more innings than Ryan, but given the era in which he pitched, he might well have been so much more efficient that Ryan may have passed him.
If we're looking at all of professional baseball and not just MLB games, there is no question in my mind who threw the most pitches: Satchel Paige.
Many years ago I attended a clinic where a pitching coach said the three most important things and in the following order were location movement velocity. Yet everybody is stuck on velocity. On that note we once played a team who had a kid who threw hard. Our kid not so much. We won in a low scoring 2-1 or 3-2 game After the game I was talking to the losing pitcher and he was lamenting how he got beat by a kid who threw nowhere near him. I said simple you walked 5 and hit 2. He had no walks threw strikes.
Will posted:Many years ago I attended a clinic where a pitching coach said the three most important things and in the following order were location movement velocity. Yet everybody is stuck on velocity. On that note we once played a team who had a kid who threw hard. Our kid not so much. We won in a low scoring 2-1 or 3-2 game After the game I was talking to the losing pitcher and he was lamenting how he got beat by a kid who threw nowhere near him. I said simple you walked 5 and hit 2. He had no walks threw strikes.
All 3 are important to be succesful.
FWIW the pitcher with the best ACC ERA and I think second in the country overall is Pat Krall from Clemson. I think his FB tops out at 86 on a good day. But one of the top 5 for the draft is from Florida and hits 100. Not as accurate as Krall but it's pretty hard for anyone to catch up to that velocity.
TPM posted:Will posted:Many years ago I attended a clinic where a pitching coach said the three most important things and in the following order were location movement velocity. Yet everybody is stuck on velocity. On that note we once played a team who had a kid who threw hard. Our kid not so much. We won in a low scoring 2-1 or 3-2 game After the game I was talking to the losing pitcher and he was lamenting how he got beat by a kid who threw nowhere near him. I said simple you walked 5 and hit 2. He had no walks threw strikes.
All 3 are important to be succesful.
FWIW the pitcher with the best ACC ERA and I think second in the country overall is Pat Krall from Clemson. I think his FB tops out at 86 on a good day. But one of the top 5 for the draft is from Florida and hits 100. Not as accurate as Krall but it's pretty hard for anyone to catch up to that velocity.
Yeah, I was going to note that Puk is indeed considered a top 5 guy. In the mean time, Logan Shore throws low 90s, wicked movement on a change up, good curve, is 10-0, including beating Vandy and their highly rated starter last night. He is also Florida's number one guy. Yet he might get into back of the first round, and is considered a number three guy in a MLB rotation. Go figure.
Teaching Elder posted:TPM posted:Will posted:Many years ago I attended a clinic where a pitching coach said the three most important things and in the following order were location movement velocity. Yet everybody is stuck on velocity. On that note we once played a team who had a kid who threw hard. Our kid not so much. We won in a low scoring 2-1 or 3-2 game After the game I was talking to the losing pitcher and he was lamenting how he got beat by a kid who threw nowhere near him. I said simple you walked 5 and hit 2. He had no walks threw strikes.
All 3 are important to be succesful.
FWIW the pitcher with the best ACC ERA and I think second in the country overall is Pat Krall from Clemson. I think his FB tops out at 86 on a good day. But one of the top 5 for the draft is from Florida and hits 100. Not as accurate as Krall but it's pretty hard for anyone to catch up to that velocity.
Yeah, I was going to note that Puk is indeed considered a top 5 guy. In the mean time, Logan Shore throws low 90s, wicked movement on a change up, good curve, is 10-0, including beating Vandy and their highly rated starter last night. He is also Florida's number one guy. Yet he might get into back of the first round, and is considered a number three guy in a MLB rotation. Go figure.
98 allows you to make many more mistakes, and get with them, than 86. Plus power pitching wins in the postseason. It's nice to be able to make a guy swing and miss...and ultimately strike out with runners on second and third with one out versus pitching to contact and having a guy duck fart one between first and second for a hit. I know it doesn't always work out that way and it's not fair but it is what it is.
So the bottom line is that to be a successful pitcher you have to get hitters out.
The only difference between the 3 named by that coach is that velocity is money in the bank.
The way I've seen it explained years ago on another board is that between the two scouts value velocity over accuracy. The reason being they feel they can teach control, you can't teach 95.
That jives with the stories I've heard of scouts canvasing places like DR, PR, ect. When they find a kid throwing "cheddar" (as my son would say) they send them to the states. They're given a certain amount of time to develop or it's back to the 3rd world.
SomeBaseballDad posted:The way I've seen it explained years ago on another board is that between the two scouts value velocity over accuracy. The reason being they feel they can teach control, you can't teach 95.
That jives with the stories I've heard of scouts canvasing places like DR, PR, ect. When they find a kid throwing "cheddar" (as my son would say) they send them to the states. They're given a certain amount of time to develop or it's back to the 3rd world.
That's not quite accurate.
MLB teams have built baseball academies to develop young talent.
Teaching Elder posted:TPM posted:Will posted:Many years ago I attended a clinic where a pitching coach said the three most important things and in the following order were location movement velocity. Yet everybody is stuck on velocity. On that note we once played a team who had a kid who threw hard. Our kid not so much. We won in a low scoring 2-1 or 3-2 game After the game I was talking to the losing pitcher and he was lamenting how he got beat by a kid who threw nowhere near him. I said simple you walked 5 and hit 2. He had no walks threw strikes.
All 3 are important to be succesful.
FWIW the pitcher with the best ACC ERA and I think second in the country overall is Pat Krall from Clemson. I think his FB tops out at 86 on a good day. But one of the top 5 for the draft is from Florida and hits 100. Not as accurate as Krall but it's pretty hard for anyone to catch up to that velocity.
Yeah, I was going to note that Puk is indeed considered a top 5 guy. In the mean time, Logan Shore throws low 90s, wicked movement on a change up, good curve, is 10-0, including beating Vandy and their highly rated starter last night. He is also Florida's number one guy. Yet he might get into back of the first round, and is considered a number three guy in a MLB rotation. Go figure.
A couple of years ago there were two starters from the same college that went early in the first round. Here were their junior year stats heading into the draft:
Pitcher A: 6-8 record, 3.31 ERA, 114 IP, 119 K
Pitcher B: 13-2 record, 1.25 ERA, 136 IP, 203 K
Pitcher A (Gerrit Cole) was picked first overall, Pitcher B (Trevor Bauer) went a couple of picks later. The scouts knew what they were doing.
TPM posted:SomeBaseballDad posted:The way I've seen it explained years ago on another board is that between the two scouts value velocity over accuracy. The reason being they feel they can teach control, you can't teach 95.
That jives with the stories I've heard of scouts canvasing places like DR, PR, ect. When they find a kid throwing "cheddar" (as my son would say) they send them to the states. They're given a certain amount of time to develop or it's back to the 3rd world.
That's not quite accurate.
MLB teams have built baseball academies to develop young talent.
Understood, but I said "years ago". The poster on that thread even gave numbers, Like a plane ticket to the US and $1000 spending money, and if a wash out a ticket back and $500.
SomeBaseballDad posted:TPM posted:SomeBaseballDad posted:The way I've seen it explained years ago on another board is that between the two scouts value velocity over accuracy. The reason being they feel they can teach control, you can't teach 95.
That jives with the stories I've heard of scouts canvasing places like DR, PR, ect. When they find a kid throwing "cheddar" (as my son would say) they send them to the states. They're given a certain amount of time to develop or it's back to the 3rd world.
That's not quite accurate.
MLB teams have built baseball academies to develop young talent.
Understood, but I said "years ago". The poster on that thread even gave numbers, Like a plane ticket to the US and $1000 spending money, and if a wash out a ticket back and $500.
But its not years ago. These guys are drafted (international) from the academies and others signed for more than american born players. They are the ones who get a 1000 dollars and a plane ticket. True not everyone of them become millionaires, but they cant come until they are 18, and then many spend many years in the lower camps to develop.
We have had this discussion, latin players make up a substantial number of ML players. Not too many throw hard but when they do at 16, they get paid lots of money. And if they can hit and run fast, a lot too.
The point I was addressing was accuracy vs velocity and which is more sought after at the MLB level.
