"He throws too slow"?

I hear this as well, and it really makes me mad. Especially when a kid who receives some sort of post season award uses this as an excuse for why he can't hit.

I've heard it mainly from kids 15 years old. They have been working so much on developing bat speed for the fast ball that they cannot adjust easily.

It really isn't an excuse in some cases but an explanation of the inability to make the adjustment.

These guys are not really good hitters, but good fastball hitters.

If word gets out that your team is a good fastball hitting team, you'll see nothing but junk for the rest of the year.

quote:

Originally posted by Quincy:
I've heard it mainly from kids 15 years old. They have been working so much on developing bat speed for the fast ball that they cannot adjust easily.

It really isn't an excuse in some cases but an explanation of the inability to make the adjustment.

These guys are not really good hitters, but good fastball hitters.



I agree, but good hitters may even struggle on a one game basis. Good teams and good hitters will adjust after short adjustment period sometimes only 1 or 2 at bats. I have always believed in taking BP one session a week with slow pitches. The idea of "work the middle" helps with this problem.

If word gets out that your team is a good fastball hitting team, you'll see nothing but junk for the rest of the year.

Chameleon's "torque" comes into play here.

A lot of kids first move with the hands is forward. The toe touches down, and the hands come forward (pull the knob) in an attempt to be as quick as possible.

Between toe touch and heel down, there is an instant where the hands torque before they come forward. The hands rotate around the point between the hands (rear elbow begins downward movement and the front forearm slightly elevates). It accomplishes a couple of things....including the ability to get the barrel into swing plane without committing the hands into forward movement. This allows for adustment during the pitch to recognize velocity and trajectory. It also allows the hands to maintain movement (objects in motion stay in motion), so if the pitch is off speed and the hitter has mistimed it...the hands haven't stopped dead, resulting in an interruption in momentum.

Chameleon is right on in his "running start" description.

One of the initial issues with younger batters is the degree of rotation and rear elbow dropping. Be careful to not allow movement to become so exagerated that the elbow drops too early into "vertical to ground" angle, which causes bat drag. Good old "pepper" with some snap in the hands is a good training toool.

quote:

Originally posted by plp556: Does any one else actaully agree with the saying "He just throws to slow, I can't hit him"

I coached travel softball through 18U and travel baseball through 15U. I have my own saying when I here this complaint from players. "Learn to adjust or you won't succeed at the next level."

Usually moving up in the box and keeping the hands back is enough.

quote:

Usually moving up in the box and keeping the hands back is enough.

Why not stay in the back of the box and learn to hit??

I'm just asking....

I've said this before and im 15... as Quincy said. Yeah you might think that since he throws slower than what you've been seeing recently, you can't hit him. Wrong, as Bluedog's statement is true, you either learn to hit it and quit complaining, or never hit him and fail.

The "pitcher is too slow" excuse, is code for "I have no adjustability".

This generally means the players's swing is still too long. Fix the swing and that excuse goes away.

And...

noreast is right on the mark. Whenever the first move of the swing is not the hands torquing the handle of the bat you will stuggle with adjustability. In other words, if handle torque is not your first move.....you have slop/slack in your swing and it becomes very difficult to adjust pitcher to pitcher.

tom.guerry said something VERY smart the other day.

Something like...."the further your launch trigger is from the barrel, (hips) the more you will stuggle."

OR......

He might have said "the closer your launch trigger is (hands) to the barrel the more adjustability you'll have.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

Usually moving up in the box and keeping the hands back is enough.

Why not stay in the back of the box and learn to hit??

I'm just asking....

I agree! I don't like moving around in the box from one at bat to another. Keeping everyhing consistent is one of the keys to hitting. IMO

When you can't hit a "too slow pitcher" is just because you are swinging before the ball gets to the point of contact. So even you knowing that the pitcher is "so slow", you still swingnig like if he were trowing 90 miles per hour. Just wait longer than usual to start your swing, and enjoy that fraccion of second to reconize the pitch movement, it location, and then you will become a better hitter.
Don't try to kill the fly with a rolled newspaper when the fly is flying over your head, choose a spot, wait for the fly to get close, and SWING!

A hitter with less than adequate mechanics can not "just wait".

His mind is programmed that he needs "X" amount of time to execute his swing. And the player learns just what that time is. Then, he carves out the appropriate amount of time to hit. The problem is his swing includes slop/slack.

Now he has more time than usual. What does he do with it? When does he start? How does he "fill the time". These are problems.

What they end up doing is creating more slop/slack and then when it's time to "go".....he's too slow.

IF his swing was as short as necessary.....meaning no slack, the time to execute the swing is as small as possible, then an only then does "just wait a little longer" come into play.

The swing must be instantaneous. Only the high level mlb players are that short.

quote:

The swing must be instantaneous. Only the high level mlb players are that short.

And, is the reason why they can hit both speed and offfspeed.....

Moving around in the box isn't the answer.....Neither is hands back....

Loading earlier enough to hit speed and then knowing how to hold the momentum and stretch for something slower is where it's at....It's what great hitters do....

As Chameleon stated....

quote:

Now he has more time than usual. What does he do with it? When does he start? How does he "fill the time". These are problems.

Too often, the answer is:... "and keeping the hands back is enough."

Without knowing what to do, keeping the hands back means stopping them. The first batch of kids leave baseball when they move up from small field to big field. The next batch leave when offspeed pitches can't be solved. That advice increases the number of players at lacrosse tryouts.

The original question it doesn't mention if the hitter do have or don't have adequate mechanics. I think that without adequate mechanics nonbody can hit and period. But the only way to hit an slower pitch (with or without adequate mechanics) it is to wait until the ball get to you, and period.

Keep it studying.

You'll get soon.

Hopefully not late and too.

I knew it...I knew it.... finally you said something that make sense.

Is my computer reading this with dyslexia? Suddenly, nothing makes sense. lmao

Rich, Rich, lay off the hard stuff man. That's for your paying customers not the owner of the bar.

Move up in the box for slow pitching but move back for fast pitching.....

Hands back for offspeed but not for fastball....

Shoot low sheriff they're riding shetland ponies....

One pitcher had 17 Ks in the bigs today. On sports center, they said over half were on the change. Even MLB players get fooled and have trouble with the changeup. I was talking yesterday to a young lady who just wrapped up her D-I Softball career and is now giving lessons on pitching. She's 5th all-time in our state's records in Ks. She said no matter who they are, they are susceptable to the change. I believe that the U of Arizona proved that this year in the College World Series for Softball. Oh, did anyone see the young man for the Yankees today who came in to relieve? 98 mph fastball and 78 mph change. All three Ks he had in his inning of relief were on the change. I just thought I'd add some examples for this thread.

the thread was about kids who face a pitcher who is "too slow". Not good at changing speeds and fooling hitters.

"Too slow".

From the first pitch to the last, "too slow". Every one of them.

And, hitters who are able to hit pitchers who throw at a speed to which they are accustomed. Then, face the guy who throws "too slow", and K or P3, 4-3, etc, and blame the inability to adjust to the "too slow".

Not recognition problem. Adjustability problem.

I understand exactly what this thread was about. It was mentioned, in other's responses, that hitters have the ability to adjust and a changeup was given as an example. Therefore, I gave an example of MLB players having a hard time doing that.

I also understand that I disagree with much of the information stated in this thread but that's another story.

Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

The swing must be instantaneous. Only the high level mlb players are that short.

And, is the reason why they can hit both speed and offfspeed.....

Moving around in the box isn't the answer.....Neither is hands back....

Loading earlier enough to hit speed and then knowing how to hold the momentum and stretch for something slower is where it's at....It's what great hitters do....

As Chameleon stated....

The reason I usually avoid hitting conversations is there are too many self proclaimed gurus who rather than ask for clarification, make assumptions and jump all over the poster. Then ten hitting gurus come out of the woodwork and do their Epstein v. Englishby v. Mankin v. pick your own expert. By the time these gurus finish going around in circles you could cut and paste their debates and they look almost identical.

I'll clarify once and not respond afterwards. I can't stand hitting debate pee'ing matches. If any posters ID what they're names are on other sites I know what your response will be before you post it.

"Keep your hands back"

Young hitters tend to get the hands moving forward too soon on offspeed pitchers. They also tend to open up too soon. If they stay back like they should for any pitch they have a better chance of being successful.

"Move up in the box"

It's the pre high school players who typically have a problem with slower pitchers. By high school, if hitters haven't adjusted they're out of the game or on the bench.

Since pre high school pitchers tend not to have hard breaking pitches, by moving up in the box the hitter takes away the opportunity for this pitcher to be successful. He takes away the breaking pitch along with the pitcher not having the ability to put a fast ball by him.

Riiiiiiiight.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

Usually moving up in the box and keeping the hands back is enough.

Why not stay in the back of the box and learn to hit??

I'm just asking....

TG. this would an example of something I very much agree with.

Yes, you're right and there is too much of the peeing contest going on. For all readers and posters, you have to decipher the crapola and then decide what is best for you. I have my opinions. I understand others and don't agree. Some like Bluedog have the ability to discuss issues and ask very important questions while others change their views depending upon what day it is.

Back to the initial topic which I haven't weighed in on. I think that there is a point where every hitter has to ask a very simple question. Is my swing so efficient that I have time to read the pitch or do I have an inefficient swing and have to launch early in order to hit the ball. I recently viewed a set of swings were the hitter was successful in 3 frames of video. In such an efficient swing, the hitter has all of the time in the world to see the ball and adjust. Still at the risk of sounding redundant, that makes one wonder why the changeup is such a devestating pitch. Of course, where effective it is used with a fastball that is considerably faster.

Chameleon, I never cease to wonder why you're here. You have the solution, have your own website with all of your video posted, analysed and all of your critiques of how everyone else's ideas are wrong. Why then would you post here? The masses surly have flocked to you. Of course, it may be possible that the masses aren't flocking. One would wonder why? Remaining post deleted - Past Post from Teacherman regarding the hands and Dated August 2006! Guess I don't need to hijack this thread any more than has already been done.

Because you need saved.

Richard thanks for the laugh. I'm glad someone realized that I needed saved. Of course it could just be the heat we've endured around here. Rain this week. That'll be nice.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
Because you need saved.

And you're the one to do it? :laugh:

Red, he's no longer "just a mere Guru"

Maybe he should be called "The Baseball Mesiah" forever more!

We could call him TBM for short.

What are you doing on these common boards, shouldn't you be out there saving baseball people on more important boards, or better yet in person? I think it's time for you to begin journey/quest. Remember us well.

Do MLB hitters move up in the box against guys like Wakefield or Moyer ? It does seem as though it would be helpful to minimize the time / distance a junk baller has for his pitches to break when the FB is no real threat. May be sound strategy when gravity is the pitcher's best friend

quote:

Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
Do MLB hitters move up in the box against guys like Wakefield or Moyer ? It does seem as though it would be helpful to minimize the time / distance a junk baller has for his pitches to break when the FB is no real threat. May be sound strategy when gravity is the pitcher's best friend

I think I've heard it mentioned that sometimes players will move up in the box against pitchers who throw good splitters in order to try to make contact before the ball tumbles too low. I'm not certain about knuckleballers though.

Remember - Chameleon is the same guy - just with a different id (for the umpteenth time) - that strongly recommended young kids smashing a baseball bat into a 300 pound bag of sand.

Isnt that special? LOL

This is the same guy that called us all idiots - years ago - when we tried to get him to understand how important the hands, wrists and forearms are in a baseball swing.

Now - he is talking about the hands and their importance in the swing process. LOL

Next month he will be yapping about the pinky toe - and toe rotation - and its importance in the swing process. And he will post a video of Barry Bondoid wiggling the left pinky toe.

LOL

Welcome to cyber world.

Caveat emptor.

Here is the latest pile of d-u-n-g

"Slop/Slack."

"Handle torque."

How about perfumed BS? LOL

And then - the classic Bluedog rejoinder - on the heels of the Chameleon:

Quote the Doggie:

"Move up in the box for slow pitching but move back for fast pitching.....

Hands back for offspeed but not for fastball."

Absolutely profound Doggie - just awe inspiring advice.
Bravo!!!

LOL

quote:

"Move up in the box for slow pitching but move back for fast pitching.....

Hands back for offspeed but not for fastball."

Neither of these so-called solutions is what great hitters do, IMO.....

quote:

Even MLB players get fooled and have trouble with the changeup.

Yes, change-ups and really fast fastballs are what all hitters struggle with.....

The greats hit more of them.....Why, and how, is what we strive to learn.....

Interesting enough, I seem to recall an OLD video of Chameleon's son hitting a changeup and, while it wasn't perfect, he was able to sit and hit that ball opposite. It reminded me of the one move drill where the body sits the hands are still connected and the hips are under control as the kenetic chain responds to the offspeed pitch. I would suggest to anyone that understands this statement and the one move drill (not for me to explain here) that the ability to hit any off speed pitch is directly related to how efficient one can do that drill.

(I apologize for being so vague on the "one move drill" but I've agreed not to discuss certain things in this forum. Hitting drills such as this are a part of that agreement and unless given permission, I have to leave it at that.) I do think that perhaps Bluedog and Chameleon understand that concept as it realtes to hitting both offspeed pitches and pitchers who throw slow.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
where the body sits, the hands are still connected

This does not happen in a high level swing. There is no connection until launch. Connection in a high level swing is an instantaneous event. PCR and PCRW, with the lead elbow up in the swing plane are not connected. They are tied in knots with tension in the torso and shoulder complex. Tension that the body can not overcome in the given time frame. And the result.........bat drag. Bat drag is inherent to PCR and PCRW. They will not rid themselves of it until the torque the handle.

There is no connection without handle torque.

And, if I were you, I'd study that sitting stuff. You can't sit and rotate around the front leg. If I were you I'd ask them which one to get rid of. On second thought, no I wouldn't.

PCR and PCRW's facts and absolutes couldn't be more jumbled and wrong.

A technique that may help with kids having trouble hitting "slow" pitching is to have them at an "all-around" batting cage facility and go from the "major league" cage(80-85 mph) to the little league cage (35-40 mph) and hit the 55-65 mph cage at times too depending on how they adapt.

Tim Robertson