One thing that is pretty clear from simple observation is that exit speeds of baseballs from bats are significantly higher than from arms. No pitcher could ever throw a ball where batters are able to hit them. Not every ball is hit that way, but the ones that are show the upper limits of speed.
Frankly, my biggest concern on this count is the little leaguer age, where I see 135-180 pound hitters with lively bats who can hit the ball a mile, with the pitcher standing about 42 feet away on release.
quote:Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
2) If the processing and reacting does happen normally, the pitcher has some time to defend himself. But it's harder if the pitcher is falling off to one side, since that affect his ability to recognize that the ball is coming toward him, and also slows the movement of his glove. Some pitchers aren't even facing the batter as they complete the pitching motion. It does seem to me that a pitcher who ends up in an athletic, balanced stance with his glove in front of his chest or neck has a better chance to avoid head injury than one who is off balance with his glove still tucked, or perhaps dropped behind him.
3FG is right. You got to look at the video as well to determine if you think he was in the proper landing position and where his glove was. I am not sure if this would have prevented anything, but just a thought.
The cards seem to have a black cloud following them this season, too many injuries.
BTW, cards milb player got it in the mouth a few weeks before season ended, he's a position player.
The younger the pitcher, the more he is vulnerable to serious injury. Injuries are inherent to the game, serious ones as well, metal or wood, the only thing is they are so much more devastationg with metal, so not sure where the argument comes in that changes in bats on the youth and college level. Again, lots of concerns, but parents are still out there spending loads of money on the rocket launchers so their kids can hit farther.
Where do you draw the line, I just don't see face masks, perhpas head gear, perhaps protective eyewhere and mouth guards. The game (especially pitchers) is just not played with loads of body armour, and I doubt that will change. I see no problem with implimenting it in youth bb, until the pitcher learns to fully protect himself, that takes a long time. JMO.
quote:Originally posted by Prime9:quote:How about if pitchers work on improving their reactions?
A hitter has roughly two tenths of a second to react to a 90mph fastball; not enough time to see, recognize and move out of harms way in many instances.
A batted ball can travel at higher speeds and the pitcher is closer after release making what you suggest physiologically impossible unless the ball "hits your glove" that hopefully is protecting your head.
Not sure I follow what you're saying. Batters work on drills to improve their ability to react to pitches. Are you saying pitchers can't do the same for batted balls? If you look at the Bryce Florrie video in slow motion you can see that he was reacting to the ball and that his glove just missed at least partially blocking the ball. My thought is if he had practiced this specific skill he may have been able to at least get a piece the ball.
Besides what's the downside of pitchers working on improving this skill set and their ability to react in this situation?
quote:Originally posted by Pedropere:
One thing that is pretty clear from simple observation is that exit speeds of baseballs from bats are significantly higher than from arms. No pitcher could ever throw a ball where batters are able to hit them. Not every ball is hit that way, but the ones that are show the upper limits of speed.
Frankly, my biggest concern on this count is the little leaguer age, where I see 135-180 pound hitters with lively bats who can hit the ball a mile, with the pitcher standing about 42 feet away on release.
This is an issue I have with my son, who is an 8th grader. Some of these kids he plays against are 14 year olds and some of them are 6'1, 165 pounds. Add to that the rolled -9 drop CF4s and other juiced bats that these kids play with and I get very concerned. He is pitching from 54 feet but that is still too close with some of these monsters.
One game a couple of weeks ago (fall ball) some kid hit a rocket that must have been doing 100mph right at his head. How he managed to get his head out of the way and get his glove up to snag that amazes me. He was as proud as proud can be but it got me looking forward to high school where such bats won't be seen.
Last year I did a research project about wood vs. metal. This part fits here:
"Experts believe that 97 mph is the fastest that a ball can be traveling for a pitcher to defend himself against it (Keteyian, 2002) It is determined that 0.400 seconds is the required time to evade a batted ball (Nicholls, Miller, Elliot, 2005). The highest Ball Exit Velocity or BEV obtained in a study in 2005 was that of a metal bat at 0.282 seconds. The highest BEV achieved in the study with a wood bat was 0.377 seconds. Both of these times are below the pitcher reaction threshold, but it is clear that the metal is far and away faster and gives the pitcher almost no chance with a hard hit ball."
Quite a difference.
"Experts believe that 97 mph is the fastest that a ball can be traveling for a pitcher to defend himself against it (Keteyian, 2002) It is determined that 0.400 seconds is the required time to evade a batted ball (Nicholls, Miller, Elliot, 2005). The highest Ball Exit Velocity or BEV obtained in a study in 2005 was that of a metal bat at 0.282 seconds. The highest BEV achieved in the study with a wood bat was 0.377 seconds. Both of these times are below the pitcher reaction threshold, but it is clear that the metal is far and away faster and gives the pitcher almost no chance with a hard hit ball."
Quite a difference.
I recommend reading this paper.
The authors used high school and college pitchers, outfitted them with catcher's gear, had them pitch from the mound at Long Beach State, and fired balls back at the pitcher's heads with a Jugs pitching machine at speeds up to 130mph.
At 100mph, the pitchers could reliably catch the ball, and one college pitcher could sometimes catch the ball at 120 mph.
Of course, from a safety point of view, "could sometimes catch" isn't the issue. Instead safety should be interested in those instances when the pitcher didn't avoid the batted ball.
However, the study shows that pitchers do have time (sometimes) to not only avoid injury, but to even make the play.
The authors used high school and college pitchers, outfitted them with catcher's gear, had them pitch from the mound at Long Beach State, and fired balls back at the pitcher's heads with a Jugs pitching machine at speeds up to 130mph.
At 100mph, the pitchers could reliably catch the ball, and one college pitcher could sometimes catch the ball at 120 mph.
Of course, from a safety point of view, "could sometimes catch" isn't the issue. Instead safety should be interested in those instances when the pitcher didn't avoid the batted ball.
However, the study shows that pitchers do have time (sometimes) to not only avoid injury, but to even make the play.
Haven't read the article, I don't think you can put a specific speed to a batted ball that could possibly get by the pitcher's glove, it could actually be a 100 mph ball or even a ball hit off the end of the bat which the pitcher expected to come faster and over committed and just miss the batted ball. Infielders all make mistakes, it is just more dangerous for the pitchers.
quote:However, the study shows that pitchers do have time (sometimes)
SOMETIMES is the point I think. When you see the replays of recent MLB instances where the pitcher was drilled in the head so hard that the ball ended up in the stands or in the dugout, you see the pitcher appeared as if he really had NOT YET finished his follow-thru (i.e., his momentum was still propelling him forward).
I'm not saying I would want to wear headgear while pitching or that it should be mandated. But, I am saying I think in many instances they ARE defenseless AND I would be more at ease watching if it were my Son and he was protected. Again, I wouldn't send him to the plate at this level without a helmet because there are those pitches you WONT get away from.
if you told the pitcher, on the next pitch , the ball will be a come-backer, he could probably keep himself safe or even make a play. But after 500 or 1000 pitches he will some focus , and in that instant is all he needs to get injured.
LAball, I was thinking the same thing on the pitcher knowing the ball was coming back.
On a totally different note, have you pitcher dads seen this?
Could be a great option.
Looks like a great OPTIONAL addition to the pitching attire. Wear it if you want to wear it and don't if you choose not to. I would also think it would be a great option for batters since they are injured far more frequently from pitched balls vs. pitchers getting nailed from balls hit back at them and both can have devastating results.
Like I said earlier...someone is going to figure this out and make a mint. It's looks like a great OPTION all the way around.
On a totally different note, have you pitcher dads seen this?
Could be a great option.
Looks like a great OPTIONAL addition to the pitching attire. Wear it if you want to wear it and don't if you choose not to. I would also think it would be a great option for batters since they are injured far more frequently from pitched balls vs. pitchers getting nailed from balls hit back at them and both can have devastating results.
Like I said earlier...someone is going to figure this out and make a mint. It's looks like a great OPTION all the way around.
My earlier comment in this thread was not related to head gear as much as metal bat technology. However even though I think it would be strange for pitchers to wear head gear, it might come to pass. Sadly it will probably take a well known major leaguer to be severely injured or killed, but after that, there will be a movement to mandate protective gear for pitchers.
After Hawksworth was hit in the head Saturday afternoon, he was in the hospital overnight and received 20 stitches.
He did not lose consciousness at the ball park nor at the hospital.
CT scan was negative.
He did not lose consciousness at the ball park nor at the hospital.
CT scan was negative.
quote:
Frankly, my biggest concern on this count is the little leaguer age, where I see 135-180 pound hitters with lively bats who can hit the ball a mile, with the pitcher standing about 42 feet away on release.
I think that's a great point. Before they make that jump to 60 feet 6 inches, 42 feet from those big hitters at the age can get dicey.
Stu