Headfirst Success - Midwest help :)

Read your post and was curious what school your son decided on? Please let us know!

Hello Louise,

We haven't really gotten close to a decision yet... my son is likely going to apply to most of the 10 or so schools whose coaches are interested, but he's going regular decision with all of them.  Here's a bit more info on our situation... not sure how unique we are!

We're in a bit of a quandary financially.  Our family income is enough to likely prevent us from getting "needs based aid" but it's not enough, realistically, to afford the $60k-$65k tab for most of the D3 private schools.  More to the point - we are in CA, and my son's academics are likely good enough to get him in to a very, very good UC school (.e.g., Berkeley) where he wouldn't be able to play baseball - but top notch academically and with a price closer to $30k. 

So his Mom and I have told our son that it's going to be very tough for us to, essentially, "pay" for him to play baseball in college.  We thought travel ball was expensive - ha!  We need him, one way or another, to find some "money" to get the overall sticker price down to the range of the UC schools. 

When regular decisions are in, we'll look at the big picture and hopefully one of the schools high on his list will be a good fit in all of the dimensions - academics, baseball, and finances.  We've identified schools on his list which tend to give out not only pure needs based aid but also merit-based aid.  There are some awesome sites (collegedata.com is one of them) which has helped us with this.

We also decided to take a trip to the midwest before Thanksgiving - visited Macalester, Carleton, and Grinnell.  All three are staying on the list, but he is now able to rank the three schools in his mind.  We likely will wait until March to visit the east coast schools on his list (Denison, Stevens Tech, Brandeis being the top three right now).

Feel free to PM me if you'd like more details on our midwest trip.

Steve

FWIW: Grinnell has a huge endowment. Hence, it has the ability to offer more merit aid than the others on your list. I chatted with Mac's ad com guy last year at a conference and he explicitly stated what many colleges think when they review aid packages for homeowners in major cities in California--home prices/equity indicate wealth, mortgages notwithstanding. Which complicates the EFC in a CSS profile application. Which may be a reason to go with a FAFSA-only school. 

Also: hate to say this about my undergrad and grad school alma mater but...given the choice b/t any on your son's list of schools and a UC...go private! UCs are not what they used to be. 

Great list of schools. Good luck in the decision!

FWIW, CNBC did a story on Stevens Tech a few years back. If your son has any interest in the financial area, ST is a place to consider; extremely well respected in banking and finance. 

Also, if Aldins is still their coach (he's still listed on their site), your son would be playing for a young, energetic, passionate coach who really turned their program around. Aldins previously coached at MIT and Harvard and knows how to reach that balance of athletics and academics. He was an extremely straight shooter when I first met him seven years ago at MIT.

Remember the first offer is not always the best. With your sons academics, he shouls qualify for many of these schools honors scholarships. Many D3's have schcolar days, where they bring students to campus and they compete for academic scholarships. These usually happen in March.

In April financial packages come out. Many students apply to many schools, and as they accept packages from one school, the money they were offered becomes available at the school's they did not go to. Some of that money can become available to the undecided. We went back to the well at many of the schools and almost every one came up with additional money.

It is also a good tme to see the inner workings of addmissions. How do they treat your son during this process? Do they respond quickly? Or do they string him along? This can be a pretty good indication on how he will be treated once he is on campus. My son went through the same process. When all was said and done the cost was not that much more than a State U. for him. 

NEinmyblood, yours is yet another story that makes D3 recruitment sound like a highwire act.  I guess that can be true for D1 and D2 as well but I don't think your average D1 or D2 recruit has 10 applications in. 

It also has to be a highwire act for any coaches who don't get most of their recruits to apply ED.

We are also in CA (though our 2017's numbers aren't as gaudy as your sons) and I agree that it's great to have  a UC as a backup should the private school/baseball thing not work out.

Great posts!  Some replies...

@ Al Pal: very interesting comment about UCs not being what they used to be... hmmm.  Chances are we will end up going the D3 private route based on the baseball angle.  And yes, I do know about the Grinnell endowment - they and Denison appear to be, at least on average, the most generous based on merit aid for high academic students.

@ Goose egg: agree with you on Coach Aldins (Stevens).  He actually called my son about 2 hours after Headfirst Florida ended, and has been one of 2 most diligent coaches in keeping in touch. Very impressed with him, along with Coach Parrington (Macalester).

@ BishopLeftiesDad: great stuff, thank you!  I am still learning about the admissions nuances.  For example: Grinnell said we needed to get the app in by 12/1 to be considered for merit aid, even regular decision.  And we've found that, while all coaches would prefer ED vs regular, some of the admissions officers insist there really is no difference.  I think it's more about the coaches knowing if their needs have been filled earlier vs having to play the waiting game until March.  As for the finances being "negotiable"... I guess that's what we're kind of hoping - I've heard that some colleges may actually be more generous for regular decision students since it can be a more competitive situation as opposed to ED, but I don't know if that's really true.  Feels almost counter-intuitive.

@ JCG: you are absolutely right - it is a high-wire act.  What I've found is that, for "tweeners" like us financially (make too much to get aid, not enough to realistically afford $260k for 4 years), it's really tough.  Frankly, my son's #1 choice based on geography is Pomona, but because they are needs-based aid only, it's probably a long shot.  Kind of stinks, but we are trying to just roll with things and see where things fall in the end.

Thanks for all the good info....I have been reading posts for almost a year and have received lots of excellent advice. Son is 2017 catcher from CA so you will probably see more questions from me over the next couple months!

Your son sounds very similar to mine as far a D3 recruiting. He has an offer to play at CMS but like you is very expensive. He should get into at least one of his UC schools based on his test scores and grades. He is also applying for and academy as well.  

Glad you were able to make the Midwest trip.  We think the world of Coach Parrington.  He's outstanding.  Ditto Coach Aldins...he recruited my 2012 while at Harvard.

My 2016 got his first acceptance last week.  We do not qualify for aid and will not be doing a FAFSA.  Yet 2016 got almost $30K per year in merit money.  His ACT is nowhere near your 2016's. 

Many of these D3 liberal arts colleges have lots of $.  It is worth applying.  It's definitely worth getting a pre-read from Admissions regarding both possible acceptance and potential merit award.  

EA and ED are generally very beneficial wrt admissions.  The admit rate at most schools is substantially higher going EA or ED.  Coaches prefer it too of course and it tends to be when they have their "pull" with admissions.  We referenced collegedata.com often in this admissions process when checking out schools.  E.g., Grinnell's most recently reported info shows an ED admission rate of 52% vs. an overall admission rate of 28%.

Branson, sent you a PM

Branson Baseball posted:

My 2016 got his first acceptance last week.  We do not qualify for aid and will not be doing a FAFSA.  Yet 2016 got almost $30K per year in merit money.  His ACT is nowhere near your 2016's. 

Many of these D3 liberal arts colleges have lots of $.  It is worth applying.  It's definitely worth getting a pre-read from Admissions regarding both possible acceptance and potential merit award.  

Branson, congrats! Can you share which school it is?

Is there a list of high academic schools which offer merit-based (or anything other than need-based) scholarships?

Most of the schools we looked at with our 2016 had an outline of their merit-based scholarships online - all of the D3 academic schools that recruited him did anyway.  Only one would probably be considered "high" academic but I easily found the info online when I looked. 

Bogey, this might help, as far as lists go.

http://www.nytimes.com/interac...e/8edlife_chart.html

You'll have to pull out of this list the D3 schools you're interested in.

As MK noted, each of the schools 2016 looked at had their average merit award listed online.  We also talked to 2016's college counselor at his high school to get a sense of previous awards to kids from his school.  And he asked his Admissions counselor at each college for a pre-read for both admission and merit award.

Some of the schools had specific criteria listed on their websites.  We looked at a number of schools in the SAA (a top D3 baseball conference with very solid academic schools in the South).  Millsaps was one that I recall had a matrix for merit awards based on ACT/SAT and GPA.  The $ were pretty impressive...these schools have a lot of merit money.  Financial Aid would be on top of the merit money.

I'd rather not say which schools have admitted 2016 so far.  He's still waiting to hear from several more. 

I would consider what they post on-line to be a starting point. Almost every school he was accepted to started with the awards listed online.  And almost every school came back and beat that with better awards. One school even eventually offered to come down to his EFC. unfortuantely he really did not like the school. 

We are solidly middle class and most of the schools offers were very close with their initial packages. In most cases when we went back to the FA office, the sweetened the deal.

smokeminside posted:

Bogey, this might help, as far as lists go.

http://www.nytimes.com/interac...e/8edlife_chart.html

 

You'll have to pull out of this list the D3 schools you're interested in.

Found an updated version of this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com...r-the-affluent/1526/

Of the 4 colleges OP mentioned, Denison looks like the most generous with merit-aid, with 42% receiving aid and average of $18609; While Carleton, with 4% receiving aid and average of $2000, is the least generous.

Thanks for the updated list!

For those of us with a 2016 or later who isn't going to Amherst, Williams, or Haverford, this list confirms what we found "on the road".  There are some real D3 gems here if your player will look beyond the NESCAC and cream of the Centennial.  And some real money to be had.  Denison, Oberlin, Rhodes, Centre, Wooster, Muhlenberg, Lawrence, Washington College, Southwestern, Clark, et.al.  I've visited all of these and left very impressed.  Many more, including OWU, Puget Sound, Willamette, St.Olaf, Hendrix, Hope...lots of these schools are detailed in "Colleges That Change Lives".  Can't recommend that book and these schools enough.

Branson Baseball posted:

For those of us with a 2016 or later who isn't going to Amherst, Williams, or Haverford, this list confirms what we found "on the road".  There are some real D3 gems here if your player will look beyond the NESCAC and cream of the Centennial.  And some real money to be had.  Denison, Oberlin, Rhodes, Centre, Wooster, Muhlenberg, Lawrence, Washington College, Southwestern, Clark, et.al.  I've visited all of these and left very impressed.  Many more, including OWU, Puget Sound, Willamette, St.Olaf, Hendrix, Hope...lots of these schools are detailed in "Colleges That Change Lives".  Can't recommend that book and these schools enough.

Go Bishops

Bogeyorpar posted:

smokeminside posted:

Bogey, this might help, as far as lists go.

http://www.nytimes.com/interac...e/8edlife_chart.html

 

You'll have to pull out of this list the D3 schools you're interested in.

Found an updated version of this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com...r-the-affluent/1526/

Of the 4 colleges OP mentioned, Denison looks like the most generous with merit-aid, with 42% receiving aid and average of $18609; While Carleton, with 4% receiving aid and average of $2000, is the least generous.

 

 

Awesome resource.  Thanks.

So, I'm going to play the master of the obvious here.  It isn't that Denison is the most generous and Carelton is the least generous with merit aid...it has nothing to do with "generosity".  It has everything to do with market conditions of supply and demand....number of applicants and number of accepted applicants.  When you look at those numbers; Carelton has  30% more applicants and 50% less admitted students then it makes more sense.  Carleton also had a higher percentage of admitted who enrolled which means Carleton was their first choice.  Now, I know very little about these schools academics and baseball but I think a broader perspective is needed here.  Merit aid by itself is a decent tool for measurement but look at the bigger picture and how it works for you.  There is a reason Denison (or any school....fill in the blank) gives a lot of merit aid....it has nothing to do with generosity....I guarantee it.   They are competing for the best students just like any other school, and they are most interested in bumping up their academic numbers so they have to give less merit money next year.   If a school is getting many  top students and they want to go to that school as their first choice, why on earth would you give money away....because the school knows their school will be selected.

As always, JMO.

Following up on that last reply on competition.  There were three Centennial Conference schools that recruited my 2016 after Headfirst.  I'm not a Centennial Conference expert but I think that two of those schools would be considered lower end of the conference academics/reputation wise (but higher baseball wise) and the third was higher up on the academic/reputation scale in the northeast - oh, and US News and WR ranking.  The first two schools are very aggressive with their marketing outreach from admissions and are promising lots of merit aid - right up through this week.  These are general mailings and specific emails from admission counselors (the emails don't really promise anything but they continue to ask to meet and promise "preferred status" for merit aid).   The mailings provide very specific details about the amount of aid available as a base level for GPA/SAT range.  This is all independent of the coaches.  If our 2016 wanted to go to either of these schools I think he'd have a very good shot of getting a significant chunk of his tuition covered - esp if I went back to them and told them where he applied.  Of course, the school he applied ED was not as aggressive.  Almost to the point of being passive.  But in our view it's a much better school and was a great fit for him baseball wise.  

To pile on to what Fenway and MK have noted, I'll say "of course"!!!  The NESCAC and top Centennial schools don't have to give the same amount of merit money.  The Ivys don't.  Any of the top "in demand" schools don't.

For kids like my 2016 who can't spell Williams, there are a tier of schools below the top of the D3 that are pretty darn good schools with solid baseball that do provide a lot of merit aid.  Out here in Cali, there's a lot of folks who feel it must be a UC, Cal State, or state school elsewhere to financially work for their family.  In my experience, a great alternative is to look at these D3 private schools.

The list price of Bates College is about $60K.  They're the US News 25th ranked national liberal arts college.  About a 25% acceptance rate.  0% on merit aid.  The list price of Centre College is about $45K.  They're the US News 45th ranked NLA.  ~70% acceptance rate and ~36% on merit aid (with an average award ~$19K).  So for many families, that Centre College # is starting at $26K before financial aid.  In the same conference is Rhodes College.  Great baseball program.  51st NLA per US News.  ~$50K list price.  ~$18K in average merit award. 

The discussion clearly needs to be about more than merit awards or total $.  There's many, many more factors.  And, in my experience, these tier of D3 programs just beneath the upper echelon are great schools with solid baseball programs and conferences, and in some cases, very generous merit packages.  They are worth a look.

For the "in demand" schools, aren't they squeezing out middle class students? The schools cost $60K a year and don't offer merit aid or sports scholarships. Really rich families don't care. "Poor" families get generous need-based aids and get in for (almost) free. For the "tweeners", who's rich enough to be above the need-based bar and poor enough to care about $60K a year, it almost doesn't make sense to go to these schools.

Totally agree with Fenway and Branson and MK about the market force behind the merit aid. These schools are smart to sense the squeeze on middle class and utilize it to enhance their own academics. I've met with a UPS (not the delivery company but Univ of Puget Sound) admission director and her first question was "how much do you think it costs to attend UPS?" and then explained that after merit aid, tuition at UPS is often lower than the in-state tuition of U. Washington.

Bogiepar you make good points.  Admissions and financial people know the deal. From what I've seen, if a private school wants a CA kid to attend, they'll make the kid an offer that's competitive with UC, whether it's need-based or merit or a combination.