Height and weight-embellish or be truthful?

the boys height and weight iswhat it is

First of all it's hardly any difference at all and really no distiction between these stats.

Second - why would you want to embellish the size of a 2014 who is 6'4" and almost 200#. Absolutely no reason for that. He's already bigger than 99% of his classmates. IMO this raises a red flag about this coach.

Ive had the opportunity to attend a number of pro scout events lead by a great Rockies scout....he has each player fill out a card with stats....he then calls each player up to give him the card....

This scout is a good 6'2".....the first thing he does is look at the card, then the player....

I asked him about this....checking height?....yup, he said... I got to find out who is lying....

passing comment made to me personally...take it for what its worth....

I used to put 6'0" by default as my height, I had remember being measured around there by my doctor.

My dad measured me not so long ago and it turns out I'm actually just a hair under 6'1" barefoot. Guess I lied the wrong way! I was at least an honest 6'2" in cleats.

Just give the most accurate information possible. That 6'5" could still come true one day, he's still young

TR is correct. Always add an inch for spikes, since the game is not played in bare feet.

I have to agree with fillsfan about raising a red flag about that coach. And I also wondered why you need to bump up the height and weight of a kid that big.

I think honesty is always the best policy. I surely wouldn't want to "embelish" something that can be proven wrong so easily!

True Story: Son went to a practice recently attended by some area scouts. Anyway, he was asked his height. My son said 6'1". Then, he measured them. Son was 6'1 1/4." (He had them take their cleats off.) Anyway, now I won't feel bad about him always being registered as 6' 2", given what was just said about adding for the cleats. I always register him as 6' 1", and it always gets changed to 6" 2". I assure you it isn't him or his family that changes it. Gues 3/4" is ok.

The part he was so proud about was the weight. He was asked, "what he went-- about 190?" Son said, "No sir, about 210." The scout told my son he must have some muscle hidden under there, because he sure didn't look 210. That made my son's day. In reality, I think he's about 205, but he was afraid he might pull a scale out as well!! (Our family suffers from the "pleasantly plump" category, and it's just as hard to lose weight as it is to gain weight-- believe me.

I might embellish 5'9" but not 6'3"

When my son went on football visits, every recruit, whether 5'5 or 6'5, wore Timberland boots.

I think there are two categories here: those who flat out lie, and those who "round up". Rounding up isn't bad, but don't go crazy!

quote:

The part he was so proud about was the weight. He was asked, "what he went-- about 190?" Son said, "No sir, about 210." The scout told my son he must have some muscle hidden under there, because he sure didn't look 210. That made my son's day. In reality, I think he's about 205, but he was afraid he might pull a scale out as well!! (Our family suffers from the "pleasantly plump" category, and it's just as hard to lose weight as it is to gain weight-- believe me.

In our family we refer to it as being genetically advantaged for gaining weight.

quote:

Originally posted by Catching101:
I think there are two categories here: those who flat out lie, and those who "round up". Rounding up isn't bad, but don't go crazy!

I'll have to use that one!

Kid we've known for years was listed at 6 0 or even up to 6 1, is now listed at 5 11 his freshman year in college. :-D

quote:

This scout is a good 6'2".....the first thing he does is look at the card, then the player....

I asked him about this....checking height?....yup, he said... I got to find out who is lying....

If the scout is a true baseball guy then the scout is really 5'9". They all lie.

Twotex-- I guess we would call it genetically disadvantaged for losing weight, but isn't it something how some people try so hard to gain weight while others work so hard to keep from gaining? I guess if it were easy it wouldn't be worthwhile!

.

"If the scout is a true baseball guy then the scout is really 5'9". They all lie."

That's a good one!

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IMHO the difference between 6'4" 193 and 6'5" 200 for a HS sophomore is nothing...

My son can weigh 205 or 215 depending upon the amount of fiber he's consumed in the last day or two if you know what I mean...

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:
IMHO the difference between 6'4" 193 and 6'5" 200 for a HS sophomore is nothing...

My son can weigh 205 or 215 depending upon the amount of fiber he's consumed in the last day or two if you know what I mean...

Too Funny!! recently asked son how much he weighed - "...200 to 205, depending..."

If you are good enough, you are big enough.

I don't care what sport it is... and this is the most true in baseball. Just put what the kid is on the card and then don't give it another thought...
telling the truth means you don't have to have a very good memory.

quote:

If you are good enough, you are big enough.

trojan-skipper,

That is true.

One inch and nobody really cares.

Four inches and everyone is talking about it.

Somethings are very obvious.

I really can't think of any reason to enhance weight. We have seen kids who look like 300 lbers list their weight at 235.

Body type is probably more important. If a kid is 6-3/170 (depending on body type) he could actually be more attractive to scouts than if he were 6-3/210.

They measure basketball players in shoes. They usually measure baseball players (in the rare instances where they actually measure) in bare feet.

I'm with the round up to the nearest inch and no more group but 6'4" doesn't really need any embellishment.

quote:

Originally posted by Proud Dad 24:
2014 is a 2 way player whose "actual" current ht and wt is 6'4" 193 lbs. Coaches are suggesting that son state size at 6'5" 200 lbs. I hope son will continue to grow in ht and wt but I am suggesting he be completely honest.

Does he listen to coach or Dad? Coaches have seen enough kids to know legitimate size versus embellished.

Thoughts?

Reminds me of my little brother's first REAL football game. My Dad and i went to his first game to support and cheer for him, and the first thing Dad did was sit in the stands and open the program. I still remember my Dad's chuckle and smirk as he read the program. "what is it", he leans over and shows me my little brothers height and weight... it was a solid 30 pounds and 2-3 inches on the high side. I looked at pops and said, WOW!, why on earth would they do that? He theory was it was to intimidate the opposing team... Coach's don't want to advertise puny players to the opponent. Made sense at the time, and i have always taken height and weight of players with a grain of salt from then on out.

You may find this thread of interest.

http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...781/m/6397044395/p/1

The truth is sacred. A lie is a lie. When we can't trust one another to tell the truth about little things, forget about the big things. When someone lies, it calls into question every aspect of their character. As a coach I would say, “no thanks, I’ll pass”. What are we teaching the next generation about integrity?

I agree with this sentiment.

Today's height/weight "embellishment" becomes future years Financial guru peddling AAA rated Bond packages that have a few weaker ones in there too. How much harm can that cause?

Anytime anyone knowingly or willingly misrepresents facts..it's lying. Words like embellishment, stretching, rounding etc are weasel words that help justify falsehoods. Bad idea to be teaching anyone that kind of thing and especially so for 15-16 year olds IMO.

Funny part is that I suspect a lot of folks that would think this is OK would get upset if Johnny didn't run on and of the field or hustle to first on a two hopper to short out of "respect for the game" An example of misplaced or backward priorities. I'd submit that the kid that is a "fudging" is off to a worse start than the kid that jogs out a grounder.

There is no doubt, the truth is the best path in most everything. A few things to consider, though.

Go to the website of any MLB team and check the listed height of the players. Does anyone really think that each and every player is exactly the height listed. Of course not, nearly every program, website, roster, etc. is rounded off.

So if a player is 5’11.5, what do you do? If he is listed at 6’ is someone a liar? Isn’t it a lie if he is listed at 5’11”? Should coaches and scouts disregard him because he wasn’t exactly truthful?

If the player listed happens to be a young kid, and you can’t use an exact number including a fraction, would it be more accurate to round off to the lower number or the higher number? Is he more likely to grow or shrink?

I think nearly every coach in the world will gladly take the player who has outstanding talent and totally forget that he is a half inch shorter than what is reported. We have seen thousands go on to college and professional baseball, very few of them were “exactly” the height or weight we had them listed. I would guess about 90% would not be the exact number.

I have to say, if my choice is between two players of equal ability and the only problem is one is an inch shorter than what he says and the other jogs to first base… I would 100% of the time choose the one that shows the most effort. If some kid tells me he always gives 100% and when I see him he’s dogging it… that is a lie I’m most concerned with.

One more thing… I am 65 years old. I increased my life insurance twice over the past two years. This requires a physical each time. The nurse that measured me two years ago measured me at 6’3”. The nurse this year measured me at 6’4”. Pretty sure I didn’t have a growth spurt at this age. No one is more into accuracy than insurance companies. That one inch difference didn’t concern them at all. Was there any lying involved?

My point is, why label some kid as a liar and avoid him when most kids don’t even know exactly how tall they are. Nearly always those measurements come from someone else.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
There is no doubt, the truth is the best path in most everything. A few things to consider, though.

...Nearly always those measurements come from someone else.

I find that to be true most of the time. This thread had me thinking the other day, so I did a height and weight check of my son last week... boy was he mad at me when I told him he was 5'4" because his school nurse said he was 5'5". He thought I was stealing an inch from him... lol. I just told him it is what it is and he will get that inch back in a few months. We were at a local sporting goods store this last weekend and he says... look dad, I am 5'5", See. I said, yea kid, you’re wearing shoes. You are 5'4"; the school nurse obviously measured you in shoes. Get over it.

Not all lies are created equal. Assuming that taller is better, why not present yourself in the best light and state your height in your shoes and round up? It doesn't really matter. The kid who does it isn't destined for a life on wall street creating bad credit default swaps or as a presidential candidate...

However, if you're 14 and say you're 12....that's just a lie.

193 rounds to 200...5'11"+ rounds to 6'...175 doesn't round to 210...5'7" doesn't round to 6'1"...

Like a lot of things, it's hard to define but I know it when I see it....

My sophomore daughter (5'11") recently listed herself as 5'12" for a softball college showcase. I didn't realize it until I bought the program.

I asked her, what exactly her thought process was and how she arrived at that figure.

"All the other girls were adding at least an inch when we were filling out the forms (together). I figured I should add an inch too, but no way I'm going to be 6' tall, I'll never get a boyfriend."

Her GPA is 4.3, but she's blonde.

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:
My sophomore daughter (5'11") recently listed herself as 5'12" for a softball college showcase. I didn't realize it until I bought the program.

I asked her, what exactly her thought process was and how she arrived at that figure.

"All the other girls were adding at least an inch when we were filling out the forms (together). I figured I should add an inch too, but no way I'm going to be 6' tall, I'll never get a boyfriend."

Her GPA is 4.3, but she's blonde.

That's a funny story.

Tell her not to worry about having a boyfriend because before long her awkward height in HS will be a thing of the past. Tall leggy blonds do not have trouble attracting boys, which I assume you already know and are dreading.

She's actually taken after me, so she'll fight the "full figured" issue. She's athletic, smart (despite the post) and bigger than most of her male classmates. She intimidates most of them.

A father's dream...

A lot of good balanced thoughts here. My primary concern is what I am teaching my son about honesty and proper values. He's 6'3 5/8" I like him to know the truth and watch him grapple with it when he's asked how tall he is.

When he went in to the doctor’s office this fall for his HS freshman sports physical and the nurse measured him in his shoes, she couldn't see high enough to get an accurate reading. She said, "It looks like 6'5" to me". He quickly wanted to adopt her version as the gospel truth. Of course I had to tell him, "just because she's short, cute and telling you what you want to hear doesn't mean she's right". 6'3 5/8" period.

Unfortunately the height and weight thing is a huge recruiting issue. The mid to upper D-1's don't look at very many sub 6 footers. Maybe the BBCOR will let the non giants shine a little for a change....I doubt it....

All through recruiting, I was a stickler to always make sure my son didn't exaggerate his height. He's 5-10, solidly built.

It just struck me wrong to try to stretch the truth and say he's taller than he actually is. I know it's really not that big of a deal, but I just didn't want to play that game. So we always put down his actual 5-10 height.

Then one day I was cruising around the Perfect Game site, and clicked onto one of the lists of HS seniors. My son was listed as 6'0"!

I actually PM'd PGStaff and asked if he'd correct it.

It's just a thing with me. My son is the ballplayer he is. Seems to me if you try to present yourself as something you are not on paper, you will feel the urge to do the same on the field.

Not a good way to succeed at baseball, IMO.

Hunter that is simply not true. They look for ball players. UNC last year had a 5'10 lf, 5'8 cf, , 5'10 ss, 5'9 2b all starting. A huge recruiting issue is talent. I just listed UNC but you could go through as many college rosters at the major and mid major level and see pretty much the same thing. There is one thing that will turn these coaches head. The ability to play the game at the level they are looking for.

I am not suggesting you are doing this but the fact is you can look for a million excuses and find every one of them. But if you can play and play at a high level your in great shape. College coaches are in the business of winning. Putting players on the field simply because of their size and not their ability is a sure fire way to be looking for new employment.

I have never had a college coach tell me they really thought a player was good enough to help them but he was too short or wasn't heavy enough to be recruited by them. College coaches are looking for kids who can play the game.

If you let the fear of being seen as too short to play this game consume you, you will never succeed. There is no time to worry about the things you can't control. That is both in life and baseball.

Simple answer really: my oldest in socks was 6'3 3/4". The first time I saw him list himself as 6'4", I questioned the accuracy and he replied that he always plays in cleats and with his cleats on he was 6'4". Worked for me and I don't think he'll spend too much time in purgatory over that one.

Coach May knows his stuff far more than me so I don't doubt that height may not matter as much with position players, but beyond any doubt there is a preference for taller pitchers. A 6'4" pitcher throwing 86 is seen as having room to throw harder with teaching and tweaking, but a 5'9" pitcher throwing 86 is seen as getting all that his body has to give. All other things being equal, the taller pitchers will attract more interest.

Control the things you can control and the rest will take care of itself. If you're 5'9 then be the best 5'9 pitcher you can be. Maybe that's enough and you will get a shot. Maybe somebody can help you get better and will give you a chance to improve. Maybe you're just not good enough and it's not really the fact you're short but you just don't have it. I'm with Coach May in that talent will prevail but I also agree with hokieone in that the taller players will stand out (no pun intended) better than shorter players. In either case you don't have control over any of this. So just control the things you can control.

People need to remember that you're not dealing with idiots or guys that don't know what they are doing. These are college coaches or pro scouts - they know if you're 5'9 or 6'1. You don't know if the "embellishment" will hurt you or not because you don't know the coach. It probably won't IF you can play but why take the chance?

In the overall process of determining if someone is good enough for a spot on a team the height and weight are very low on the list of things that are important. Probably 1A and 1B would be talent and grades and those are both things you can control. You can make yourself the best player you can be and you can get good grades. Once you do those two things then the rest is out of your hands.

Relax and enjoy the game.