helmets for pitchers??

The number of such incidences are so minimal ---leave things as they are

i know the incident's are rare but.. base coaches now wear them and they are further away.. batters wear them, and the ball comes off the bat just as fast more often than not.. i think its time, or at least an option for those who pitch.. i consider myself a hardcore fan of the game too, and it wouldnt bother me a bit..

The problem is todays generation---coaches do not need helmets---in fact the helmets they wear would not have prevented that coaches death a few years back---

TwoTimes-

I did an article about pitcher safety and juiced bats here: http://www.extremepitching.com...x.php?pr=Juiced_Bats

The biggest safety concern I have in baseball is commotio cordis. This is a fatal blunt force strike to the chest.

Brian

Pitchers are permitted to wear helmets and face guards now under NFHS rules....The helmet just has to have a non glare surface...

To date I have never seen one in actual HS or college play....

Base coaches in HS are not required to wear the helmet under NFHS rules as of yet, However, I expect it to be made mandatory next year since NCAA and MLB have done so already....

quote:

The biggest safety concern I have in baseball is commotio cordis. This is a fatal blunt force strike to the chest.

Just a quick correction... Commotio Cordis is potentially fatal. There was an incident a week or two ago out in Virginia where two players collided and one suffered Commotio Cordis. CPR and use of AED by the coach and the athletic trainer saved his life.

It would be one of the worst things to ever happen to pitchers because it would open up the door for more over reaction to injuries. Don't get me wrong I feel for the Giants pitcher and hope he makes a full recovery and goes on to a great career but it happens. Accidents and potential for injury are a part of everyday life and you cannot avoid them. Walking down the street is dangerous but we really can't do anything about it.

As someone mentioned above the number of pitches thrown by the number of pitchers out there and the number of balls that hit the pitcher are extremely rare. We need to teach pitchers to make sure that they end up in a fielding position after delivery to help minimize the chance for an injury.

There will never be any surefire way to eliminate the possibility of injury.

thank you bretzke for that link .. i do recall a couple of those sad stories too. heart breaking, ... those should be a reminder to us all that safety should be the #1 concern.. the game can still be one of the best past times for all but protection is needed.. it could save a life, or prevent a life altering injury!

thank you too, piaa-ump for the rule info.. i think i'll try to set a new trend in our local youth league by having my little guy wear a helmet and even a heart guard.. i love baseball immensely but i love my boys more ..

quote:

We need to teach pitchers to make sure that they end up in a fielding position after delivery to help minimize the chance for an injury.

Coach, I agree with this as a general principle, however I hope you weren't implying that this pitcher did anything wrong? Or used poor mechanics?

Here is the video:

Giants pitcher hit in head

I don't see anything terribly wrong with where he ended up...very similar to many, many pitchers...many MLB pitchers!

There's been some science done on this (reaction time, etc...) mostly with the Red Sox pitcher (Bryce Florie) that showed he essentially had no chance for his brain to fire quick enough to move any body part to stop it. In Florie's case, they calculated that the ball was over halfway to his head from home plate before his brain could even recognize the situation and begin to fire a warning to his body to do something. This video looks like the same thing to me.

twotimeslucky - I am not an advocate of face guards or helmets for pitchers. My son was seriously injured in a similar accident to this one on Cape Cod in 2006. If you're looking for a more practical protection...he now wears shatter-proof Oakley clear wrap-around glasses when he pitches. The doctors have told me that if he had worn them on that day, the damage would have been far less.

JBB I wasn't trying to imply that the Giants pitcher was in a bad position at all. I was just making a comment that everyone included in baseball need to make sure we are teaching all pitchers the correct fielding position after delivery. The Giants pitcher and Florie just prove that there is still a danger in baseball as with all sports.

OK, thanks for the clarification. We're on the same page.

Pitchers wearing helmets.........this topic is hilarious!

Wellswood,
If you look at the video of what happened to Giants pitcher Joe Martinez last night, perhaps you would not have posted or not have posted in a way that seemingly trivializes this issue.
Pitcher safety is an extremely important issue, even if being hit by a line drive occurs "minimally."

My son was hit nearly everywhere but his head. I don't miss that part of the game at all.

I have seen the video 4 or 5 times. This has happened before and it will eventually happen again. The pitcher knows the risk when he chooses the position he wants to play. What's next, face masks for batters in MLB? How about putting a buffer cushion on the outfield wall like Nascar does on their walls? How about third baseman wearing chest protectors on the hot corner? Baseball has been played a very long time, don't change nothing that ain't broke. Just because a pitcher gets hit in the head doesn't mean we have to "overreact". It happens. The guy will be alright, MOVE ON. Don't make MLB become a soft sport like the NFL did to their sport. It's funny that this topic is even being discussed. Pitchers wearing helmets in
MLB.........sheesh.

Two pitchers on my son's D2 team have been hit in the head this year - one my son and the other his roommate. His roommate was hit in the jaw- broke it in 3 places. He is doing okay - survived having his jaw wired shut for 3 weeks and is hoping everything heals correctly.

My son was okay - big lump on the head - but it was the same week as Natasha Richardson died. Scarey stuff.

Would pitchers have to wear goalie helmets to fully protect them? Or is the answer what has been debated forever - wooden bats for collegiate leagues?

I feel this is definitely something that has to be left up to the individual. I'm not saying I would be a fan of someone making that choice to wear one, but I think if a pitcher (at any level) decided to wear one, then that's something he (or she if we want to include softball) has to learn to deal with.

I am, however, not a fan of making it mandatory. Personally I don't think the base coaches should have to wear a helmet either. Again, if they choose to: great. But it shouldn't be required.

Unfortunately a pitcher wearing a helmet is not going to solve everything. Anyone remember the Padres pitcher who got hit last year? He got hit in the nose and I personally believe he is lucky he wasn't killed in the process. Hit him in the nose, but Albert Pujols had to lunge to hit the ball. Just think if Albert had hit that ball fully!

quote:

Originally posted by wellswood:
I have seen the video 4 or 5 times. This has happened before and it will eventually happen again. The pitcher knows the risk when he chooses the position he wants to play. What's next, face masks for batters in MLB? How about putting a buffer cushion on the outfield wall like Nascar does on their walls? How about third baseman wearing chest protectors on the hot corner? Baseball has been played a very long time, don't change nothing that ain't broke. Just because a pitcher gets hit in the head doesn't mean we have to "overreact". It happens. The guy will be alright, MOVE ON. Don't make MLB become a soft sport like the NFL did to their sport. It's funny that this topic is even being discussed. Pitchers wearing helmets in
MLB.........sheesh.

The NFL is only now grudgingly accepting the brain damage being caused to the players..its employees.
Brain injury risk is significant. Brain injury and brain damage is never "funny" to be a topic for discussion.
Thanks for assuring everyone Joe Martinez will be fine. However, since you are seemingly in Fla and he is in a hospital in San Francisco being monitored for the effects, it seems likely your comments are just as reliable as your comments on the NFL finally acknowledging the brain damage issue with their sport.

What is the NFL known as, of course it's the "No Fun League", and it's not known for that just because of end zone celebrations.
As far as Joe being alright, if your able to walk off the field under your own power, it's "most likely" he'll be alright. An I don't consider getting hit in the head as being "funny", the funny part is ya'll talking about a MLB pitcher wearing a helmet. Just like what someone said earlier, they should make it a choice for the pitcher, even if that would happen, I would bet money that their would be no pitcher that would do it.
Now I gotta get ready to go watch the #1 ranked team in the nation, Jesuit, play right down the street from me, in Florida, not California. Then go watch the #2 ranked team in the nation, Lakeland, tomorrow in Florida, not California.

Wonder what the discussion was like before batters had to wear helmets. It's funny seeing old footage with men in the box with just a cap on.

/just saying

quote:

Wellswood posted: As far as Joe being alright, if your able to walk off the field under your own power, it's "most likely" he'll be alright.

quote:

NYT Article: An autopsy report released today reveals that Natasha Richardson died of a head injury after her fall on March 16 at a ski resort in Canada, the AP reports. The incident was ruled an accident. The 45-year-old film and stage star reportedly complained of a headache shortly after she left a ski lesson at the Mont Tremblant resort, where officials said this week that she "did not show any visible signs of injury."

Dr. Wellswood....Paging Dr. Welswood, Liam Neesons wife Natashia Richardson walked off the bunny slope she bumped her head on and was dead the next day. Walking off the field has no relevence to the severity of the injury. ER docs refer to this as "the walking dead".

It's probably a good thing the NFL does not still use the helments that fold up and fit in your back pocket.

Wellsworth,

The #1 rating is subjective. Last year when a couple teams from Florida showed up at the Anderson Bat Invitational, they were shown that California rules the roost. A California Div 3 high school won against several top ranked teams from across the nation. Jupiter, FL and Seminole Ridge, FL missed going to the championship which ended up an ALL California affair.

Dad04,
That is exactly what I was thinking about when doctor Wellswood made his misinformed statement.

I doubt if many pitchers would "want" to wear a helmet.

It would be my guess that those who don't quite see this very real danger are not parents of pitchers. This truly is one of those things that gets more dangerous at every level.

When my son pitched, it wasn't giving up a home run that troubled me the most. The line drive back through the middle was always the #1 fear for me. It doesn't make any difference if it doesn't happen very often. The number of near misses are scary enough.

Most drunk drivers never kill anyone. Most trailer homes don't get hit by a tornado. Most people don't get into airplane crashes. So is there any reason to make airplanes even safer?

If there were a way to protect the most vulnerable player on a baseball field from being seriously hurt or getting killed... Without it being uncomfortable or limit his ability... Wouldn't it be a no brainer to do it? How would that change baseball? Guess it would keep us fans from seeing a pitcher get his brains scrambled. Personally I don't watch baseball for that reason. Does anybody?

If we can figure out how to do all those things that used to be impossible. Seems like we should come up with something that helps protect baseball players. At least from those things that could end up being fatal.

This is not about being a tough guy! I wish all the tough guys would stand out there 50 to 60 feet away from Pujols, throw him some pitches with out an L screen and let him hit line drives up the middle. Chances are he won't kill you! Then again maybe he will!

Got a little chip on the shoulder there wellswood?

I guess it doesn't look that dangerous from the hot dog stand next Dr. Wellswood.....

My kid got hit in the shin in college. It looked like a baseball had been inserted under his skin and he had two knees on the same leg. I am surprised there aren't more serious injuries.

quote:

This is not about being a tough guy! I wish all the tough guys would stand out there 50 to 60 feet away from Pujols, throw him some pitches with out an L screen and let him hit line drives up the middle. Chances are he won't kill you! Then again maybe he will!

Yeah, no way in H### I'd be doing that

Heck, I wouldn't pitch to Pujols from 100 feet away with an L screen!

If something can be developed that will protect a player, I'm in favor of it being allowed and worn IF that player wants it. I am against requiring it though..

WELLSWOOD:

Have you ever played shortstop when a Major League hitter hits?

Many years ago, Tom Haller, GM Giants provided me an opportunity to pitch BP before the SF Giants game. Of course I threw behind a screen.

After throwing BP, I decided [foolishly] to take grounders at shortstop when Jack Clark hit.

My reflexes were at a high level because of Grade A level tournament handball. When Clark hit the 1st ground ball to deep short, I could not drop my hands low, the ball was past me.

Believe me there is a difference with ML hitters. The "sound" of the ball hitting the bat is different.

My last years in the Basin League, I batted off Bob Gibson and believe me I listened for the sound.

Bob

quote:

As far as Joe being alright, if your able to walk off the field under your own power, it's "most likely" he'll be alright.

Well, other than being placed on the DL, suffering a concussion and 3 fractures in his skull, he should be alright.
Just another "softy."

D amn, I see people getting a little hot just because my opinion isn't the same as ya'lls. Relax people, you'll be alright.
An I quote, "The rookie reliever was stable and alert in a San Francisco hospital Friday, and the Giants said the right-hander WAS EXPECTED TO MAKE A FULL RECOVERY", end of quote. Well I rest my case on that subject, on to the next. You know, we do get reports down here dad. I told you he would be alright. Just call me Doogie.
High School Baseball Rankings:
USA Today (April 8)= 1) Jesuit High School
2) Lakeland High School
ESPN RISE Fab 50= 1) Jesuit High School
2) Lakeland High School
Maxpreps (April 7)= 1) Jesuit High School

Now what were ya'll saying about polls could be "subjective"? I could believe that if it was only one poll, but three, I don't think that is "subjective".
Look, all I did was give my opinion on a subject and thought that it was silly to think that MLB pitchers should wear a helmet. I didn't mean for the dad to get his panties in a wad by what I said. If you didn't like my first opinion, it's pretty simple, IGNORE IT. An to the guy trying to make fun of my screen name by calling me "wellsworth", yeah, you seem like a bright individual. Where did you learn to do that, back in elementary school.
Hey Bob, no, but I have played the hot corner in D-1 though, WITH metal bats. Use to get hit all the time. Does that help you out.

I can live with it being a choice by each individual player. Honestly though we won't have a clue as to how a hockey style mask would work on a pitcher until we do it. We need to have a kid do a bullpen session first to see how it may or may not affect his mechanics. Then do it in a controlled scrimmage or intersquad game. After that then we can proceed as to whether it's the way to go or not.

quote:

Originally posted by wellswood:
D amn, I see people getting a little hot just because my opinion isn't the same as ya'lls. Relax people, you'll be alright.
An I quote, "The rookie reliever was stable and alert in a San Francisco hospital Friday, and the Giants said the right-hander WAS EXPECTED TO MAKE A FULL RECOVERY", end of quote. Well I rest my case on that subject, on to the next. You know, we do get reports down here dad. I told you he would be alright. Just call me Doogie.
High School Baseball Rankings:
USA Today (April 8)= 1) Jesuit High School
2) Lakeland High School
ESPN RISE Fab 50= 1) Jesuit High School
2) Lakeland High School
Maxpreps (April 7)= 1) Jesuit High School

Now what were ya'll saying about polls could be "subjective"? I could believe that if it was only one poll, but three, I don't think that is "subjective".
Look, all I did was give my opinion on a subject and thought that it was silly to think that MLB pitchers should wear a helmet. I didn't mean for the dad to get his panties in a wad by what I said. If you didn't like my first opinion, it's pretty simple, IGNORE IT. An to the guy trying to make fun of my screen name by calling me "wellsworth", yeah, you seem like a bright individual. Where did you learn to do that, back in elementary school.
Hey Bob, no, but I have played the hot corner in D-1 though, WITH metal bats. Use to get hit all the time. Does that help you out.

ISN'T THERE A HSBASEBALLWEB RULE ON HIJACKING THREADS?

I guess the point I was trying to make was simply... Why allow tradition alone to keep us from making the game better and safer?

Unless it would be made mandatory I doubt if many pitchers would wear something to protect themselves. It will never be made mandatory until something can be used that would be comfortable and allow 100% performance.

So wearing a helmet might not be the answer. But as "justbaseball" mentioned about his son wearing wrap arounds... Maybe someone could come up with something that is light weight, confortable, and still protects the most vulnerable parts of the face and head from a potential fatal impact.

Everything can be improved. "55mom" brought up a good point. I wonder how mant serious injuries and deaths have been avoided due to the usage and improvements in the batting helmet? I've seen a few instances, as I'm sure others here have, where we might have seen some very ugly results had a hitter not been wearing a batting helmet with the ear flap. I'm betting back in the day when those helmets and ear flaps first came out... There were some old timers out there complaining about them. Using them has not changed the game one iota... other than it made it safer.

No matter what someone might come up with, pitchers will never be totally safe. Umpires, catchers, hitters are on the receiving end of high velocity thrown balls. They are somewhat protected against major potentially fatal injury and they are in a "ready" position where they know exactly when the ball is released towards them. The pitcher is not in as good of a position when a ball is hit solidly at even "greater" velocities and he is usually just getting out of his follow thru at a closer distance to where the ball is coming from. He also has to read it on the rebound off the bat rather than see and time everything like a thrown ball.

Catchers and plate umpires know more than anyone how difficult and how dangerous this can be. There is no reacting to those foul tips. Luckily they are somewhat protected. Those foul tips don't reach the velocity of a squarely hit ball. Every catcher has seen balls come off the bat and cringe when they know its hit hard at the pitcher. Even then those catchers know there was no time for that pitcher to react. The gasp from everyone watching always comes after the ball has either gone past the pitcher or in some cases as it hits him. No one can react fast enough, even mentally in some cases. At that point it is strictly luck or in some cases severely bad luck. At that point it’s all about fate! Might as well be trying to duck a bullet!

There are many who know exactly what I’m talking about. It can and has happened with wood, and the velocity increases with metal. I think it really is a very serious subject and well worth discussing.

Hey RJM, when someone insinuates that you haven't even seen the video and is making a post that you know nothing about, I'm gonna respond. Maybe you won't do it when it happens to you, but I will. I thought everybody on this website is entitled to their opinion on topics. Do you want me to e-mail you first in the future and ask if I can comment on a subject? You'll be alright buddy, I'm not mad at ya. I see you put your two cents in by saying, and I quote, "Isn't there a HSBaseballWeb rule about hijacking threads", end of quote. Now I know where you stand on this subject. You have a good night.

......Making friends and influencing people. Coach Dr. Wellswood everybody. Let's give him a hand.

PG, I couldn't have said it better myself. I just want to weigh in with the fact that I personally know two pitchers it happened to, and, luckily they are both still with us. My son's DII teammate had his face shattered, though. If one kid or young man has his life saved by a helmet, isn't it all worth it?

My son suffered this same injury last season to the eye took 12 stitches and about a week to get over the dizzyness. The ball estimated speed after initial gun picked it up hit him going near to 100 mph. Told him not to flinch and keep his eyes open next time.

They use to have helmut liners that were madee of fiber-epoxy which actually help shape the cap. Then the leagues wanted full helmuts and the liners disappeared. Maybe the liners should be worn by pitchers.

JMO

wellswood - there is no problem with you having an opposing opinion. Getting in people's faces and being rude is a problem quite frankly. Also, Florida high school rankings have nothing to do with this thread. If you are just here to stir the pot, perhaps don't visit here anymore.

Clevlanddad, no disrespect but infielddad started it by saying that "if you look at the video of what happened", first, what makes him think that I didn't see the video? I don't remember saying anything about me not seeing the video. I just said that it was hilarious that their was a topic about pitchers wearing helmets. That's it. That's all I said. He could have moved on past my comment. He could have ignored it. Other posters on this thread have. Why couldn't he do it. I didn't ask for a response from him.
An as far as bringing up the rankings, once again, infielddad basically says that me being in Florida my comments are unreliable. I just had to let him know that here in Florida, wait, here in the Tampa area we have the top two teams in the nation according to USA Today and ESPN. We know a little bit about baseball over here in Florida too.