TPM --- Great Post!
College coach/recruiter who was giving my son lessons who moved onto Notre Dame to be an assistant coach, said about my son that he had a good swing good catcher mechanics and one day his talent will grow into his body(he was 12 than). One day, if he still wants baseball he can go as far as he wants.
It up to your son to take what he has been blessed with and if it is baseball he wants all you can do is be there to support him. (Be his equipment manager, trainer, chauffer and teacher of life.)
Respectfully yours,
drill
It up to your son to take what he has been blessed with and if it is baseball he wants all you can do is be there to support him. (Be his equipment manager, trainer, chauffer and teacher of life.)
Respectfully yours,
drill
The real question is are all kids at a young age that are told they are speacil are they speacial ?
It is very important as has been mentioned to judge the source. Many instructors are trying to keep there camps full. I have seen many instances of good instructors massaging their students to keep them motivated to keep coming back. This is a fact of life we all face. This doesn't mean the instructor is bad he is just doing what is required to make a living. Even pro scouts say encouraging things to young players because they know it is an on going development. They also know the player/parents hang on every word they say. I can't remember an instructor/scout dumping on a young kid and telling them they don't have what it takes. A little skepticism is a good thing as long as it doesn't interfer with the players fun and development. Pre HS age to me means very little as the player has not matured enough to really get a good read. Yes there are some that at 11-12 stand out but few of them maintain their stand out status. Some do.
It is very important as has been mentioned to judge the source. Many instructors are trying to keep there camps full. I have seen many instances of good instructors massaging their students to keep them motivated to keep coming back. This is a fact of life we all face. This doesn't mean the instructor is bad he is just doing what is required to make a living. Even pro scouts say encouraging things to young players because they know it is an on going development. They also know the player/parents hang on every word they say. I can't remember an instructor/scout dumping on a young kid and telling them they don't have what it takes. A little skepticism is a good thing as long as it doesn't interfer with the players fun and development. Pre HS age to me means very little as the player has not matured enough to really get a good read. Yes there are some that at 11-12 stand out but few of them maintain their stand out status. Some do.
quote:Originally posted by Fungo:
TPM --- Great Post!
Thanks, I only speak from my own experience and from what I have seen.
Players that often stand out at 11 in baseball also stand out in other areas as well. They usually stand out because they are just really a bit more athletic than others their age. That sometimes interprets into playing multiple sports, or playing on multiple teams, just a whole lot of stuff going on for a growing body that doesn't need all of that.
I have seen more really good players not suceed due to overuse than anything else. This is where an informed parents judgement comes in. I remember so many telling us that son had a great arm, he should play football, he should play more golf, he should play on multiple bb teams just to get better, he should take lessons from so and so, etc. My player could have said yes to all of that if given the choice. As a parent of a player who showed ability to someday be a pitcher and a desire to play beyond HS, we understood that this may not be in his best interest. While every pitcher on his team were getting private lessons from the local former pro player at 12,13 we said no. While his BF's at 11,12,13 were playing multiple teams and heavy fall, winter and summer schedules we said no. We didn't buy into the hype, we most likely were considered mean and unreasonble by son and others.
That is what worked for him not saying this is the formula for success later in life, just our decision to not buy into a lot of stuff often told to us by others who would benefit from his ability at too young an age.
JMO.
quote:Thanks, I only speak from my own experience and from what I have seen.
Players that often stand out at 11 in baseball also stand out in other areas as well. They usually stand out because they are just really a bit more athletic than others their age. That sometimes interprets into playing multiple sports, or playing on multiple teams, just a whole lot of stuff going on for a growing body that doesn't need all of that.
I have seen more really good players not suceed due to overuse than anything else. This is where an informed parents judgement comes in. I remember so many telling us that son had a great arm, he should play football, he should play more golf, he should play on multiple bb teams just to get better, he should take lessons from so and so, etc. My player could have said yes to all of that if given the choice. As a parent of a player who showed ability to someday be a pitcher and a desire to play beyond HS, we understood that this may not be in his best interest. While every pitcher on his team were getting private lessons from the local former pro player at 12,13 we said no. While his BF's at 11,12,13 were playing multiple teams and heavy fall, winter and summer schedules we said no. We didn't buy into the hype, we most likely were considered mean and unreasonble by son and others.
That is what worked for him not saying this is the formula for success later in life, just our decision to not buy into a lot of stuff often told to us by others who would benefit from his ability at too young an age. JMO.
TPM another great post... What many parents confuse when their child is young is their responsibilities to help their child develop a love for the game with skill development. While many argue they are one in the same few knowledgable coaches and parents who have been there agree with this. The only adults who tend to gravitate toward this position are those neck deep in their own child's misguided development and their own misguided desires. I like you did not force my sons to follow what many parents feel is the "Necessary" path and both boys still love the game, my youngest still playing and coaching. Having coached for 25 years I can't help but shake my head at the yearly crop of parets justifying their injurious, delusional ways. Everytime a parent thinks he has the one, I tell him that according to the NCAA 1:16,000 HS players make it to the pros. If your son is the one show me the other 15,999.
Jake, while the odds of going from high school to pro ball are minute, still small are the odds of just getting from 7/8 kid pitch to start on high school varsity. Typically you will see four starters (at some point in time) from a high school class. From 7/8's to high school varsity in our area it's means 2% make it. We started with sixteen teams of 7/8's (about 200 kids).
Every year their is an 11 yo who gets noticed by parents and coaches of LL etc. teams as the next D1 player. The kids also notice who the best players are. The worst thing IMO that can happen to the player is to get caught up in the hype. Even, or should I say especially, at 11 the kids get caught up in reading their own press clippings.
My son was hitting homeruns at 9 & 10yo. When he was 11 he had parents and players congratulating him many times. His head started to swell a little.
I always told him to be humble and don't let it go to his head. Just play, have fun and we'll work together for him to continue to get better.
I believe that if a kid that age buys into the hype he can start to take his talent for granted and not work at get better each year. Believing that since he is so good he doesn't need to work.
Alot of times the worst enemy of a talented kid is the parent. An over the top parent will definitely buy into the hype and do alot of damage to the kid and his baseball future.
I sounds like RonBon is taking a good approach with his son. My advice is to take it one season at a time and make sure that his talent grows with his size by working at his game with proper coaching.
My son was hitting homeruns at 9 & 10yo. When he was 11 he had parents and players congratulating him many times. His head started to swell a little.
I always told him to be humble and don't let it go to his head. Just play, have fun and we'll work together for him to continue to get better.
I believe that if a kid that age buys into the hype he can start to take his talent for granted and not work at get better each year. Believing that since he is so good he doesn't need to work.
Alot of times the worst enemy of a talented kid is the parent. An over the top parent will definitely buy into the hype and do alot of damage to the kid and his baseball future.
I sounds like RonBon is taking a good approach with his son. My advice is to take it one season at a time and make sure that his talent grows with his size by working at his game with proper coaching.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
Jake, while the odds of going from high school to pro ball are minute, still small are the odds of just getting from 7/8 kid pitch to start on high school varsity. Typically you will see four starters (at some point in time) from a high school class. From 7/8's to high school varsity in our area it's means 2% make it. We started with sixteen teams of 7/8's (about 200 kids).
has anybody ever coached a kid that made it to the bigs? has anybody ever known a kid from his town that ever made it?
A friend from my LL played in the World Series. He was a big slug in LL. By high school he was just big (6'4", 220). By college he was throwing in the 90's. He liked to tease me with, "Which is more exciting? Being on the mound for the LL states clincher (me) or the ALCS clincher (him)?"
One of my LL teammates became a MLB GM. A player from the next town and college summer ball teammate played about ten years in the majors and became a MLB GM.
One of my LL teammates became a MLB GM. A player from the next town and college summer ball teammate played about ten years in the majors and became a MLB GM.
I think this thread should be published as a "Parenting for Baseball Dummies" and I mean that in a complimentary way.
Too many parents get bilked for thousands of dollars paying for lessons from a good salesman that knows how to get repeat business. Most of the instructors actually set the next lesson before the current one begins. The instructors tell the parents that the kid really has some great potential or get them emotional by saying "the ball really explodes out of his hand" or "Your kid has some major pop in his bat"
Its just very sad in my opinion. Parents, more than anyone want there child to be special and many instructors prey on this sentiment.
As for projecting talent at an early age, my opinion is that puberty is the great equalizer. Good ballplayers at 10 might be 5'8 145 as a senior and that stature won't turn many heads even if the kid can play. Its just really hard to see any gradable skills until they get to be in high school and have a couple years of the growth spurt behind them. Some kids that mature late might only have 1, maybe two years to turn heads where the early bloomer has had a headstart filling out.
Too many parents get bilked for thousands of dollars paying for lessons from a good salesman that knows how to get repeat business. Most of the instructors actually set the next lesson before the current one begins. The instructors tell the parents that the kid really has some great potential or get them emotional by saying "the ball really explodes out of his hand" or "Your kid has some major pop in his bat"
Its just very sad in my opinion. Parents, more than anyone want there child to be special and many instructors prey on this sentiment.
As for projecting talent at an early age, my opinion is that puberty is the great equalizer. Good ballplayers at 10 might be 5'8 145 as a senior and that stature won't turn many heads even if the kid can play. Its just really hard to see any gradable skills until they get to be in high school and have a couple years of the growth spurt behind them. Some kids that mature late might only have 1, maybe two years to turn heads where the early bloomer has had a headstart filling out.
wogdoggy- Yes, over a dozen with a bunch more on the way that have a good chance. Guys that make it are wired differently than the talented ones that don't.
quote:Originally posted by ncball: Guys that make it are wired differently than the talented ones that don't.
If it's not too much trouble, could ya pm me that wiring diagram?
My experience is that it is sometimes possible to see a kid with special talent early, but more often than not, you don't necessarily see it then. By no means am I an expert, but in my own involvement in youth baseball, very often the kids who are tagged as having great potential at 11 or 12 are not the ones leading the way at 17 or 18. Sometimes they get passed up by the late bloomers. Case in point - at our high school team this year, the two guys who are headed to D-1 schools to play baseball were not even on the radar when they were 11. I have only seen one kid I remember being a man among boys at age 12, and he did turn out to be a big league player. I guess anything is possible.
6 of the very best I saw from 12-15 can't miss kids never played much after high school. I was sure and so was everyone else that these kids were going places. They had size, 4 were lefty's and they were dominate thru their freshman yr on varsity squads. They were men among boys even as freshmen. I still haven't figured what happened, these kids were seemingly the Lebrons of baseball. Lebron is still playing and still dominating, gotta be the wiring.
Being a coach of a bunch of young fellas, I make the assumption that they are all going to be studs later on. The trickle down effect from perhaps an instructor, the coach and mostly parents is that if a kid is pretty good at a young age he hears it enough and becomes satisfied with being the best on his team. There are exceptions of course, but I do have a couple little guys right now that do everything better than the others on my team. I just keep telling them to be the best they can be and not to worry about if they are better than anyone. I spend the same amount with everykid too because I don't want to give up on a kid at 9 when we have all seen these kids grow into great ballplayers.
This is my second year coaching this group of little guys and every kid came back again this year. Far and away the most gratification I have taken from this deal is seeing kids that couldn't do anything slowly turn into decent little ballplayers that enjoy being out there.
This is my second year coaching this group of little guys and every kid came back again this year. Far and away the most gratification I have taken from this deal is seeing kids that couldn't do anything slowly turn into decent little ballplayers that enjoy being out there.
quote:Originally posted by Metropop:
As for projecting talent at an early age, my opinion is that puberty is the great equalizer. Good ballplayers at 10 might be 5'8 145 as a senior and that stature won't turn many heads even if the kid can play. Its just really hard to see any gradable skills until they get to be in high school and have a couple years of the growth spurt behind them.
Lots of people who post here are of that opinion. But a few months ago, Orlando posted a picture of Chet Lemon's Juice II 12U team from 1997. It included 14 players, and 5 of them played or are playing minor league ball. It is quite hard for me (and perhaps a few others) to perceive who is going to be a good player, but 5 out of 14 playing professionally implies that some people are pretty good at figuring it out--even for players aged 12.
quote:Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:quote:Originally posted by Metropop:
As for projecting talent at an early age, my opinion is that puberty is the great equalizer. Good ballplayers at 10 might be 5'8 145 as a senior and that stature won't turn many heads even if the kid can play. Its just really hard to see any gradable skills until they get to be in high school and have a couple years of the growth spurt behind them.
Lots of people who post here are of that opinion. But a few months ago, Orlando posted a picture of Chet Lemon's Juice II 12U team from 1997. It included 14 players, and 5 of them played or are playing minor league ball. It is quite hard for me (and perhaps a few others) to perceive who is going to be a good player, but 5 out of 14 playing professionally implies that some people are pretty good at figuring it out--even for players aged 12.
Sounds like Chet knows something I don't.
If you see a young kid performing well, his dad is 6'2", his mother is 5'9" and the dad or both parents were athletes at least to the high school level, chances are the kid is going to become a decent athlete.
When a team can cherry pick rather than accept what's in a geographical zone they're more likely to develop future players. It's when you take a typical group of kids you can't tell who will be a future athlete and who won't.
There was a kid in our LL district who became legendary. The kid threw 75mph. He hit the rooftops with his homers. When I finally saw him play (yes I was checking him out for our travel team), while what he could do in LL was very impressive I didn't see a future for him. The kid was 5'9", 170. He was already bigger than his dad. His mother was very petite. His fastball was down main street. His homers were all stiff armed, muscle shots to the opposite field.
The kid was 5'9" 180 last year in 8th grade. He wasn't throwing any harder than when he was twelve. I heard in Junior Legion and CYO he was getting ripped. The funny thing is when I talked to the dad regarding the possibility of his son playing 13U travel, he wanted to know what scouts would be at the tournaments.
When a team can cherry pick rather than accept what's in a geographical zone they're more likely to develop future players. It's when you take a typical group of kids you can't tell who will be a future athlete and who won't.
There was a kid in our LL district who became legendary. The kid threw 75mph. He hit the rooftops with his homers. When I finally saw him play (yes I was checking him out for our travel team), while what he could do in LL was very impressive I didn't see a future for him. The kid was 5'9", 170. He was already bigger than his dad. His mother was very petite. His fastball was down main street. His homers were all stiff armed, muscle shots to the opposite field.
The kid was 5'9" 180 last year in 8th grade. He wasn't throwing any harder than when he was twelve. I heard in Junior Legion and CYO he was getting ripped. The funny thing is when I talked to the dad regarding the possibility of his son playing 13U travel, he wanted to know what scouts would be at the tournaments.