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Help me bust myths!

G Golfman2510,000+ posts
Originally Posted by SultanofSwat:

I believe that 2000 rpm backspin will travel farther than 1000 rpm spin.  And 1000 rpm spin will travel farther than no spin (knuckle).  Correct me if this is not right.

 

So, more distance would be = more mass + correct range of launch angle + more backspin.

Not at the expense of the barrel/ball collision.   You can spin the ball 100,000 rmp and it isn't going anywhere unless there is a propelling force.  The focus should be on the barrel/ball collision.  The spin will take care of itself. 

Last edited by Golfman25
D 2020dad
Originally Posted by Golfman25:

       
Originally Posted by SultanofSwat:

I believe that 2000 rpm backspin will travel farther than 1000 rpm spin.  And 1000 rpm spin will travel farther than no spin (knuckle).  Correct me if this is not right.

 

So, more distance would be = more mass + correct range of launch angle + more backspin.

Not at the expense of the barrel/ball collision.   You can spin the ball 100,000 rmp and it isn't going anywhere unless there is a propelling force.  The focus should be on the barrel/ball collision.  The spin will take care of itself. 


       
Both are correct.  If you undercut too much it may have a lot of rpm but is still a pop up.  I think what sultan is correctly stating is that given a trajectory going out and away from the plate more rpm will yield greater distance.  So both statements are true.
L 2017LHPscrewball5,000+ posts

First off, wanted to know if anyone has any good web sites devoted to baseball physics.  I ran across one the other day and found it fascination.  Also has some slow motion clips that are truly amazing to watch - we're talking 5000/frames per second or something like that.  There is one series of clips that shows wooden bats impacting pitches - demonstrates how bats break and how off center hits make the wooden bats literally wobble.  Search THE PHYSICS OF BASEBALL by Alan Nathan at University of Illinois.

 

As for hitting above the center line with a downward swing - the real answer probably involves lots of equtions to include coefficients and such.  I'm thinking there are two important issues here.  Are we talking a downward swing in relation to the ground or are we talking about a downward swing in relation to the plane of the ball (could still be flat or even upward angle, just less than the ball's angle).  Second issue (here is where slow motion might be useful) - can you hold the ball on the bat long enough to have the ball climb the bat.  Some earlier comments say no, but it looks like both the bat and especially the ball are deformed at contact.  Assuming you hit 0.5% above the center line with a %5 down angle (compared to incoming ball angle) does yout bat barrel literally move from above center line to below center line. 

 

Please remember to pass along any other physics sites (of good slow motion video sites) that you run across.

D 2020dad
Originally Posted by 2017LHPscrewball:

       

First off, wanted to know if anyone has any good web sites devoted to baseball physics.  I ran across one the other day and found it fascination.  Also has some slow motion clips that are truly amazing to watch - we're talking 5000/frames per second or something like that.  There is one series of clips that shows wooden bats impacting pitches - demonstrates how bats break and how off center hits make the wooden bats literally wobble.  Search THE PHYSICS OF BASEBALL by Alan Nathan at University of Illinois.

 

As for hitting above the center line with a downward swing - the real answer probably involves lots of equtions to include coefficients and such.  I'm thinking there are two important issues here.  Are we talking a downward swing in relation to the ground or are we talking about a downward swing in relation to the plane of the ball (could still be flat or even upward angle, just less than the ball's angle).  Second issue (here is where slow motion might be useful) - can you hold the ball on the bat long enough to have the ball climb the bat.  Some earlier comments say no, but it looks like both the bat and especially the ball are deformed at contact.  Assuming you hit 0.5% above the center line with a %5 down angle (compared to incoming ball angle) does yout bat barrel literally move from above center line to below center line. 

 

Please remember to pass along any other physics sites (of good slow motion video sites) that you run across.


       
Thanks for this.  I have been on Dr. Nathan's site before.  But you inspired me to go again a I used his contact info to e mail him.  He responded within the hour to let me know he is busy next coiple of days then will reply!  I can't wait and rest assured I w Ill share what he has to say!
roothog66roothog6610,000+ posts
Originally Posted by Golfman25:

May need to go to Cooperstown and explain it to this guy.

 

http://articles.philly.com/201...nic-brown-cody-asche

 

"That slate began this week under the tutelage of Schmidt. Brown is working on staying level and swinging "down and through the baseball." When he thinks about hitting home runs, his swing gets loopy, he said."

Yes, it's what he teaches, but take a look at any video you find on him. It is definitely not how he swung a bat.

D 2020dad
I don't want to copy and paste his e mail without permission.  I am waiting on a second response with another specific question.  But here is what I have from him so far...  swinging down through the ball AND hitting the top half of the ball will NOT induce backspin or make the ball go up.  However he is ok with the idea that a ball can be struck with an uppercut above center - and please read this carefully - as determined by the ball/bat path.  This however will induce topspin not backspin and would drive the ball down. This could result in a base hit if struck perfectly.  But even with this you leave yourself very little margin for error.  There are those who claim they have seen home runs hit with top spin.   I find this very hard to believe.  Perhaps if PG is lurking somewhere he may have some trackman data...  a confirmed topspin home run would indeed be impressive.
D 2020dad
Originally Posted by Golfman25:

       

May need to go to Cooperstown and explain it to this guy.

 

http://articles.philly.com/201...nic-brown-cody-asche

 

"That slate began this week under the tutelage of Schmidt. Brown is working on staying level and swinging "down and through the baseball." When he thinks about hitting home runs, his swing gets loopy, he said."


       
Golf, I think here we are back to the argument of verbal cue vs. True believers.  Had a long conversation about this with one of our junior last year.  Our 3 hitter and best player.  He likes it as a cue just to remind him not to get too low on the ball and pop up.  On a case by case basis if something mentally works for you who am I to question it?  But the problem is this gets repeated and now many, many people - maybe even schmidt - truly believe it.  That is a problem.
CoachJackECoachJackE500+ posts
Originally Posted by 2020dad:
Currently I am embroiled in a 'hit the top half' debate.  I have looked and looked online.  Did find one study by a couple professors showing there is not enough friction during ball bat collision to manipulate backspin.  That backspin is purely a factor of rpm and spin direction of incoming pitch and where the ball is struck by the bat.  The idea of swinging down and striking the ball just above center to create more backspin and hard line drives does not seem possible to me.  I have NEVER seen video evidence.  Please send links to studies or videos to prove or disprove!  Feel free also to include your own favorite 'myth' with supporting evidence!

My favorite. When coaches tell young players to "watch the bat hit the ball'.

Even Ted Williams could not do that.

http://www.tedwilliams.com/ind...e=phtips&level=1

 

Cameras can determine where the best place is to hit the ball to produce a line drive, fly ball or grounder; but you don't need cameras to confirm the obvious. The hardest thing in baseball is to hit the damn ball in the first place and the most successful players do that by mirroring the path of the incoming projectile (5-10 degrees downhill). Again, per Ted, stay on the same swing path plane longer by swinging 5-10 degrees up hill. Stop worrying about hitting above or below the equator because no one is that good!!

lefthookdadlefthookdad5,000+ posts
Originally Posted by CoachJackE:
Originally Posted by 2020dad:
Currently I am embroiled in a 'hit the top half' debate.  I have looked and looked online.  Did find one study by a couple professors showing there is not enough friction during ball bat collision to manipulate backspin.  That backspin is purely a factor of rpm and spin direction of incoming pitch and where the ball is struck by the bat.  The idea of swinging down and striking the ball just above center to create more backspin and hard line drives does not seem possible to me.  I have NEVER seen video evidence.  Please send links to studies or videos to prove or disprove!  Feel free also to include your own favorite 'myth' with supporting evidence!

My favorite. When coaches tell young players to "watch the bat hit the ball'.

Even Ted Williams could not do that.

http://www.tedwilliams.com/ind...e=phtips&level=1

 

Cameras can determine where the best place is to hit the ball to produce a line drive, fly ball or grounder; but you don't need cameras to confirm the obvious. The hardest thing in baseball is to hit the damn ball in the first place and the most successful players do that by mirroring the path of the incoming projectile (5-10 degrees downhill). Again, per Ted, stay on the same swing path plane longer by swinging 5-10 degrees up hill. Stop worrying about hitting above or below the equator because no one is that good!!

I think you misunderstand the concept of telling a kid to "watch the bat hit the ball"

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