Help with a question please

Here is my guess Coach. I would think the sit out year counts as a red shirt year (assuming you have one left). Michigan's quarterback this past year saw much action as a true freshman because Hennie was injured. He just transferred to Arkansas and will sit out a year. They said in the article I read that he still will have three years remaining in eligibility. I am pretty sure the transfer rules are the same between all sports now.

This pertains to the 5/4 rule, where once enrolled a student has a 5 year window to complete his/her 4 years of athletic eligibilty. The exceptions would be only for medical reasons or other hardship, which must be granted via a petition to the NCAA. Transfers would not be an exception.

I was under the impression that if you transfer after your lets say freshman year, going into your soph year, you would lose your soph year and then would be a junior when you are eligible again. I could be wrong. I thought you could only redshirt your freshman year unless it was medical.

You can redshirt any of the 5 years. I neglected to mention that the NCAA also makes an exception for religious missions, which is why you sometimes see 24-25 yo athletes, usually Mormon.

I guess then If I were a freshman at college A. and played a game or two and decided to transfer, I could go to college B., redshirt, practice with the team and still have my three years of eligibility remaining. In that scenario, the transfer rule about sitting out a year doesn't seem as bad.

You don't need to declare a redshirt at that point. The point is moot because you have to sit out a year because of the transfer. You would still be allowed to practice, but not travel, with the team.

So sitting out a year does not mean losing a year of eligibility, correct? You would still be a sophmore athletically after sitting the year out?

What if you transfer to a JUCO for the fall, then transfer to a D1 for the spring. Can you play without sitting out?

Your status as a student academically is not impacted for designation toward year of academic completed studies.

The 5/4 rule only applies to athletic eligibiity. Upon first enrollment date completion of the 5 years to play 4 years of athletics is all you get...period.

Transfers without prior activity act as your single redshirt allowable year. Remember you have 5 years to play 4 and those years are consecutive...and no more, other than aformentioned exemption by sizzlepop.

I think I can help.

A sophomore transfers from a D1 to a D1 after he completes his sophomore year. He will redshirt one year and then play the next year as a redshirt junior. But he could academically be a senior. His last year of eligibility he may be taking graduate courses. But he WILL have two years of eligibility left

Here is where you can lose a year of eligibility. A sophomore who was redshirted - be it medical or regular - transfers from a D1 to a D1 after his sophomore. They will redshirt one year and that year will be lost athletically because of the 5/4 rule. So as a senior they only have one year left to play.

Let's say a D1 player goes to a juco and then (one semester later) transfers to a D1 from the juco. They will have to sit out the Spring semester at the new school as a year has not elapsed from when they left the original D1. In addition, they would have to have an AA degree from the juco or they could not play at the D1 even a year later.

Before I posted this I had an NCAA Compliance Officer take a look to make sure it read right. I hope this helps.

Thanks Florida Guy,

But I think what CPLZ is saying is that you can take "redshirt" out of the equation and still not lose a year of eligibility on a D1 to D1 transfer. You leave school A after your freshman year (spring 2008), sit out spring 2009, and resume as a sophmore and eligible to play spring 2010.

thats a balk!,

I think what I said goes along with what CPLZ said. The difference is if there was a redshirt year used already and the player is trying to play four years in six years it does not work.

Since this is actually how the new transfer rule will work, I don't think it's as big a issue as some have made it out to be. Just like a redshirt, you practice with the team, gain experience, and still retain the year of eligibility. I actually think in many cases it could be beneficial. Now having said that, I guess if you had already been redshirted a year, then you would lose a year by the transfer.

how could anybody afford 5 years of college?

Switchitter,

I am in my 5th year right now...and the answer is loans! man, those will come back to bite me!

Let me see if I can get this straight in my son's situation.

He is a soph at a D1 and did not redshirt as a freshman.

He is considering going to a JC this spring to play baseball with the hopes to return to a 4 year school next year.

If he returns to a D1 next fall, will he have to sit out a year (he will not have played at a D1 in over a year)? Will he have to have a AA degree?

Thanks

Dooer,
A current sophomore can transfer mid-year to a JC, play baseball this spring, and enter a D1 next fall, and play baseball spring 2010 if:

He gets a 2.0 GPA and 12 hours of transferable credit for the spring semester at the JC, and graduates from the JC(14.5.6). (Article numbers refer to the NCAA D1 Manual.

A calendar year has to elapse from the date he left the original D1 until he is eligible to compete at the new D1(14.5.6.3), so if the new D1 has games scheduled in the fall, he can't play in those games. You generally only see fall games at cold weather schools. He will be able to practice in the fall.

If he doesn't graduate or have adequate academic progress, then he will have to be in residence at the new school for 1 year before he would be eligible to compete. The residence clock starts when he begins at the new school, and is not related to the time he spent away from D1 baseball.

So in principle this is doable, but it may be tricky to manage to graduate from the JC, while only attending classes there for 1 semester. You'd want to look into whether his existing credits transfer to the JC, and if the JC has any residence requirement to graduate.

Don't forget that he needs to meet the NJCAA entrance requirements--basically have completed 12 hours this fall semester (or 36 hours total) with a 2.0 GPA at his present school (10.C and 4.E). There are also other ways to qualify for NJCAA competition, but realistically if he has the courses to graduate from the JC this spring, he'll be athletically eligible. NJCAA Eligibility Pamphlet

Edited 12/07/08 to add that since Dooer son is considering a California JC, he is subject to the California Community College Athletic Association rules rather than the NJCAA rules. The effect is nearly the same--a player transferring from a 4 year school needs a cumulative 2.0GPA, and for a player who has already competed for a season, 24 hours of course work since the beginning of the first season.

CollegeParent provided the link below, but here it is: CCCOA Eligibility Bylaw

Thanks 3 fingered.

It was as I suspected. He satisfies all the requirements, except graduation from the JC. I assume that is a AA degree which would require at least 60 units.

I don't think that he could do that. He'll probably have around 40 units + baseball units, at the conclusion of this semester. Unless he kicks butt in summer school and all his completed classes are transferable to the JC.

I guess that would mean he would sit out a year and hopefully that would count as his redshirt year.

Doer,

If he took fifteen this spring and 6 in summer school that would be 60.the thing thats confusing at least here in ca. The 60 units to graduate from a JC are not always the same units you need to transfer to a 4 year. Its hard to explain, is your son a qualifier out of HS, that makes a difference also. The bummer is once you go to that 4 year you have to graduate from the JC. My son went straight to JC, was a qualifier and only needs 48 units to leave and doesnt have to graduate. He could actually be qualified with 24 at the end of this year. Once you step foot on that 4 year campus and take a class it changes everything.But check it out its doable, 15 units at a JC isnt that hard.My son did 14 this semester plus PE with baseball and he is fine. Good luck with whatever your son decides to do.

Yes, my son was a qualifer out of HS and has been at the D1 for 1 1/2 years. He was a recruited walk-on.

I beleive that he took 15 units this semester and is doing fine, even with the demands of baseball. As a freshman, he took 12 or 13 units each semester, plus the units for baseball.

He has some close friends playing at the JC and he was recruited by the JC out of HS, but decided to give D1 a shot. I guess he is frustrated by his opportunities and the coaches, particularly a couple of new ones. He feels pretty strongly that he could start at the JC, which has one of the top JC programs in CA.

My advice would be for him to stick it out, but it is really his choice. My job is to present the scenarios and the consequences.

Hindsight. What a funny thing it is.

We too are going through this now and it just isn't any fun no matter how you look at it.

Good comment Dooer in regards to your job in merely presenting the scenarious and the consequences.

We have had friends son's that have played for the local JC while still attending the 4 year school. Apparently you can be concurrently enrolled @ both schools.

Two recent examples: player @ Cal poly SLO didn't make team as a walk-on and played @ Cuesta JC for 2 years while still being enrolled @ Cal Poly.

Player @ St. Mary's same scenario and played @ a near by JC for 2 years.

Dooer- it's worth looking into if your son wants to stay on track to graduate from his 4 yr college.

Good luck!

CaBB,

That is good info. I didnt know you could do that.

CaBB, does the player have to take classes at the JC, if so how many units?

I had heard the same stories but did not know the specifics.

I will find out the specifics from these players. I think they did take some units @ the JC in the spring but still took classes @ the 4 yr school. Will post the answer when I find out.

Thanks!

If that is the case, it would be interesting a ruling of if the player plays at a JC but is taking classes at the four year then he should be able to come back the following year and play at the original school.

It would be interesting how it affects the transfer rules if they want to go to another four year D1 school....

Confirmed with one of the player's parents that their son took a PE class @ the JC (2-3 units) while still being enrolled and taking classes @ St. Mary's. This was 2 years ago but might be worth checking into to see if the any of the new rules impact this.

quote:

Originally posted by CaBB:
Confirmed with one of the player's parents that their son took a PE class @ the JC (2-3 units) while still being enrolled and taking classes @ St. Mary's. This was 2 years ago but might be worth checking into to see if the any of the new rules impact this.

Here's a link to the California JC eligability requirements:

http://www.coasports.org/working/pdf/d-bylaw%201.pdf

1.3 Academic Eligibility
1.3.1 In order to be eligible for non-conference, conference, and PC, a student athlete must be
continuously and actively enrolled and attending class in a minimum of 12 units at his/
her California community college during the season of sport. Students dropping below
12 units are not eligible for competition until they are once again actively enrolled and
attending class in at least 12 units.

CollegeParent,
Thanks for that link. The eligibility rules do allow for multi-college districts, and a player can be enrolled in one college while competing in another within the district. But I suppose that a "multi-collge district" refers to JCs only and not to a combination of 4 year and 2 year schools.

In a reply that I gave Dooer a few posts ago, I supplied a link to the NJCAA and summarized one of their transfer rules. But that's inappropriate for Dooer Jr, because California JCs are governed by CCCAA rather than the NJCAA. As it happens the rules are nearly the same for Dooer's situation.

I don't think any of the CA 4 year colleges are part of a school district. Perhaps Cuesta has a special deal with Cal Poly? However I doubt the other JC coaches in the State would allow Cuesta to have such an advantage

My son had his fall meeting with his D1 coach. The coach said that he needs to take 12 units at the JC and if he also takes 6 units at the 4 year, he will be able to play at the JC this spring and return to the D1 next year, without penalty.

At least that was what I gathered from my son.

Dooer, What if your son wants to transfer to a different D1 school?

HR, I can't say for sure, but I doubt that would pass muster.

I think that the trick is that he is remaining in school at the original D1 and in theory, never left.

Just checking, I know when your son plays full time he will do well and would hope he could have additional options available to him.

Dooer,
I thought you had specifically inquired about a 4-2-4 transfer in which the second transfer would be to a different D1 school. The requirements for that have already been addressed earlier in this thread. Of course the requirements to play at the JC are the same regardless of his later college attendence.

The situation is very different for a 4-2-4 transfer who returns to his original D1 school. But it's not a trick; the player did leave, and is considered to be a transfer. The applicable rule is 14.5.6.1(a), which says that the returning player has no requirement for residency, assuming he has no residual requirement from his first enrollment. Effectively that means he needs to have been a qualifier as a freshman, and you've already posted that your son was a qualifier.

The other issue is academic progress. He needs to take 12 hours at the JC to be eligible there, and he needs to take a minimum of 6 hours in the fall of 2009 in order to meet several NCAA rules (but all of them are in 14.4.3). Some of these rules apply to all athletes and some additionally apply to transfers. In either case, for baseball, the new rules require the player to be academically in compliance at the beginning of the fall term.

So, basically, if next fall he transfers to different D1, he would need to have obtained the AA degree. If he returns to the original school, it's trivial to become eligible.

Beyond the rules, I think you said that he is frustrated with some of the coaches at his present school. Does he expect that will change in one year? In other words, is it realistic to plan to return to his original school?

3fingered,

I'm just along for the ride.

You are correct about the original discussion. I was asking about a transfer to another school.

I'm not sure what he wants to do. Whatever he decides, I will try to guide him and support him.