Help with HS Freshman Swing

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quincy; baseball swings all should allow and use that last bit of accelleration produced by the torque of the utensil.

Ding ! Yes!

Quincy, was it you that talked some time back about the "propelling of the hands"??? Or the hands getting propelled?

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Ding ! Yes!

Quincy, was it you that talked some time back about the "propelling of the hands"??? Or the hands getting propelled?

Here we go, progress. How many instructors, coaches or whatever. Try to turn every player into the same mold? Or, even worse, teach the Major League swing to a 10 year old? Try teaching a 10 year old to drop the back shoulder and hit a hard ground ball or line drive. DOES NOT WORK, and it will instill more bad habits. Here is the key. Muscle memory needs to have the chance to be developed in early years. Once bat speed is developed, getting there a "little early" is easier to understand.
JMHO

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A swing with a combination back hand , fore hand tennis swing would be a power swing with the greatest bat speed.

Quincy,

Are you saying that leverage between the hands is not important??? Do you not teach a hitter to keep the wrist angle as long as possible?

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Quincy,

Are you saying that leverage between the hands is not important??? Do you not teach a hitter to keep the wrist angle as long as possible?

I believe, Quincy is saying, it is important. However, Once you drop the hands from launch,,,,to hit the bottem of the ball, leverage is lost. Unless, as you mature as a hitter, you learn how to create the bat speed and hit against a strong frontside.

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Originally posted by Old School79:

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Quincy,

Are you saying that leverage between the hands is not important??? Do you not teach a hitter to keep the wrist angle as long as possible?

I believe, Quincy is saying, it is important. However, Once you drop the hands from launch,,,,to hit the bottem of the ball, leverage is lost. Unless, as you mature as a hitter, you learn how to create the bat speed and hit against a strong frontside.

This swing says otherwise.


http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Vi...wPitch_60FPS_001.gif

come on guys, follow the bouncing ball. the thread started with a fish, that wanted evaluation. He's a one piece hitter, with no load, with his current swing, he will be in trouble, any one disagree?

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This swing says otherwise.

JEEZ, IT's MANNY RAMERIZ, get a life. No hitter on the planet swings like him..........SO WE ARE ALL going to turn every hitter that we work with into him, Please look outside the glass.

powertoallfields -
Every swing you show is of a big league player, try to regress your thought process, just a "little bit".

Think of the front arm as the lever and the hands and wrists as the fulcrum.

The longer the lever the greater the force.

Once the swing is fired, the hands are just holding onto the bat. (string tension)

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Originally posted by Old School79:

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This swing says otherwise.

JEEZ, IT's MANNY RAMERIZ, get a life. No hitter on the planet swings like him..........SO WE ARE ALL going to turn every hitter that we work with into him, Please look outside the glass.

powertoallfields -
Every swing you show is of a big league player, try to regress your thought process, just a "little bit".

Oldschool,

I used that video to show that Manny is using leverage to make this swing. It is the reason you teach to hit behind a firm front side. It is the reason you teach to keep the wrist angle. It is the reason I teach to take the "power v" to the ball knob end first.

You can teach ANYONE to use leverage in their swing. If I had stills or video to post of youngsters doing this, I would, but I don't see the difference if it shows someone doing things the right way. For example, you wouldn't teach someone how to spell by showing words that kindergarteners have spelled wrong. Would you?

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The longer the lever the greater the force.

That only applies to a longer bat or a longer golf club. IMO, the bottom hand is the fulcrum and has to be moving slower than the top hand to get leverage. Both hands moving at equal speed is using no leverage.
I have seen many kids that try to use the philosophy of take your hands to the ball as you are suggesting here and they can't hit the ball to the opposite field with any authority.
The wrists need to hinge and start to unhinge before contact and continue to unhinge after contact.

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Both hands moving at equal speed is using no leverage.

Bingo.

The last accelleration in the swing happens because the bat is being forced to move in a circular path (string tension).

The bat head at this point is moving faster than the hands and/or wrists could propel.

In the terminology you often use, once the 'power v' is formed in front of the body, the bat will speed up by itself.

Consider the amount of additional bat speed increase at this point with 'hip turn'.

The batter in the video is employing many of the fundamentals, but he is employing them late (long to the zone). He would only be able to hit pitches in front of the plate with little room for error. (short through the zone).

Old School, most of us compare swings to MLB Players. Because someone plays in the bigs doesn't mean that we can't learn from them, take parts of their swing and incorporate those principles into a swing and then finally, try to create a plan for improvement of any given player. In fact, you mention Manny. I've tried to model much of what I do with my child after Manny's swing as well as some traits I recognize from Pujos. I've read comments that you can't do that with a 10-12 year old. I started with her at 10. I agree the end produce will be far into the future. However, the model for imporvement and a plan to achieve that improvement must have a goal.

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However, the model for imporvement and a plan to achieve that improvement must have a goal.

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I've read comments that you can't do that with a 10-12 year old. I started with her at 10. I agree the end produce will be far into the future. However, the model for imporvement and a plan to achieve that improvement must have a goal

I agree 100%, when you say there must be goals set, in any type of development.

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I believe, Quincy is saying, it is important. However, Once you drop the hands from launch,,,,to hit the bottem of the ball, leverage is lost. Unless, as you mature as a hitter, you learn how to create the bat speed and hit against a strong frontside.

As previously stated in the above quote, I feel that path and process or model and plan, if you prefer, are more important at the younger ages. Thus we do not teach young hitters to, drop the hands, loop and hit the bottem of the ball, we feel that young hitters lose extension and muscle memory in their lower half (hip direction-drive).

Will some develop the ability as they mature and get stronger, without a doubt, as I have stated in previous posts. Remember-this thread started with FAST BALLS up in the zone.

Old School, I've gone back and read. Where is there anywhere listed anyone on this site suggesting that they should hit the bottom of the ball? As per myself, I'm teaching to hit the middle of the ball by matching pitch plane. I pointed out the reality in terms of milliseconds and the fact that it is virtually impossible to see a ball at contact and so, when you suggested that you teach to hit with backspin on the ball how difficult this really is to hit that portion of the baseball with any consistency. BTW, the pitch is on a downward plane and so, the pitch plane center of the ball if looked from a side angle might seem to suggest what some might say is the bottom of the ball. It isn't.

If someone can consistently hit the bottom half of a dropping pitch, well, they better be swinging on a downward plane....

And, if they are, they'll never play MLB....But, then, neither did I....

CoachB25,

I wish your 15 year was a son and not a daughter, then you we put our two 15u teams together. Would make for an interesting matchup to say the least.

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Originally posted by CoachB25:
Old School79, please describe your concept of "extension" as it applies to the following:



Also, if you don't mind, in another thread, you mentioned 60-40 weight shift. What is your perception of this weight shift?

I am having problems with a coach that telling my son to extend to the ball and keep shoulders level but what i would like is the swig in the above picture this is the majors type swing we need to teach them (our kids) to hit like the pro
's do not just well enough to get thru H S ball

Extension comes after contact ....and to keep your shoulders level is almost impossible. You might be reading the coaches 'cues' wrong. Never take what your son tells you as the verbatim conversation the coach had with him. IMO unless your son is a 6'2'' 170 lb. freshman I don't think you should emulate a pro swing just yet. It's all a progression.

I've got a couple of questions..

First off to the original poster...throw the ball BELOW his belt and tell him to stop hitting balls at his eye level :P

As for several posters saying that because of the size "he'll never be a power hitter"..

WHY NOT?

I've got 12 year olds that are smaller than him and can hit the ball 300ft. Why does size dictate power at the plate?

I won't get into all the small arguments on this and that...

But my theory is that I'm only going to use the best MLB swings to emulate. And saying you can't teach those mechanics to younger kids is bull ****. Sure..not all kids will get it at 10 or 11..but if they are still playing by 13-14 they can "get it" then if they have someone break it down and explain / show it to 'em.

My son is 5'4" 125lbs or so... he regularly hits the ball over 250FT....why can't a 5'5" kid do the same?