I still don't get it. A college that recruited my son signed 21 players for next year.After reading there bios there is no way that he brought them in for a small offer or just books.My son was offered 40% and so was another player that we know.2 pitchers that were there at the same time that we were on our visit were both offered 70%.Thats 1.9 schollys right there as my son did not take the offer. What about the other 18 kids? Again they must offer more than 11.7 and then weed out who they don't want by the time the spring semester starts so they are at the legal limit.One of the players that we knew was also given a waiver of out of state tuition along with his 40 % to bring his sholarship to around 75 %.Do the rules differ for teams that are ranked in the top 20 or does it differ for some conferences.I know that the Big-10 is not allowed to overrecruit.
hr21,
If you go back and reread the entire thread you will understand that the offers DO not add up to 1.9. The coach is giving you percentages because we all understand that better. When you work out dollar amounts, 4 players could add up to less than .5 at some schools, even with what appears like big percentages.
Yes some do over recruit, but in the end come into compliance by the third game. We were interested in the schools that had the same number on spring as fall, around 35.
Rules don't differ for top 20, tehy just have a lot more money to spend than the smaller schools.
If you go back and reread the entire thread you will understand that the offers DO not add up to 1.9. The coach is giving you percentages because we all understand that better. When you work out dollar amounts, 4 players could add up to less than .5 at some schools, even with what appears like big percentages.
Yes some do over recruit, but in the end come into compliance by the third game. We were interested in the schools that had the same number on spring as fall, around 35.
Rules don't differ for top 20, tehy just have a lot more money to spend than the smaller schools.
quote:but in the end come into compliance by the third game. We were interested in the schools that had the same number on spring as fall, around 35.
TPM, If colleges aren't required to come into compliance until the third game, what limits the number of scholarships they can give out in the fall?
Fungo,
for some schools they are only limited by the amount the school gives them. If there is no conference rule (America East, Big Ten, those I know)then they have no limit as long as the school has the $$$$. The 2 conferences I mentioned have a rule stating that at NO time can they be over 11.7. Not so in some of the others.
for some schools they are only limited by the amount the school gives them. If there is no conference rule (America East, Big Ten, those I know)then they have no limit as long as the school has the $$$$. The 2 conferences I mentioned have a rule stating that at NO time can they be over 11.7. Not so in some of the others.
Regarding over recruiting. My son played 4 years for a top tier BB program (and graduated!). I went back and reviewed the list of signees for the each year during his playing career. Around 1/3 of each year's class ended up playing a significant role on the team. Most of the balance transferred to other schools. All of the signees were all-stars at high school or Jr College. Some of the transfers ended up having good careers at 2nd tier programs with some being drafted into pro ball. The pressure to win is intense at the top programs - the coach wins (and earns a NCAA berth) every year or is out of a job. Over recruiting is a response to this pressure. The reality is that many player & parent dreams are dashed as a result. This is not meant to discourage anyone from 'going for it' by signing into a top tier program - just be aware of what happens to most of the signees at some of these schools - they are quickly weeded out by the Darwinian process that success, money and popularity is driving at some of the top level college baseball programs. I imagine the same reality exists in other sports at this level.
Snoop,
Very true IMO.
Talent isnt the only issue to deal with in D-1 baseball in many programs.
It is just one piece of a pretty complex puzzle.
Talent - even if applied - guarantees nothing.
Money - for some programs - is critical - and comes into play more than most understand. This isnt NCAA football or basketball - NCAA baseball is still "neanderthal stuff" relative to those big time sports.
Very true IMO.
Talent isnt the only issue to deal with in D-1 baseball in many programs.
It is just one piece of a pretty complex puzzle.
Talent - even if applied - guarantees nothing.
Money - for some programs - is critical - and comes into play more than most understand. This isnt NCAA football or basketball - NCAA baseball is still "neanderthal stuff" relative to those big time sports.
Fungo,
My understanding is about the same as Coach Merc.
I don't know how they do it, maybe they have a lot on academic?
I didn't realize that some conferences have their own rules.
I will be on it though and get back to you all as to how it's done.
My understanding is about the same as Coach Merc.
I don't know how they do it, maybe they have a lot on academic?
I didn't realize that some conferences have their own rules.
I will be on it though and get back to you all as to how it's done.
TPM, I do not doubt you about the 3rd game compliance date but there must be more to this. I know one SEC school where the scholarship varies between the fall semester and the spring semester. For instance; the University would offer to pay for everything the fall semester and the student/athlete pay for everything the spring semester. This offer was made to my son and they described it as a 50% scholarship. Made sense to me. I asked why they did it in that manner and they said it was just the way they did it. But after reading your post and if I understand you correctly, the compliance date of “the third game” would allow the university to give unlimited full ride scholarships to baseball players in the fall and then eliminate them in the spring? Could the players stay on without his scholarship? If this were the case the university could avoid the NCAA rule of 11.7 scholarships and award unlimited 50% scholarships. I’m a little confused.
Fungo
Fungo
Fungo,
Yes, is a bit confusing. Interesting, now that I think back son was offered at one school fall tuition, room, board, fees, etc. and we paid for spring. And at another, we paid for school food and dorm one semester and they paid for one. Now that I think about it, and what I passed onto you in a pm, if they had to come into compliance second semester, my son wouldn't even be counted in the 11.7!!!! Sneeeeaky! Anyone else have this offer?
I am not positive about the third game in compliance, I was told today usually by January, February. Coach I suppose could use up most of funds in the fall. Maybe this is why some conferences have rules and others don't.
So, now maybe we can understand how it's done, how 10 players on a team can have 50% scholarships. They are not skirting the 11.7, but if they had player paying for spring, etc, they can get in 11.7. All a school has to report is how many scholarships are given, not how many players.
I also told you that loading up in fall and getting into compliance by season is not looked upon as very ethical by many coaches.
Why can't a player stay on? The scholarship offer is good for the YEAR, right?
As stated before, the bottom line is that one is happy with the offer given, no matter how it's given. It may just kind of explain why some schools can load up in the fall, and stretch that 11.7 in the spring, or just carry larger rosters. I happen to think it is a good theory as to over recuiting and makes a whole lot of sense.
Did we crack the recruiting code?
Yes, is a bit confusing. Interesting, now that I think back son was offered at one school fall tuition, room, board, fees, etc. and we paid for spring. And at another, we paid for school food and dorm one semester and they paid for one. Now that I think about it, and what I passed onto you in a pm, if they had to come into compliance second semester, my son wouldn't even be counted in the 11.7!!!! Sneeeeaky! Anyone else have this offer?
I am not positive about the third game in compliance, I was told today usually by January, February. Coach I suppose could use up most of funds in the fall. Maybe this is why some conferences have rules and others don't.
So, now maybe we can understand how it's done, how 10 players on a team can have 50% scholarships. They are not skirting the 11.7, but if they had player paying for spring, etc, they can get in 11.7. All a school has to report is how many scholarships are given, not how many players.
I also told you that loading up in fall and getting into compliance by season is not looked upon as very ethical by many coaches.
Why can't a player stay on? The scholarship offer is good for the YEAR, right?
As stated before, the bottom line is that one is happy with the offer given, no matter how it's given. It may just kind of explain why some schools can load up in the fall, and stretch that 11.7 in the spring, or just carry larger rosters. I happen to think it is a good theory as to over recuiting and makes a whole lot of sense.
Did we crack the recruiting code?