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Tonight my son's team tried the hidden ball trick. The umpire called a balk because of the position of the pitcher. The game was in time out, the catcher asked the pitcher for the ball. During the time out he gave the ball to the third baseman where there was a runner. The catcher then asked the umpire to tell him when the ball was in play. After sweeping off the plate, the umpire said "Play ball". The pitcher was at the edge of the mound but not near the rubber. The catcher told the 3rd baseman "now" and the 3rd baseman tagged the runner out(who had taken a lead). The plate umpire immediatley called the runner out. The field umpire comes running in and calls a conference. While everyone is waiting they discuss the matter, then change the call to safe and declare a balk. My questions are; How close to the rubber can the pitcher be? and Can the field umpire call a conference to change a ruling? I don't have a HS rule book, but in MLB the rules state that the pitcher just can't be on or straddliing the rubber, but can be on the mound and that a field umpire only enters a confernce if asked by the plate umpire. What are HS rules on this.

Thanks for your help.
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A dead ball is back in play when the pitcher is on the rubber, ready to make a pitch. A pitcher cannot be on the rubber without the ball, then it is a balk. If the pitcher is anywhere near the mound feigning to get on the mound or standing at/near the base, then it should be a balk, when the ball is "live".

In this case it seams like the ball was not officially "in play" yet, since the pitcher was not on the rubber. To me this is a No Play.

Hint, next time don't do this stunt coming from a time out.
Last edited by Glove Man
It is a big nothing. First the PU shouldn't have put the ball in play until the pitcher is on the rubber. Even if the pitcher had toed the rubber and got the ball in it is still nothing because the ball is being put in play incorrectly. Once the PU realizes that F1 doesn't have the ball then he should tell him to get it and put the ball in play again. If you try this when the ball is live then the pitcher can't be within 5ft of the rubber.
As stated, the hidden ball trick can only be successful when the ball is live.....so coming out of a Dead ball and to make the ball live, the pitcher has to have the ball on the rubber.......

on the umpires side it is why the rule book tells us to keep our eyes "everlastingly" on the ball....in this case, there is no problem with the base umpire overruling the plate umpire who put the ball in play in error.......

in my experience, the HBT is rarely successful...

in the original post, bad umpiring call by both umpires....this is a nothing...reset the ball on the rubber..then call play
Last edited by piaa_ump
We pulled it of in our USSSA world series game. It was a hit to right and the guy got on first. The first baseman walked to the pitcher and acted like he hand the ball to the pitcher. The pitcher never got on the dirt on the mound. The runner takes a step off and we tag him. Is that a legal one, the coach of the other team swore it was illegal.


Im pretty sure a situation like this is legal, correct?
catcher09 ask if it is true that "A dead ball is back in play when the pitcher is on the rubber, ready to make a pitch."

The answer is no.

By rule, in OBR, NFHS, and NCAA, there are three requirements to place a dead ball back into play.

They are: 1) pitcher has possesion of the ball and is in contact with the rubber; 2) batter is in the box (newly added for 2007 in NCAA); 3) the umpire signals play either verbally or visually. See rules OBR 5.11 and 3.12, NFHS 5-1-4, and NCAA 6-6. NFHS also requires the catcher to be in position.

OBR 5.09(e) additionally requires that all base runners have retouched following a foul ball before the ball can be put into play, but this is seldom enforced in real life.

I'm not sure why catcher09 wanted to know specifically the requirements for putting the ball back into play. But Carl Childress in the BRD poses this situation: "R1- there has been a dead ball. The pitcher is ready, you are ready, and B1 is in the box--looking down with his hand raised. Suddenly the pitcher picks off R1. It's your decision whether R1 is back in the dugout or stays on base."

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