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HIDDEN IVIES

Ryanrod23Ryanrod231,000+ posts
Happy Holidays everyone! During the course of our college search, I stumbled upon this book regarding the 50 hidden ivies which I want to share. It explains what criterias were used to determine why they emulate an IVY education.

I think it is an alternative to the Original 8 and another option for baseball players who wants a great academic experience while still playing competitively.

This link provides the 1st chapter of the book free at Amazon.
Hidden Ivies


Northeast
Amherst College
Barnard College
Bates College
Boston College
Bowdoin College
Bryn Mawr College
Bucknell University
Colby College
Colgate University
Hamilton College
Haverford College
Lafayette College
Lehigh University
Middlebury College
Mount Holyoke College
Smith College
Swarthmore College
Trinity College
Tufts University
University of Rochester
Vassar College
Wellesley College
Wesleyan University
Williams College

South
Davidson College
Duke University
Emory University
Georgetown University
Johns Hopkins University
Rice University
Tulane University
University of Richmond
Vanderbilt University
Wake Forest University
Washington and Lee University

Midwest
Carleton College
Grinnell College
Kenyon College
Macalester College
Northwestern University
University of Chicago
University of Notre Dame
Oberlin College
Washington University in St. Louis

West
Claremont McKenna College
Colorado College
Pomona College
Reed College
Stanford University
University of Southern California

"A diamond is just a chunk of coal that made good under pressure."

Original Post

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RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
The concept of an Ivy-like college is a small, private liberal arts college. A large university, state university or state land grant university would not fit the profile.

I'm not sure why people get so hung up on this stuff. I do know from growing up in New England many people in the region look down their noses at public universities as second rate college educations. They will pay 50K for their kids to attend what I see as second rate, northeast, private colleges. They're unaware outside New England are many excellent state supported universities.

A college without the "pedigree" may be the best college for a kid due to a specific major.
Last edited by RJM
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
I am familiar with some of the colleges listed that are nowhere near comparable to Ivy schools.

Seriously, a degree from some of those schools or a degree from Harvard, which would you rather have on your resume?

That said, there are many (probably all) great academic colleges listed in this thread and many others not yet listed.

Also need to say… most all college degrees can be very valuable.
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
"The concept of an Ivy-like college is a small, private liberal arts college. "

I was going to get upset about the omission of The Alma Mater of a Nation until I realized that every school on that list is private.

But I don't know why anyone would overlook public universities that otherwise fit the bill in compiling any such lists. Maybe this was put out by an association of private university admissions department chiefs?
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
I am familiar with some of the colleges listed that are nowhere near comparable to Ivy schools.


I agree.
I did understand the point of the topic for the spirit in which it was intended, one can receive a great education from any one of the above listed and be proud to list it on their resume. Ivy league is a conference designation, most above do not have the prestige, history, selective admissions (though maybe the education depending on degree) as the Ivies do.

JMO.
Ryanrod23Ryanrod231,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Ryanrod23:
I think it is an alternative to the Original 8 and another option for baseball players who wants a great academic experience while still playing competitively.


Thanks for all the input and keep it coming. I have no idea on most of these schools or its own baseball programs until I saw this list. I am glad that you are sharing your views.

Maybe I could have phrased this better by saying if a player may or may not be qualified for an Ivy that there are other academic/athletic avenues to pursue.

Based on the responses, I feel there are certain schools that may not belong based on the criteria of getting great academics, playing good baseball
(COLORADO COLLEGE is out) and having solid foundation or reputation.

If we are to consider these 3 criterias, maybe we can get a TOP 5 or 8 from each division. Since Colorado College is out in the West Division only 5 will be left.

Northeast

South

Midwest

West


Bottomline still boils down to the right fit academically, athletically and financially! It's no easy task and require lots of research. I can say for sure that at this point in time, you guys' advice/opinions in wide range of topics are invaluable. Many thanks as we wind down this year and welcome the incoming year!
Last edited by Ryanrod23
VectorVector1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by RJM:
Did the person who wrote this book graduate from USC. It's a good school. But comparable to an Ivy? LOL!


Keep in mind that while USC (CA) might not be an Ivy League education, it is as good or better than many on the list. The other thing USC has going for it is a strong alumni which is great at networking and placing their graduates.

There is also little doubt that you can get a great education at other prestigious academic universities without some of the negative aspects of the "Ivy league". Examples would be Duke, Rice, etc., that have better weather and are not bastions of liberal brainwashing (i.e. political correctness).
Last edited by Vector
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
"Examples would be Duke ... that ... are not bastions of liberal brainwashing (i.e. political correctness)."

Boy, memories are short. It was the Duke faculty and university president, mind you, who pretty much lynched the lacross team just a few years ago by assuming that accusations of a stripper were truthful and that the players should therefore be punished immediately and strongly without much if any chance to defend themselves. African-American woman vs. rich white males, that pretty much cinched it in their minds.

I'm not trying to pile on Duke, which of course is a fine university all around. But if you're thinking that you're safe from political correctness in ANY of our higher education institutions, you're kidding yourself. It seems to be an occupational affliction. (Or more aptly, a requirement for getting hired in the first place.)
Last edited by Midlo Dad
L leftyshortstop1,000+ posts
I'm sorry Midlo- I have to call you out here. I lecture at an Ivy University that is supposed to be one of the most liberal in the country and I lecture at a Patriot league school that is supposed to be one of the most conservative in the country. The kids, the faculty and the curriculums of both schools are nearly identical (with the Ivy kids being just a little brighter, and the Patriot League kids having slightly wealthier parents). Political discussions at both schools are identical, and span the huge cross-section of opinion in our country. No political affiliation is ever mentioned, implied, discussed or required of any of us. Everyone in administration is concerned about preparing kids to lead businesses. The kids are concerned about getting A's and starting their careers. Most of the time, I wish the kids would "lighten up" a little and talk about something else....including politics - but they never do.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
I think that a lot has to do with where you live. Networking can be very important and a degree from UF, UM or FSU here in FL might be more helpful than one from 3K away.

RJM once brought up a great point, if you do not reside in the northeast, it is very difficult to understand why for so many, it is important to send their offspring to an IVY League, if that doesn't happen than degrees from Duke, Rice, Vanderbilt, Vassar,Stanford, Notre Dame, John Hopkins, and a few others mentioned hold significance.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by leftyshortstop:
I'm sorry Midlo- I have to call you out here. I lecture at an Ivy University that is supposed to be one of the most liberal in the country and I lecture at a Patriot league school that is supposed to be one of the most conservative in the country. The kids, the faculty and the curriculums of both schools are nearly identical (with the Ivy kids being just a little brighter, and the Patriot League kids having slightly wealthier parents). Political discussions at both schools are identical, and span the huge cross-section of opinion in our country. No political affiliation is ever mentioned, implied, discussed or required of any of us. Everyone in administration is concerned about preparing kids to lead businesses. The kids are concerned about getting A's and starting their careers. Most of the time, I wish the kids would "lighten up" a little and talk about something else....including politics - but they never do.


Weren't some of the Patriot schools once in the IVY League?

BTW, why aren't those schools mentioned in the Hidden Ivies list?
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
LeftySS--

I don't want to derail the thread any further. I'll just say I'm glad your experiences are different from my own. Maybe there are still a few bastions of hope out there. But between having had three kids in college the last few years, representing students and families in disputes with them as their lawyer, dealing with numerous college representatives during a short stretch in the state legislature, and having two immediate family members who work at colleges, I'll definitely stand by my comments.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
My daughter and I went on a tour of an elite northeast small college when she was a high school soph. At the end of the tour we we herded into an auditorium for a talk. The professor told the group the college will strip our kids of every moral and value they've been taught by their parents and be taught to think for themselves.

Being the quiet person I am Smile I turned to my daughter and told her I'm not paying for a liberal indoctrination. We got up and walked out. Several families followed.

This past semester in an intro to poly sci course my son's class was asked to write about OWS. He wrote about personal responsibility for one's self and then a social responsibility to help the community. He received a D on the paper.

No! There's no liberalism on the college campuses.
Last edited by RJM
VectorVector1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Midlo Dad:

Boy, memories are short. It was the Duke faculty and university president, mind you, who pretty much lynched the lacross team just a few years ago by assuming that accusations of a stripper were truthful and that the players should therefore be punished immediately and strongly without much if any chance to defend themselves. African-American woman vs. rich white males, that pretty much cinched it in their minds.

I'm not trying to pile on Duke, which of course is a fine university all around. But if you're thinking that you're safe from political correctness in ANY of our higher education institutions, you're kidding yourself. It seems to be an occupational affliction. (Or more aptly, a requirement for getting hired in the first place.)


We may have a different definition of what PC constitutes. To me the Duke Lacrosse incident was not directly about PC, rather a rush to judgment based on an accusation of rape(all be it with a racial factor). While I will in no way defend the university and their capricious actions, trying to mitigate a PR disaster and litigation was undoubtedly foremost on their mind. Needless to say it backfired on them.

PC as I define it on college campuses range from suppression of speech to an overwhelming effort to achieve diversity and multiculturalism at the expense of dissenting points of view. The traditional ideal of liberalism on campus was a demand for any type of speech, the more controversial the better.
Now days the promotion of Voiltre by liberals "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it", is but a distant memory.
Instead college campuses have stripped away any semblance of actual religion at the expense of the new alter they worship at, that being PC. If anyone dares touch the sacred cow of PC for a protected group(i.e. any and all minorities), they are made to apologize and are demanded to attend the equivalent of re-education camps, now referred to as sensitivity training. Only white male Christians may be assailed in the most vile ways. Dare to even imply that a minority is slightly lacking in any aspect of life, and the students are excoriated.

But I digress. Many of the Ivy league colleges are infected with PC to the point of parents refusing to send their children, less they return a different person. The examples are endless, but I do not want to drag this thread too far off topic, so I will leave it at that. Dissenting points of view are welcome in another thread, if someone choses to start one on the subject.
Last edited by Vector
L like2rake1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Vector:
quote:
Originally posted by Midlo Dad:

Boy, memories are short. It was the Duke faculty and university president, mind you, who pretty much lynched the lacross team just a few years ago by assuming that accusations of a stripper were truthful and that the players should therefore be punished immediately and strongly without much if any chance to defend themselves. African-American woman vs. rich white males, that pretty much cinched it in their minds.

I'm not trying to pile on Duke, which of course is a fine university all around. But if you're thinking that you're safe from political correctness in ANY of our higher education institutions, you're kidding yourself. It seems to be an occupational affliction. (Or more aptly, a requirement for getting hired in the first place.)


We may have a different definition of what PC constitutes. To me the Duke Lacrosse incident was not directly about PC, rather a rush to judgment based on an accusation of rape(all be it with a racial factor). While I will in no way defend the university and their capricious actions, trying to mitigate a PR disaster and litigation was undoubtedly foremost on their mind. Needless to say it backfired on them.

PC as I define it on college campuses range from suppression of speech to an overwhelming effort to achieve diversity and multiculturalism at the expense of dissenting points of view. The traditional ideal of liberalism on campus was a demand for any type of speech, the more controversial the better.
Now days the promotion of Voiltre by liberals "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it", is but a distant memory.
Instead college campuses have stripped away any semblance of actual religion at the expense of the new alter they worship at, that being PC. If anyone dares touch the sacred cow of PC for a protected group(i.e. any and all minorities), they are made to apologize and are demanded to attend the equivalent of re-education camps, now referred to as sensitivity training. Only white male Christians may be assailed in the most vile ways. Dare to even imply that a minority is slightly lacking in any aspect of life, and the students are excoriated.

But I digress. Many of the Ivy league colleges are infected with PC to the point of parents refusing to send their children, less they return a different person. The examples are endless, but I do not want to drag this thread too far off topic, so I will leave it at that. Dissenting points of view are welcome in another thread, if someone choses to start one on the subject.


Wow, that is some wild stuff!
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
I can tell you the Duke situation was all about PC. I grew up in Durham and live only 20 minutes from the campus. I was a Police Officer in Durham and retired from the DPD in 1998. The media, the school Admin, the Mayor, DA, everyone jumped on this with both feet. The pressure brought to rush to judgement was enormous. If those young men did not have the financial resources to fight these charges that they have they would be rotting away in prison cells right now. The DA was under so much pressure to charge and attempt to convict these kids it was ridiculous. No one was willing to stand up except those that were paid enormous amounts of money to do so.

When the Duke Univ professors marched with the students in protest of these players before a trial was ever held what does that tell you? The only thing that saved these guys was the fact they had the resources at their disposal to mount the type of defense that it took to save them. Anyone else would have been toast.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
Through a friend (friend's daughter went to the sister private school of one of the boys) I casually know one of the families involved in the Duke situation. After it was all over the kid said his first name might as well be "Accused Duke Rapist" regardless of the end result. That's what a rush to judgement did to three kids.

The only thing these kids were guilty of was have a kegger with a stripper when they were visible athletes. Poor judgement? Yes. A felony charge where the scars last a lifetime despite being innocent? No.
hokieonehokieone5,000+ posts
If you want to hear how political correctness works, ask your college kids the reception college students get in Biology classes when they dare mention Creationism during Evolution discussions-even the possibility of a Creator is met with an "you're one of those kind" looks....amazing the seed that Darwin planted when he sold around 1,000 copies of his book, and how anyone raising the evidentiary issues that should rightly be part of any such discussion is dismissed as just not a right thinker.
slottyslotty500+ posts
To each his own--thank goodness there are tons of choices. And I applaud those posting here on HSBBW who provide information that will broaden--rather than limit--the choices that high school baseball players are contemplating.

Having a multitude of options is, admittedly, one of the primary reasons why the process of choosing a college is so packed with anxiety--for chldren and parents alike! For every person extolling the virtues of a particular college or type of college, there will be an equal number who denigrate it--that's life.

Here are two complementary quotes from two wise men:

"Man is man because he is free to operate within the framework of his destiny. He is free to deliberate, to make decisions, and to choose between alternatives." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

"Whatever course you decide upon, there is always someone to tell you that you are wrong. There are always difficulties arising which tempt you to believe that your critics are right. To map out a course of action and follow it to an end requires courage." --Ralph Waldo Emerson
Last edited by slotty
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by hokieone:
If you want to hear how political correctness works, ask your college kids the reception college students get in Biology classes when they dare mention Creationism during Evolution discussions-even the possibility of a Creator is met with an "you're one of those kind" looks....amazing the seed that Darwin planted when he sold around 1,000 copies of his book, and how anyone raising the evidentiary issues that should rightly be part of any such discussion is dismissed as just not a right thinker.
How would you have a school teach creationism without turning the class into a bible study? There's a place for bible study (church, temple, etc.).
EyeontheballEyeontheball100+ posts
Hokie - sorry to take the thread off track, but I have to respond to your statement. The reception you describe has nothing to do with political correctness. The student response you describe would be based on an awareness of accepted science in a learning environment, not a faith-based belief system that has no relevance in a Biology class. There is a time and place for everything.
JF Jones fan100+ posts
How would you have a school teach creationism without turning the class into a bible study? There's a place for bible study (church, temple, etc.).[/QUOTE]


Nathan Frankkowsi's and Ben Stein's "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" might be a good place for you to start. Creationism does not equal Bible Study anymore than non-intelligent design equals the only legitimate scientific theory. Hence the "theory" part. Science can't prove anything about it, we can only speculate.

Regardless, back to the original thread. A fascinating site on about finding good colleges that equal or outproduce the Ivies is http://www.ctcl.org/about/why-ctcl

The Ivies are great schools, but there are many schools that outproduce them in various majors, especially in science and Tech fields.
55mom55mom1,000+ posts
I homeschooled for many years, and have to say it was a real eye opener.

RJM, many people who choose to accept creationism over evolution, get stuck on the word "theory". Using the same standard for both, the scientific definition of "theory" is applicable, since neither method of earth development can be proven. In fact, there are two different versions of creation in the Bible, so which one do we pick?

Rest assured, I've been laughed at and I've been told I'm not a good Christian because I side with the scientific community. I don't understand the vehemence of some when others respectfully disagree. However, I just can't agree that the earth is 6,000 years old.
BaseballmomandCEPBaseballmomandCEP1,000+ posts
If the people posting here are very interested in examining college campus 'cultures' and faculty leanings based on this "PC" issue, I suggest you look at "Choosing the Right College: The Whole Truth about America's Top Schools." Publisher is ISI.

I ordered it not realizing its conservative agenda, and I am neither endorsing it nor knocking it. I have some families that value its point of view, and some that would find it offensive!

But if this conversation is important to you, and this frame of reference has value for you, it is a book that really tries hard to sort out this issue on some top college campuses. It examines the core curriculum very carefully which I find to be helpful regardless of your "PC is good/PC is bad" point of view!


Happy New Year to all!
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
QUOTE]On the Jewish calendar it's 5772.[/QUOTE]

That's BC so it just goes to show ya whose world we really live in. Smile

All kidding aside, I never expected in a science class that anything other than scientific facts be discussed.

Thank you for that info Baseballmom!
Last edited by TPM
hokieonehokieone5,000+ posts
What's the line in Major League-"Let's not start a Holy war here".

My point was that evolution is indeed a theory and certainly should be taught, but creationism is also a "theory", which gets knocked out because of the faith element. Evolution doesn't, and can't, answer the question as to how it all started. I've seen plenty of evidence of evolution within a species-just look at the Olympic records in the early 1900's and how the elite athletes have gotten bigger, faster, stronger, but haven't seen any evidence that "species X" became "species Y".


End of point, baseball is more fun...and I don't understand that linear vs. whatever else argument anyway...

I rest my keyboard.
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