Hide a "bad" SAT/ACT score?

I wouldn't worry about hiding a 1310, even for HA schools.  My son was told by many HAs (including Ivies) that he needed at least a 1300 to be in the mix.  If he tutors and studies and does practice tests it is definitely possible to improve to 1400+ from where he is.

Also, if the coaches like what they see on the field they will tell him exactly what scores and grades he'll need to get.

My son got in the high 1200’s on his first try. He told the coach’s he’s getting a private tutor and will do much better the next time. He did. His comment showed determination to improve. It’s a positive trait.

1310 will work for many HA’s. If they’re looking for 1350 they will believe he will do better the second time. Most kids improve their scores.

SATs are becoming less important for some colleges. But regardless I know kids who played at Ivies with 1350.

It was 1320, which is actually lower than his PSAT score, even though that test had a lower possible total.  Maybe we should share both?

@LousyLefty posted:

It was 1320, which is actually lower than his PSAT score, even though that test had a lower possible total.  Maybe we should share both?

PSAT is on a different scale (1520 max) so the scores are not directly comparable. In any case, 10 points is within the margin of error and IMO not worth mentioning.  I would relax and let him play, this is ultimately what will decide things.

Most schools are not requiring SAT/ACT for 2022s at all, are they?  Do the athletic departments still want them?

For that matter, what has the NCAA done about this for the Eligibility Center, does anyone know?

@LousyLefty posted:

It was 1320, which is actually lower than his PSAT score, even though that test had a lower possible total.  Maybe we should share both?

My son is a 2023 with a 1400 PSAT. So far the college coaches have told my son's HS and travel coaches they can't really do anything until he has an actual SAT score. I guess it does help get on their radar though. Most have asked when they will be able to see him in person. Not sure if that would be different for a 2022.

Good advice above. I'll add this: have him take the ACT too. Many kids do better on it than on the SAT, and vice versa.

@anotherparent posted:

Most schools are not requiring SAT/ACT for 2022s at all, are they?  Do the athletic departments still want them?

If you plan on combining athletic money with academic money you may have to take them. D1 rules says you need either a 3.5 or 1270 SAT (not sure what they want for ACT). Of course that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Most schools now are not asking for ACT/SAT scores even for 2022 Fall.

But it sure did help with getting academic money along with the baseball scholly.

Also a tutor we used a while ago guarantees 5 point increase on ACT.

Also know that the ACT is more English/language etc while SAT is more math/science. So take the test to your strength.

I believe all that is true.  I also knew several players who had to take the tests several times to get the minimum needed for admission to (non-HA) schools.

I'm just wondering, if the schools themselves don't require the tests for admission, how can athletic departments require them?

On the one hand, they are a metric that the school can use to evaluate a player for admission, at any level.  On the other hand, the schools are saying applicants don't have to take the test at all, so presumably the athletics departments don't need to see scores.

I’d tell my kid to be honest about it, and tell the coach that he wasn’t satisfied with the results and that he worked harder in preparation for the 2nd try.  That would tell the coach something about the kid’s character, work ethic, and personality.

Good thing you got registered for 6/5 since you've decided a score is important.  Pretty hard to get a seat at one of these tests before fall.  It's nuts, and we're not going to use scores simply because we can't get a second test and I refuse to have him use the first score he got, no matter what it was--well, maybe I'd let him use a 32 ACT/1400 SAT. Score like that and it's gonna be all about the baseball.

So you don't think the coaches will care if he doesn't have a score at all?

This is not advice. It's just what we're doing.  If he'd been able to register for a 6/5 test he would have, with the hope that he would hit 1300 SAT/28 ACT. Since that's not the score he got, we're not using it at all.  If admissions doesn't need it, as mentioned above, why would a coach need it.  I knew a kid who had a 3.7 from a good, not elite, private school with curriculum that was average for that school.  His SAT didn't match up with his grades. He was applying to an extremely elite school and the coach there told him not to use the SAT.  He was waitlisted but then did everything admissions asked of him, pled his case, and finally got in.

O.k., I looked up the answer myself:

"Students who initially enroll full time during the 2021-22 or 2022-23 academic years and intend to play NCAA Division I or II athletics will not be required to take a standardized test to meet NCAA initial-eligibility requirements."

https://www.ncaa.org/about/res...eligibility-policies

Of course, that doesn't mean that a HA school might not ask for them for athletic recruits, but here was the Ivy League last summer:  "Given the ongoing issues with standardized testing in light of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Ivy League will not require prospective student-athletes to submit test scores during the 2020-21 application cycle."

https://ivyleague.com/news/202...ng-requirements.aspx

Apparently they haven't updated it for next year yet.

Good info....thanks for sharing it.  We've looked at over 50 liberal arts colleges' admissions requirements and none of them are asking for these tests for 2022 applicants.  That doesn't mean none of them are asking but colleges should have that info available by now. It's getting late in the game to be uncertain about whether you HAVE to have it or not.

The college counselor at my son’s prep put it this way, most schools won’t require them this year, but it doesn’t mean they have to ignore them either. I would think test scores will absolutely be used to differentiate between two players of similar ability. If you don’t have test scores you better be a stud or have a badass resume. The admissions office will want proof the kid will be able to handle the academic rigor of their schools.

This has been a thorny issue between the kid and parents. He tells me he doesn't need it and I tell him it is for FA. He gets "pouty" and I ignore it...two weeks before test, same discussion and response. Three days before test, same discuss and response. Saturday can't come fast enough. 

@2022NYC posted:

This has been a thorny issue between the kid and parents. He tells me he doesn't need it and I tell him it is for FA. He gets "pouty" and I ignore it...two weeks before test, same discussion and response. Three days before test, same discuss and response. Saturday can't come fast enough.

Sounds like a fantastic opportunity to introduce him to the wonderful world of FAFSA, CSS financial aid programs, and personal finance! 

https://www.kiplinger.com/pers...ff-250000-in-student

Best of luck on the test!

@nycdad posted:

If you plan on combining athletic money with academic money you may have to take them. D1 rules says you need either a 3.5 or 1270 SAT (not sure what they want for ACT). Of course that doesn't seem to be the case here.

That is how is used to be.  The D1 Council voted to change that rule in 2020.  Need based aid and academic aid no longer count against the 11.7 regardless of class rank, gpa or test scores.  

@22and25 posted:

That is how is used to be.  The D1 Council voted to change that rule in 2020.  Need based aid and academic aid no longer count against the 11.7 regardless of class rank, gpa or test scores.  

That was an exception I believe. It's in the current rules. I just went through this with my 2022, who is borderline 3.5 at a difficult academic HS and not yet a 1270. It was an issue.

Opinion: Do not hide it.
HA coaches have seen tons of kids with 4.0 GPAs who never score 1300 on SAT, so they would much rather see a first attempt 1320 than no score.
Not all HA baseball is the same. I am 100% sure that there are Ivy coaches who can support a 1320 kid through admissions. There may be NESCAC schools where that is not the case.
With all the craziness of the past year, I have to wonder if SAT scores aren't down in general. I wouldn't be surprised if 1320 isn't in a higher percentile than pre-covid.
Just the fact that he's managed to take the test (during covid) is a positive.

@nycdad posted:

That was an exception I believe. It's in the current rules. I just went through this with my 2022, who is borderline 3.5 at a difficult academic HS and not yet a 1270. It was an issue.

Was this at a school that has said that test scores are not required for admission?

I don't see how they can use test scores for financial aid or merit awards if they aren't required of all students for admission.  I can see that they might still want them for athletes.

@anotherparent posted:

Was this at a school that has said that test scores are not required for admission?

I don't see how they can use test scores for financial aid or merit awards if they aren't required of all students for admission.  I can see that they might still want them for athletes.

This is an NCAA rule. Not school specific. Another example is my 2020 is required to maintain a 2.5GPA to keep his academic scholarship according to his college, but NCAA D1 rules say you need to maintain a 3.0 so academic and athletic can be combined.

The school my 2022 committed to does not require SATs for admittance.

This is from the D1 handbook dated August 2020

"Academic Honor Awards -- Based on High School Record. Academic honor awards that are part of an institution’s normal arrangements for academic scholarships, based solely on the recipient’s high school record and awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by the institution, are exempt from an institution’s equivalency computations, provided the recipient was ranked in the upper 10 percent of the high school graduating class or achieved a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.500 (based on a maximum of 4.000) or a minimum ACT sum score of 105 or a minimum SAT score of 1200 (critical reading and math) for SAT tests taken before March 1, 2016; or a minimum SAT score of 1270 (critical reading and math) for tests taken on or after March 1, 2016, based on the concordance determined by the College Board. (Adopted: 1/12/99 effective 8/1/99, Revised: 1/14/08 effective 8/1/08, 1/16/10 effective 8/1/10, 2/2/16) 1

Yep, but the point is that the NCAA rule is GPA or test score or top 10%.  So, they can't require the test score, but in some cases a higher test score could make up for not having the GPA or class rank.

Meaning, I assume (related to the OP) that you could choose not to send the test score at all.

The reason for those rules is so that athletic departments don't hand out "merit scholarships" or "financial aid" to supplement/replace athletic aid and thus help them recruit, when such aid would not be available to non-athlete students.  I hope the NCAA didn't change that permanently.

@nycdad posted:

That was an exception I believe. It's in the current rules. I just went through this with my 2022, who is borderline 3.5 at a difficult academic HS and not yet a 1270. It was an issue.

You are correct, it’s in the current NCAA manual that was put out in August of 2020.  This is interesting as a lot of folks, including me, misinterpreted the July 2020 legislative statement by the NCAA concerning this issue.  I am confused as to what this “new legislation”actually did.  If the top 10% or 3.5 or minimum SAT/ACT rules that were previously there are still in place, what changed?  Those meeting these requirements before August 2020 were allowed to stack aid without counting toward the 11.7 so what is in the new rule that made anything different?

Original policy proposal Q&A:

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.c...V_Prop2019-119QA.pdf

NCAA news release from July 2020:

https://www.ncaa.org/about/res...ve-and-waiver-action

Some Press coverage of the rules change:

https://d1baseball.com/feature...on-huge-aid-changes/

https://www.lrt-sports.com/blo...arships-in-the-ncaa/

https://www.theadvocate.com/ba...ab-f308e33e5002.html

Something doesn’t add up.  It would be interesting to hear from someone like Rick at informedathlete.com regarding this issue.

Yes, my 2020 relied on his SAT score to meet the criteria. What we've found here in the Northeast is you have a lot of small private D1s that charge a lot (IMO too much for what they offer academically) but generally give out a good amount of merit aid for not that high test scores or GPA. The coaches at these schools rely on the fact that you will either qualify for need based assistance or meet the NCAAs exception requirement so they can combine.

Based on this NCAA document it appears the change was adopted to exempt both need based aid and merit based aid as long as they are awarded based on institutional common standards with no mention of the previous requirements for specific rank, gpa or scores.  It looks like 15.02.5.4 is the relevant rule change.

I think the distinction here is “non-discretionary” aid.  Meaning, if all students who qualify receive the aid it will no longer count against the 11.7.

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/se...oposalView?id=104685

15.02.5.4 Exempted Institutional Financial Aid. The following institutional financial aid is exempt and is not counted in determining the institution's financial aid limitations: (Revised: 1/10/91, 1/10/92, 4/25/02, 10/31/02 effective 8/1/03, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11, 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17, 7/27/20 effective 8/1/20 August 1, 2020; for institutional merit-based and need-based awards received by a student-athlete on or after August 1, 2020.)

(a) An institutional need-based grant awarded based solely on demonstrated financial need, as determined for all students by the institution’s financial aid office using methodologies that conform to federal, state and institutional guidelines. However, such aid is not exempted for purposes of determining a football or basketball student-athlete's counter status pursuant to Bylaw 15.5.1.1;

(b) A nondiscretionary institutional merit-based award with no relationship to athletics ability awarded based on documented criteria that apply to all students. However, such aid is not exempt for purposes of determining a football or basketball student-athlete’s counter status pursuant to Bylaw 15.5.1.1;

(c) An honorary award for outstanding academic achievement or an established institutional research grant that meets the criteria set forth in Bylaw 15.02.7 (and must be included in determining if the student-athlete's cost of attendance has been met);

(d) A postgraduate scholarship awarded by an institution in accordance with Bylaw 16.1.4.1.1;

(e) Federal government grants awarded based on a student's demonstrated financial need [e.g., Supplemental Educational Opportunities Grant (SEOG)], regardless of whether the institution is responsible for selecting the recipient or determining the amount of aid, or providing matching or supplementary funds for a previously determined recipient;

(f) State government grants awarded based on a student's demonstrated financial need, regardless of whether the institution is responsible for selecting the recipient or determining the amount of aid, or providing matching or supplementary funds for a previously determined recipient, provided the aid is administered in accordance with the federal methodology for determining a student's financial need and has no relationship to athletics ability. However, such aid is not exempt for purposes of determining a football or basketball student-athlete's counter status pursuant to Bylaw 15.5.1.1;

(g) State government merit-based grants, regardless of whether the institution is responsible for selecting the recipient or determining the amount of aid, or providing matching or supplementary funds for a previously determined recipient, provided the aid is awarded consistent with the criteria of Bylaws 15.5.3.2.2.1, 15.5.3.2.2.2 or 15.5.3.2.2.3 and has no relationship to athletics ability. However, such aid is not exempt for purposes of determining a football or basketball student-athlete's counter status pursuant to Bylaw 15.5.1.1; and

(h) Contributions made by the institution and matching payments made by the Department of Veterans Affairs pursuant to the Yellow Ribbon G.I. Education Enhancement Program [see Bylaw 15.2.5.1-(e)].

The section reads a lot more complicated than it was for us. Was pretty basic when we were speaking with coaches over the last few years about 3.5 or 1270 (we don't have a class rank).

@nycdad posted:

The section reads a lot more complicated than it was for us. Was pretty basic when we were speaking with coaches over the last few years about 3.5 or 1270 (we don't have a class rank).

I think it’s simpler than it looks.  Prior to August 2020, any need based aid or academic aid received was counted against the 11.7 unless the student athlete met the 10% or 3.5 or 1270.  After August 2020, that aid does not count toward the 11.7 if the aid is both generally available to the broader student population and the athlete meets the same qualifications as non athlete students who receive the aid.

I think you're complicating this. You asked this question a year or so ago in 2020, and it's the same answer. You need a 3.5/1270/10% to combine aid. Yes you can into the minutia of but a baseball coach is not letting other aid count towards his 11.7.

Whatever happened last year was the exception for the 2021s I believe. Same as not requiring an SAT/ACT score.

@nycdad posted:

I think you're complicating this. You asked this question a year or so ago in 2020, and it's the same answer. You need a 3.5/1270/10% to combine aid. Yes you can into the minutia of but a baseball coach is not letting other aid count towards his 11.7.

Whatever happened last year was the exception for the 2021s I believe. Same as not requiring an SAT/ACT score.

Yes, the answer was the same a year or so ago....then it changed.  I think you are ignoring the fact that the D1 council changed the rule effective in August 2020 for most types of need based and academic aid.  Any coach who doesn’t bother to learn the new rule would be at a disadvantage in securing aid for his players.

What I posted above was added to the NCAA manual for August 2020, it is not specific to any grad class.

Have you had a coach or admissions staff tell you that your 2021 needs the 3.5 or 1270 since August 2020?  Was it in reference to aid that he would qualify for as a general student without those same scores?

Just to be clear, I am not in favor of this change.  I think it potentially removes a recruiting advantage for kids who work hard in the classroom.

Mid Atlantic Dad:With all the craziness of the past year, I have to wonder if SAT scores aren't down in general. I wouldn't be surprised if 1320 isn't in a higher percentile than pre-covid.
Just the fact that he's managed to take the test (during covid) is a positive.

Which is exactly why the colleges we've communicated with have said they aren't using it, UNLESS the kid wants it used.  If those schools are using them surreptitiously, i.e. comparing a kid who's turned them in to a kid who hasn't, then they've been lying.

These tests have always been unfair. Now utter randomness has been thrown in. Costs aside, some kids literally can't take them unless they drive a couple of hours or fly somewhere 5 hours away (in our case) to do it.

(on second thought, costs can't be taken aside)

@22and25 posted:

Yes, the answer was the same a year or so ago....then it changed.  I think you are ignoring the fact that the D1 council changed the rule effective in August 2020 for most types of need based and academic aid.  Any coach who doesn’t bother to learn the new rule would be at a disadvantage in securing aid for his players.

What I posted above was added to the NCAA manual for August 2020, it is not specific to any grad class.

Have you had a coach or admissions staff tell you that your 2021 needs the 3.5 or 1270 since August 2020?  Was it in reference to aid that he would qualify for as a general student without those same scores?

Just to be clear, I am not in favor of this change.  I think it potentially removes a recruiting advantage for kids who work hard in the classroom.

I have a 2020 and 2022. We've had multiple coaches/schools tell us 3.5/1270 for the 2022.

@nycdad posted:

I have a 2020 and 2022. We've had multiple coaches/schools tell us 3.5/1270 for the 2022.

Since the change in August 2020?  Maybe you could send them this info from the NCAA legislative archive. I have highlighted the relevant details.  Your 2022 would definitely fall under the new rule.

note the status as “Adopted Final”

Bylaws amended 15.02.5 ( not an exception but amended)

effective date August 1st, 2020

This states it pretty clearly:

“The following institutional financial aid is exempt and is not counted in determining the institution's financial aid limitations:

(a) An institutional need-based grant awarded based solely on demonstrated financial need, as determined for all students by the institution’s financial aid office using methodologies that conform to federal, state and institutional guidelines.

b) A nondiscretionary institutional merit-based award with no relationship to athletics ability awarded based on documented criteria that apply to all students.

link to ncaa site:  https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/se...oposalView?id=104685