High School Ball vs. Select (summer) ? recruiting?

Welcome to HSBBW,

A good select team that attends strong tournaments which has recruiters who attend would do the trick.

Wow open question. I am a high school coach in indiana. I would say generally travel ball will get you more exposure. Lots and lots of variables. But as a general rule. Travel ball is not played during the college season.

thanks homerun04... I was hoping this would be the case.

I think more recruiting goes on at the select level, but not playing high school ball will be a questionable part of his resume.

I would suggest enjoying where he is at now and playing at his high school. If he can't find a way to enjoy the high school game now, I would question whether he will ever enjoy it at all.

Every ex-major leaguer I've spoken with says that it gets less and less fun after high school, until you reach the majors. And reaching the majors takes a ton of talent and even more luck.

Play for now.

Depending where and which HS you play for makes a difference. IMO you can't beat the HS format for enjoyment of the game. The travel / tourney teams are so competitive you may not have time to improve your game and have some fun. Play HS, find a couple of showcases and be prepared for those showcases. Market yourself to the coaches and they will send someone to see you play.

Cxm, I agree with all three however Blpkfrnks said it best. My son has been a part of AAU and USSSA select ball sence the age of 10 and is now 15. He is a freshmen this year starting for his high school varisty team. He will do both high school and select this year. While select can be a strain on your pocket with all the travel and fees, Select will give him more exposure as they play after the college season and he will be exposed to better talent than most high school teams. He should also enjoy high school ball and play for now.

Agree with what has been said about better exposure with the travel team. However, their should be a very good reason why someone is not playing HS ball. Can't imagine their are too many good reasons though.

The fact that he is not starting or playing the position he wants to play is not a good reason to leave the HS program. Many very talented underclassmen have to wait and pay their dues before they start varsity. I don't think a college coach would look fondly on that type of reason when he asks why he didn't play for his high school team.

fillsfan, your right, there's not a good reason. We had to up-root and move due to job situation. Just so happened it was in the beginning of baseball (Jr. Year), left one team hanging (due to move) and the new school basically had a full squad (V and JV) according to the coach, never even took a look at him (guess there's no such thing as beating someone out now days) maybe next year. Anyway he has hooked up with a good club team for this summer and is working out with the coach. Good thing he likes golf.
thanks for your input, great site.

Tough deal about the in season move. But, the good news is that the bulk of recruiting will occur during the summer following his junior year. If you are hooked up with a good program and have been on a good program, your guy should not face any additional challenges than he would have faced had you not made the move.

If he wants to be seen as a prospect this summer though he might want to forget about golf and focus on getting in/staying in baseball shape. Throwing, hitting fielding weight training etc.

Just because he is not playing in games does not mean he should not be practicing and refining his skills.

Unless of course he is looking to get recruited by the Golf team.

cxm, I would say that is a very good reason. One I never thought of.

I agree with floridafan, he should be practicing as much as possible. Good luck this summer.

High School Ball, at least where we are is nothing more than an extended spring training. Summer ball is when competitive baseball begins. All HS ball in our town is about is politics. Yes I know its everywhere but why bother with it if there are other options. I guess you play hs ball strictly for fun. Play as much select as you can and remember its all about results. good luck

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why bother with it if there are other options

It's the only game in the spring. Playing for the school and the community is special. While it's not a deal stopper a college coach would want to know why a player didn't play. I don't think "politics" and "it isn't good ball" would be good answers.

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I guess you play hs ball strictly for fun.

My son plays to win. I'll bet every poster's kid on this site plays for the same reason.

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Originally posted by downandout:
High School Ball, at least where we are is nothing more than an extended spring training. Summer ball is when competitive baseball begins. All HS ball in our town is about is politics. Yes I know its everywhere but why bother with it if there are other options. I guess you play hs ball strictly for fun. Play as much select as you can and remember its all about results. good luck

This is kind of sad to read. I'm sorry you aren't able to have fun playing baseball in high school. Its a great experience you're missing as you will likely realize after it is too late.

Wow another great topic. I like this site LOL.

Well let me throw my 2 cents in. Well first let me start off by saying during these economic times a lot of states educational systems are facing a budget issue.

In Florida there are a lot of areas that are talking about cutting varsity sports out completely to save money. This may or may not be the case in your areas.

Now this makes me sad to say, but I think travel ball by the time my son reaches high school age will be where most baseball players seeking college scholarships will be recruited from.

Just looking at one travel ball organization Usssa wih serveral other good ones out there. This organization now exceeds the enrollment of Little League Baseball which was the largest organization in the world for baseball. Usssa is now offering more and more showcase tournaments with other organizations trying to follow suit. More and more high school/ college coaches are now starting stellar programs within Usssa and other organizations.

Please be kind after these next comments At last years Elite 24 Usssa World Series in the 14u age bracket. The top 6 teams from that tournament at 14u would wipe the floor with 95% of the high school teams out there.

The 17-18 yr old Chet Lemon Juice Travel team would give some of the best high school programs in the country a run for their money. All of these elite/showcase teams are loaded with pitching, hitting and defense from top to bottom. They dont have any weak spots.

A lot of these elite programs dont just pull kids from their local area. These elite programs fly kids in from all over the country to play for their teams. Here is a sick but true example. A 10u now 11u team pays its head coach 60k a year and the 2 asst coaches 40k a year and flys kids in from all over to play for them every weekend.

Now if this is going on at the youth level what do you think is happening at the high school level of travel ball. So I ask you, if you were a college recruiter and considering the times of the year that these teams play, where would you spend your budget dollars going on recruiting trips.

So IMHO I believe travel baseball is now or soon too become the primary showcase for college programs and recruitment.

I am basing my opinions about HS bball on our situation. Where we are it is nothing more than a popularity contest, based upon what your last name is and whether or not you own an insurance agency in town. Our HS coaches have turned away more better ball players than they have kept, its really sad.
HS Baseball has become immensely popular with websites popping up and more newspaper coverage. Unfortunately at least in my sons school its the same old tired coaches that probably don't even own a computer doing the same old stuff they have always done. What makes it so sad is that every sport in our town except football is discriminated against. They will fax resumes' and try and get the ninth string tight end a college scholarship. But the AD does nothing for any other sport. Its just that old public school BS. In PUBLIC school ALL kids have to be treated the SAME, or else lawsuits and bad publicity.
By and far any player should get on the best select team possible and steer clear of HS ball. Now I'm not saying I like it, many posters love hs ball and it may be wonderful in their town. But personally I'd like to see select take over and run during the hs season. Its too late for my son but I guarantee you if that happens there will be some top players bail out of their hs programs. Its how you get better and how you get to the next level. Again please don't hammer me, this is just my opinion based upon where we live.

It was competitive summer ball and working in the off season that prepared our son for HS ball. I will not hammer you - some HS have some crazy politics - so I tell my kid - get good grades!

Since I live in Flagstaff and am new to the state I would be curious to know where in Arizona you live?

In Florida due to the recession and absence of any State Income Tax (a very good thing) different counties are looking at shortening seasons and reducing teams, mainly at the Freshman and JV level. Not Varsity programs, although they are reducing the schedule. I believe this is a temporary event however.

Travel/summer ball will continue to be the primary stepping stone to the next level.

And "The Juice" can take on many a Florida JUCO and give them a run.

quote:

High School Ball, at least where we are is nothing more than an extended spring training. Summer ball is when competitive baseball begins. All HS ball in our town is about is politics. Yes I know its everywhere but why bother with it if there are other options. I guess you play hs ball strictly for fun. Play as much select as you can and remember its all about results. good luck

Wow....I'd love for you to PM me and let me know who you are and your son's school. Pretty bitter comments....I'd love to hear you elaborate.

OCB-- I agree with you that these elite 14U teams are very good. What bothers me (a little) is the flying in of kids or just picking them up to play in a tournament--not really a TEAM--there coaches are more like general managers, but it is what it is. My sons team is a group that live in a 25 mile radius of each other and train together all year and are coached by the coaches on the team. We may not have the lineups of some of these teams but we have competied with the best.Our kids our fundamentaly sound, our pitchers are very good and know how to pitch. Playing competion like we saw at the WWBC made my son work that much harder (fastball went from 74 to 81 over winter -lot of core training really made a difference in my opinion). I think (and I am a novice) that both high school and summer ball our important along with a high GPA and honors classes if possible, to get a scholarship.

RJM .....practice to win, play for fun. Wins and losses only matter to coaches. IMO Individual accomplishment and team wins should be separated.

I hope I didn't bash the original poster. My comment was that "it was a sad situation". There are politics in HS sports, and there are politics in the workplace, and ther are politics all over our lives. You have to play above these things with integrity.

My problem with these travel/select programs being described is that money becomes the big factor. We have players that can barely afford to pay the small amounts of money necessary to play at our high school. They will never afford the luxory of playing for a top travel or select team.

I believe that kids should not be giving up their childhood by focusing so heavily on a sport that they have such a miniscule chance of making a living off of. Flying 10-12 year-olds around the country only benefits the parents bragging rights. Overuse injuries, burn-out, and lack of academic success are much more likely than landing a career as a baseball player.

I've watched the "all-baseball" kids that practice baseball 2-3 hours per day starting at age 5 and star at little league go on to become good HS players. But there are many more well-rounded kids that have played other sports, and excelled in academics and other parts of life that are passing these "all-baseball" kids as high school baseball players.

So, what is the value to the kid (not the parent) of this baseball overload? Sure, they may have fun, but I think most will look back and realize how many things they missed out on.

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Originally posted by Blprkfrnks:
My problem with these travel/select programs being described is that money becomes the big factor. We have players that can barely afford to pay the small amounts of money necessary to play at our high school. They will never afford the luxory of playing for a top travel or select team.

A lot of these very elite travel programs that are well funded will pick up the tab for kids that have elite talent. They pay for trips to Cooperstown, travel and even parents hotel rooms.

Everytime I see a topic that is like this...
High School Ball vs. Select (summer)
I cringe!

Why do they need to compete against each other? Both are GREAT! Sure they are different, but both are GREAT and both are very IMPORTANT!

Regarding money...

Being identified as having talent is what counts. It doesn't make any difference how that happens but once it does happen... Word travels fast in baseball circles. No one ever asks about how much money anyone paid. Baseball people will want to see that player. Baseball teams will want that player.

I think most people know what the biggest travel type baseball events are. They are the ones with the best teams and the best players (for the most part). Those events draw the college recruiters and MLB scouts. In those events a player can go unseen by some, yet everyone ends up knowing about that player. Word travels fast!

At those events you will see many players performing that didn't pay a dime to play. The results from these type events can not be debated. The number of players drafted or going to top DI programs can't be denied.

So does this mean that only rich kids are going to professional or college baseball? That just isn't true! Yes, there are players that come from families who can afford this stuff. And there are players coming from families who can't afford to pay. There are plenty of people involved that will help these kids who can't afford things. The job is to identify them ahead of time. Once they are identified the opportunity will be there. People will create ways to help those who have enough talent and need help.

I have never known a player that was not taken care of who wanted to play but could not afford to play. Many times we run into a situation where the player is very talented but "We just can not afford to do this. We simply dont have the money to do it." In these situations and they do happen a couple of times a year we step up and take care of the kid. We are not the only program that does this there are many that do this.

PG is 100% correct. HS baseball and Select / Showcase - whatever you want to call it do not have to conflict or be in competition with one another. They are played at different times of the year. They both are great and they both are thriving , at least around these parts.

In our region there can be no "select" ball during the HS baseball season, thus we have no problem with a conflict

I see HS baseball as part of the social fibre of the town where the HS is located---there is also nothing like being a varsity athlete in your HS--isnt that what varsity jackets are for---not too many of them are given out---they make you special

When the HS season ends it is "select" ball time !!

Incidently where do these folks think their kid will play during the HS season because there are very few if any "select" programs in operation during the HS season

One other thing if the boy does not play HS ball the first question out of scout or college coaches mouth will be " Why didn't he play HS ball?"

DD


where are you located on the East Coast that you watched HS baseball a month ago?

TR ...I know your old school, like me, but I'm starting to get a lot of very good players not playing HS ball. When i do get a assignment to follow up on one of those kids they tell me there is no time for improvement for the summer season. They continue to work out April and May to be ready for the summer / showcase seasons. I don't know if this is a good thing, but I know they are missing out on a great HS experience. Time management seems to be the biggest roadblock to getting to the college level. Notice I didn't say Pro level. I have seen 100's of kids come up short no matter what road they take.

TR the HS season is about 6 weeks into the regular season here in NC. Feb 15 was the start for practice with games starting about 10 days later.

I do not know of a single hs player around here that skips hs baseball and waits for the summer season. HS baseball is a pretty big deal to the kids in our state as I am sure in other areas as well. There can be no other participation during the HS season and showcase doesnt get started until after the season ends.

I am not disputing the fact that there are kids in other areas that are skipping HS baseball. I am just glad its not going on around here. I would think college coaches would have serious questions about a kid that chose not to play for his school and took every opportunity to compete.

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Originally posted by OCB:
Now this makes me sad to say, but I think travel ball by the time my son reaches high school age will be where most baseball players seeking college scholarships will be recruited from.

It's already happened. The college coaches are busy coaching in the spring. If they get to a high school game it's only going to be a local game that doesn't conflict with their job. There may only be one or two players worth seeing at the game. The coaches are at the showcases in the summer and the fall when coaches have far more time. They can see hundreds of kids. Any high school player who's not an absolute stud who's waiting to be seen at a high school game is going to have a long wait.

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Usssa is now offering more and more showcase tournaments with other organizations trying to follow suit. More and more high school/ college coaches are now starting stellar programs within Usssa and other organizations.

With a son heading towards recruiting age I've never heard of any USSSA event being one he should attend. USSSA is big in our area. This doesn't mean there isn't good ball at some USSSA events. There are just better places for coaches to look. PG, Head First, Impact, TPX, College Select, Select Fest along with conference oriented showcases one of the local academies operate are just some of the options.

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At last years Elite 24 Usssa World Series in the 14u age bracket. The top 6 teams from that tournament at 14u would wipe the floor with 95% of the high school teams out there.

I think you're a little crazed, err, overenthusiastic on this one. There are high school teams the 14U teams could beat, but not a good one. Seventeen and Eighteen year olds are too physically and emotionally maturity for most fourteen year olds. I'd say top end 16U teams could beat many high schools except those with the stud 18U pitchers.

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The 17-18 yr old Chet Lemon Juice Travel team would give some of the best high school programs in the country a run for their money.

You can't compare an 18U team that can recruit from anywhere with a high school team restricted by district boundaries. I don't doubt my son's travel team could beat his high school team. Most of his high school team couldn't make his travel team.

quote:

A lot of these elite programs dont just pull kids from their local area. These elite programs fly kids in from all over the country to play for their teams. Here is a sick but true example. A 10u now 11u team pays its head coach 60k a year and the 2 asst coaches 40k a year and flys kids in from all over to play for them every weekend.

This isn't baseball. This is professional coach's ego stroking. How good does a coach have to be if he can pay to fly in the best talent available. How can "the team" feel like they won anything? They're not a team. What about the players who are thrown under the bus by the coach for the flown in studs? The winning coach should win free psychiatric counseling. After all, it's about him, not the team.

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Now if this is going on at the youth level what do you think is happening at the high school level of travel ball. So I ask you, if you were a college recruiter and considering the times of the year that these teams play, where would you spend your budget dollars going on recruiting trips.

No one is asking. It's already happened.

My son enjoys both his summer team and his high school team. (so do I)

I do not know of one showcase team , high school aged that plays during the hs season. I do not know of one high school aged tourney that is played during the hs season.

I do not see this as being a relevent discussion to be honest with you. Its two different times of the year , two different baseball situations.

Amen to that Coach May !!!

DiamondDevil,

How did Brooks Hall throw in that game. Younginer has been up to 97 more than once this spring. Our guy saw him a couple weeks ago topping at 97 and with a very good breaking ball.

Scouts do attend high school games like that in large numbers. Of course, both those kids made a big name for themself in the summer and fall. Both are ranked very high (by us). Those types do draw the scouts to the high school games.

Are you a player or coach or parent with the Diamond Devils? That is quite a program there.

Ozone,

Where are thse kids who aren't playing HS baseball? The only top players I've ever seen who have not played high school baseball have been ineligible or kicked off the high school team. Even at that it is only a handful of kids. Where are these "very good" players at? What are they doing during the high school season? There is no way that that can work to their advantage... Is there?

In my son's baseball world at this stage of his life, we look at high school baseball as the best place to get day in and day out practice, plus games mixed in when the weather doesn't wash them away. As good as travel/select ball is in the summer time, it still doesn't allow enough practice time in comparison to the prep time that is given in high school. Instead, travel ball teams seem to have the idea that it is how many games you play and not how much practice you get to prepare yourself for those games. Overall, around this area the good traveling teams give you more exposure than the high school teams.... unless your kid is some super star that every one has heard about.

PG ...here in NYC we have over 300 public and private HS. That's not counting the surrounding area. About 30 or so don't even have a baseball program. The kids can get a variance to play at other schools but that has a whole set of other problems. Many are academically ineligible and some are done with school by junior year. There are many year round baseball programs where they can work out until the summer seasons start. In most cases it's not the kids fault and it's a sad situation. Sometimes when I come across a good kid with some talent who is in a bad situation, I can get him into a private school as a hardship. When you say top players...yes they will find a HS team to play on. My concern is getting them to stay in school and playing college ball somewhere.

At our school, HS coach went on a rant about select ball. It does not compete with HS ball, but takes the "good" players away from his HS Legion team. And that means so-so players to along with his son.

In the area we live in, money is an issue for playing travel/select baseball. There might be one or two great players that fall in to the category of being covered financially to play, but the rest must foot the bill. The problem isn't usually the team fees involved, but the cost in time and money to travel. Many parents have several kids and both are working to provide for the family. Tournaments are a minimum of 3 hour away from our area. So factoring that in, HS baseball is a great deal, as is the summer baseball program.

Another poster made a great point about the amount of practice time dedicated to HS baseball. Skipping HS ball to "get ready for Summerball" seems like a tough thing to do. Baseball is a team sport, and I don't see how you can better prepare for the summer than by practicing with a team 6 days a week and getting in 20-30 games as well. The fields are usually tied up this time of year, so are you just hitting in a cage and throwing in a bullpen if you don't practice with a team?

No doubt about the summer and fall being place you are typically recruited, but the HS season should supplement that, not be replaeced by it.