High School Baseball Politics

I grew up in an era of difficult coaches. In your face and being demeaned was a normal coaching motivational tactic. While the football and basketball coaching was solid, the baseball coach was a moron. College coaches were intense in that day too. When I was placed with a "years behind the times" manager in my first job my only response to others was "I can handle it." Sports gave me this. It was an easier life than my father. He graduated from high school in 1942 and signed up to fight a war.

 

What ever happened to adversity and learning to adjust? it pays off when hitting the real world. In the big picture America is now raising the cupcake generation. Kids hit the real world with very little if not any at all coping skills. Parents now call bosses when their little cupcake is being "picked on," err told they aren't doing a good job.

I get the feeling the parents think that their kids should not be challenged, called out or asked to work hard by someone else.  What they are failing to understand is that by doing this they are giving their kids a "sense of entitlement", which is very sad.  Parents seem to be too caught up in being their kids friends instead of their parents.  It's an OMG moment if they let the kid work something out for themselves

Amen Lefthook.  What I have found to be interesting/funny is that parent's talk about wanting you to be honest and then as soon as you give them an honest opinion about their son they do not know how to handle it and make excuses.  I had a player interested in a specific school.  The coach at the college is legendary for being extremely tough on the players both physically and mentally.  This particular player is mentally week and is one of those players that if you jump on him to hard will fold.  I told the parent and the player that although I felt he had the tools to play at that college I did not think the kid would be a good fit at that college because he was not mentally tough enough to play for that coach.  The parent threw a huge fit and completely disagreed with me.  A year later the player, after going to that college, transferred and when I saw the parent he told me, "Coach I have to apologize to you.  I should have listened to you about that college.  You were 100% correct."  To often parents instead of listening to our opinions want to protect thier children instead of pushing them.

I'm really starting to worry about how long I can hang with HSBW. I notice that many of the old-timers are just refusing to jump into these seemingly-endless whining threads.

 

Was it this way always?? God, I hope not. Tell me it's something in the water, please!

 

 ^^^^

It geets better after the HS season is over.  Every spring there is an influx of post like this, and to be honest most of us are dealing with this stuff on a daily basis at the field already. 

 

Hang around the HSBBWeb, its one of the best and most informative sites out there. 

There are two types of coaches.

#1 Motivated to help players

#2 Motivated to help themself

 

Just because they are a #1 doesn't make them a good coach, but they are certainly easier to endure.

 

Just because they are a #2 doesn't make them a bad coach, far more likely to leave a bad taste.

 

Don't confuse politics with underlying motivation and your life will be far less complicated as a parent.

 

School baseball is alot like accepting a government job.

 

Travel ball is working in the private sector.

 

Both have drawbacks & benefits, enjoy each for what it is.

What kind of idiot would stick and stay in with an idiot as a coach?  The same idiot that would stick and stay with an idiot as a boss.  Coaches don't have loyalty to schools, they will take the next great job.  Kids don't need to have loyalty to coaches for the same reason. Schools aren't loyal to coaches because he has some losing seasons and he is out of a job.  Companies don't have loyalty to their employees and employeeds don't have loyalty to companies. Loyalty is a term people in power like to throw out there to try and keep their power.  If you are truly wanting to teach you child a real lesson; teach them that lesson. To deny is to lie.

Wow.  Just... wow.

So, let's assume the OP is the average American who can't necessarily afford to send his kids to private school.  So, you're saying he's an idiot if he stays with the idiot coach.  So, then he is an idiot if he doesn't pick up and move his whole family to another school district so his son with the idiot coach can play for a different coach.  Forget things like, oh I don't know..., friends, or maybe academics or neighborhoods or other activities or siblings and their lives or your wife and her life...  the important thing is to get away from the idiot baseball coach..  brilliant.

 

And please tell me more about the "real lessons" you are teaching your children... the whole "teach your child that loyalty is a term people in power like to throw out there" and coaches and bosses and teachers and companies never have loyalty so you shouldn't show any back  ... ya got any more gems for us parents?  Can't wait to hear.

 

 

Thanks for the info. 

 

I'll be sure to cut off all communication I continue to have with any former coaches, some of whom have visited me in the hospital, written letters of recommendation for me, consider me a dear friend.

 

I'll be sure to cut off all communication I continue to have with any former teammates, all of whom I've sweated, screamed, bled, cried, laughed with...often simultaneously.

 

I'll be sure to cut off all communication I continue to have with any former classmates, some of whom I've pulled all-nighters with, stressing, cramming, communicating, using as a resource and a source of guidance.

 

I'll be sure to cut off all communication I continue to have with any former teachers, some of whom taught me life lessons that are immeasurable and whom I consider friends to this day.

 

I'll be sure to cut off all communication I continue to have with any former professors, some of whom inspired me and drove me to push myself to limits I did not know I was capable of reaching intellectually.

 

I'll be sure to cut off all communication I continue to have with any former employers, some of whom I remain close with today- all of whom taught me valuable lessons about the business world.

 

Since there's no loyalty in the world, I must've be an idiot for crying when I saw my senior teammates crying after a walk-off loss in the 11th inning of an NCAA regional game as a sophomore. I must've been an idiot when I asked all the aforementioned people for letters of recommendation for grad school, and for employment. I must've been an idiot when I accepted my current job, knowing good and well that my boss really doesn't care at all about me.

 

Count me then, OA5II, as one of the idiots in the world. I pride myself on loyalty, and gravitate to those that reciprocate it. I'm damn proud of it, too.

Where did this come from?????  If you are telling the OP that it's ok to bail and run just because he feel's his kids chacnes of being seen by pro scouts has been "lessened"  you are off your rocker.  I dare to even say that you have zero sense of what LOYALTY really is

 

Great post JH

OA5II- I am truly hoping your writing is of the sarcasm sort and not your true feelings towards the subject.

left,

 

of course you don't bail in the middle of anything.  You must honor your commitment that you made for that season. Take the good and the bad.  If you are going into high school ball looking for a scholarship or pro scouts to see you; then you sound like a player and parent that probably isn't worth the headache.  A freshman should have the goal of working to earn a spot on the varsity.  College and pros should not be on their mind. Fine to have as a long term goal but not for at least 3 years.

But the player and his family owe the team and school no loyalty. The school and team will not show him loyalty.  If he is the starter one year and the next year a new player moves in that is better; is the coach going to show the older player loyalty and play him instead?  Of course not.  No one would expect him to. 

Coaches bail on players and teams all the time to go to greener grass; but players and families are expected to stay and put up with a coach and stupidity for the sake of being loyal?  No thanks. 

That is the real world.  Real world is your company will let you go in a heart beat if they can get someone to do your job at a cheaper rate and to save a dime.  There is a reason people under 40 realize that you don't work for the same company your entire adult life.  That isn't reality.  You are constantly having to look out for yourself because no one else will do it for you.  This lesson begins with teams and coaches. 

Why is loyalty only a 1 way street?  Why is it ok for coaches to look out for their families with another job and opportunity but is a weak-minded kid, over protective parent, or a kid that isn't talented enough if they do the exact same thing as coaches? Hypocrisy at it's finest.

Loyalty shouldn't be a one way street, but sometimes it is.  As it realtes to this thread, the OP is talking about a FRESHMAN player, being bumped up and used on JV.  This is exaclty where the OP shold be telling his son to keep working hard, that by doing so he may earn more innings.  Loyalty is earned, not giving out freely.  The OP's kid hasn't been there long enough to give or receive it, but he can earn it by putting in his time and bussting is arse!  The OP even states that it is a winning program...I am sure there is a lot of two way loyalty present between the players and the HC, haven't seen very many winning programs that don't have it.  If the kid is good he shouldn't have to worry about another player taking his spot.  If the coach replaces him with a better "greener grass", maybe it should serve notice to the kid that got replaced that he needs to work a little harder.

 

your reference to what people under 40 are realizing makes me think that you may be one as well.....the group that is maturing and growing and have a certain sense of entitlement, what we the over 40 crowd seem to refer to as the "entitlement generation". 

I agree with everything you said about her son's team.  The player has earned the coaches' loyalties and the coaches have earned the players loyalty.  What he should be demanded of is commitment.  If the coaches are there every day doing their job; then you as a player are required to do the same.  You don't look to leave until after season is over and your commitment is over.
That is the same thing we call the over 40 crowd.  Look at the mess they have given us and created. They have done their best to destroy integrity, loyalty, commitment, honor and family.  Unfortunatly, my generation is picking up where they have left off.I fear for my children's generation.

Update!!!! Over the summer my son played this coach team and we were able to talk.  I told him how I felt and he apologized and said that the only reason he didn't give my son the play time was because they wanted to concentrate more on the players that were going to tryout for varsity next year so they could build on their experience.  .  He thinks my son is very talented and didn't want the freshman coach to over use him so he bumped him up.   I didn't think that this might be the case and based my first assumption on what other parents told me about the politics they are experiencing at their schools.  I judged this coach unfairly and jumped to a conclusion when I should have talked to him first.  I have made a mistake and will admit, I was wrong!!!

What a bizarre concept ..... communication. Don't you wish your son had talked with the coach before feelings escalated? At least you're capable of admitting fault.

 

My experience with two kids playing multiple high school sports is the parents typically crying politics have kids with marginal talent. They can't discern politics from a coach preferring other talent. In the end you found out it wasn't politics. And your son isn't considered marginal talent.

Well, there's talking the talk and walking the walk.  Let us know how this year turns out.

DCBaseball,

 

Thanks for the update, and sharing your experience.  You and your son learned something that you probably will never forget.  I'm very happy for you.  Good luck this year!

 

PS...It was interesting to revisit this thread and reread these posts knowing the eventual outcome.

my son a senior has always been screwed by hs coach. cut junior year, worked hard in summer, fastball up to 87mph and he still might get cut this spring on a loosing program, but attended 1 showcase and bam got a college commitment to pitch never playing varsity hs baseball, keeping working if you put up numbers like that you will play in college, smart college recruiters know the crap that goes on in hs. they need talent at the college level to win and keep their jobs.

Although everything you say may be 100% true, your post comes off as bitter.  If this bitterness over the first slight your son encountered rubbed off on your son, the coach may have decided you and your son weren't worth the trouble.

 

Most all of our sons were slighted at some time.  How you handle it will go a long way to teaching your son how to act when it happens.  My son was slighted in LL, and I always told him to work so hard and become so good that they had no choice but to take you on the team.  Guess what?  He did just that.  Making excuses and becoming bitter will just snowball and soon people don't want to be around you.  Too much trouble. 

I'd be worried about a college program that offers a kid at a showcase simply because he threw 87. I would also worry about what my kid is doing to cause him to be cut if he is good enough to play in college. Maybe all the coach's fault, but I'd be willing to bet there's slightly more to the story.

I have seen HS tryouts that had as many as 100 kids trying out for Varsity.  With numbers like that, there are always a few that don't make the team that could easily start at any other school.  Some HSs are just loaded with talent and even kids that throw mid 80s don't find a spot on the roster. 

 

So its not always the coaches fault, and its not always a lack of talent for the player that was cut. 

We don't know what level he is talking about.

If son is happy w college comm. he doesn't need to worry about playing baseball, just enjoy Sr. yr., right dad ?   Why do u care if he plays since u said its a loosing program. Has to be some reason he was cut Jr. Yr.  

Ps-just because u make it on a college roster doesn't mean you will play a lot. For many it works out, many others see very little playing time. It's a whole diff experience. Hope son goes in w a good attitude.

This is a pretty good perspective, I think. And it definitely can explain a lot about how some guys make decisions.

 

I think there may be a #3/hybrid type - a guy who works hard to do what help players and the program, knowing that player and program success help himself as well. If that make sense. 

 

My thought is that I definitely have an ego and want to help myself and provide for my family, don't misunderstand, but overall I want to help the kids in the program and the program as a whole achieve big things. Whatever those big things are. That's the motivator. Selfishly, the better the kids do the better the program does  and the better I do as an individual (theoretically), and that leads to other opportunities to provide for my family. I don't necessarily mean leaving where I am, but other coaching opportunities that could be beneficial.

Regardless of the level, to me 87 isn't a magic number to forgo looking a little deeper into the kid's character, academics, how he really pitches outside of a showcase environment, whatever before offering. 96 mph? Offer away! Maybe they did that, I don't know. But it didn't sound like it the way it was written.

onthefly - Don't worry about ironhorse - do what you think is right. ironhorse bashes any parent that might question high school coaching - he is protecting his territory.

I coached at two big time state championship programs.  Basically never even had varsity tryouts.  By then people knew.  Would have 100+ kids freshman year though.  Still find it really really hard to believe any hs out there cuts kids who throw 87.  There is definitely more to the story.  And if there truly is nothing else to the story that coach should be fired immediately.   Look at the FB velocities posted on perfect game website.  While there are more and more 90mph guys all the time they are still not exactly a dime a dozen.  87 is real damn fast for high school.

My goal was not to brag on my son and make him sound great and disrespected. he was only throwing in the high 70's fall junior year had some mechanical flaws, but not the worst on the team, got injury worked hard to correct everything.Just trying to convey to players not to give up and keep working despite peoples opinions sometimes a program can have so many players trying out they may not be noticed and slip through some cracks, that's what happened in this case. water under the bridge to me not holding any bitterness to anybody.

What's the equation again... Dad minus 7? 

Definitely accurate. Never, ever question a coach. They are never wrong. Ever.

 

Bright spot is I now have a board stalker, so that's cool.

I think ironhorse is right that in most circumstances coaching motivation is in this order: 1. Players succeed 2 Team succeeds 3. Coach succeeds. 

 

In the end the coach can usually advance in two ways, network and Wins.

 

I would caveat it in HS.  If most of the country is like my area the stipend for the HS baseball coach is in the $2k to $4k range.  So if you have a guy that is a teacher and isn't going anywhere or is otherwise locked into the gig, it would open more possibility to the above equation breaking down to some degree.

 

If you have a coach locked into the spot then his motivations might be influenced by stuff like not having to deal with wiseacre kids and parents.  You would like to think...and I do... that winning being more fun than losing any real talented players would get the benefit of the doubt ...unless they are a true schmuck. 

 

in this case coach has a regular job and by either a lack of knowledge or interest does not develop any of the lower level or fringe players as freshman either you are good at 14 or never play. truly only. about 9 or 10 kids every see any action from year to year. so if your not in that group at a young age you must get outside help to improve and possibly move up which almost never happens at this school. my son had some very correctable flaws according to the academy i took him to but was never worked with by the coach. I thought freshman level an jv to an extent, was still a point were development should occur but I was wrong.

OTF - The locked in coach does open up a bunch of scenario's. 

 

If in fact the coach is not interested in or is not capable of player development then it isn't entirely surprising it evolves into a program where players are typed early and unless something changes significantly then they stay in the box they started out at.

 

That is certainly less than ideal for all involved.  I would expect that this is a mediocre scenario that is on a treadmill to nowhere unless the feeder system is over the top and pumping in top talent that is pretty polished early. 

 

Problem is if you are as good as you get at 14 you will get beat a lot by guys that are getting better every year until 18.

 

 

In my humble opinion I don't believe the kids are the problem. Kids are resilient they can take anything. When I left for Marine Corp boot camp I remember my father told me one thing, make sure you finish what you've started. I knew then I could not let him down although inside I was scared shitless. The problem with some coaches they put too much emphasize on being fair and politically correct. And I've seen kids who make teams only because of what their parents do for the school or team. I'll bet the generation that fought ww2 probably thought the same things about their kids generation.  Maybe, though that was the better generation.

No way is it possible to "develop" a kid during the HS season.  We just started, with the first game in 2 weeks.  Then average 3 games per week thru May.  Add in the coach/player ratio and it just isn't happening.  The better players tend to work outside of the program. 

 

 

       
       
In wisconsin summer baseball we have a total season of 2 months.  It is hard but we have to try.

yeah but you can take a few minutes of video with some comments at practice things to work on in the off season that never happened with good players and the bottom kids, now our varsity is going to be passed by the others in our conference. Its a vicious circle for the kids because they get all the playing time as freshman they don't do any extra work to be on top. they are secure in their position on the team. to be a great team you need contributions from unlikely kids who are waiting in the wings and prepared to fill a role. its happens every year with this team 1 d1 prospect, maybe 2 d2 and nothing after that, finish 4th or 5th in the conference  1 or 2 games under 500.

IMO this is the norm for all of HS sports, not just baseball.  Speaking for what I see at a large suburban HS (about 900 kids per class).  

 

The funnel is very large at the frosh level.  We have two teams in most sports so when it comes to baseball about 30 kids make the team.  They are usually split, 12 on the A team and 18 on the B team.  On the A team the same 8 players get most of the field time.  The rest of the players are either pitchers or backup players that don't see much field time.  Play is a little more distributed across the B team as they are trying to give these kids game time to develop.  

As the funnel narrows to the Soph level we carry 18 players but the same 9 or 10 players get all the field time.  We carry a number of POs who get to pitch every few days but at least 1/3 of not more of the team gets very little playing time.  

 

As the funnel drains into Varsity maybe half of the 18 players will actually make the team and then if your not a starter the chances of getting on the field is fairly slim.  You are fighting for mop up time at that point.  

 

Our Soph basketball program works the same way.  The team carries 18 players.  Only 8 players actually got any significant playing time. The others were scrapping hoping for the Trillion (http://tinyurl.com/nabomuu).  

 

Overall this is the nature of sports.  The starters get all the playing time.  

 

When it comes to HS I don't think many schools are different.  There is not a lot of time for player development on the coaches part.  Its not that they don't want to develop players, its that their time is very limited.  Break it down.  At the V level there are about 18 kids on a team.  Practices are about 2 hours so a coach has 7 minutes per player at practice.  If you have 3 games a week you probably have 3 days of practices.  That means that the coach can spend 21 minutes per player per week working with them.  Contrast that to a private coach who can spend as much time as you want with your player (provided you pay for it).  Of course they can break down and focus on stuff to help a kid improve.

Many who posted are correct there is always a large turnout for the frosh tryouts and many will have 2 teams. One of the local high schools near us had 35 players on their freshman team last year. Everyone baseball parent who cares enough would like to say "hey my son plays HS baseball" even if it only lasts for that one season. You hear so many travel organizations say they are all about development and are "helping the kids get to the next level" and that's HS baseball!  We all want them to have that experience, and yes some will hardly see much playing time.  My 2017 attends a school with 3000 students and at tryouts Monday for his Sophomore team there were only 20 players. I guess some just knew, even though they kept 16 kids. The Varsity had just 30 and this comes after they won their 1st 4A regional championship last year.