High School JV or Varsity??

The coach will decide and you will enjoy.

Back when my oldest son was a freshman our school fielded 3 teams. A freshman team, JV, and Varsity.

As a rule back then 1 freshman could make the varsity team. A few players believed that they had what it takes to play varsity, my son being one of them. It eventually came down to 2 players, my son (5'11 and 160) and another player that was 6'4 and 210) both players could hit well although the other player could really drive the ball when he connected!
Anyway, it was determined that my son would stay down and play with the freshman, and would also get opportunities to play JV. He ended up playing 3 games a week, up to the max allowed and hit .650 for the season. The other player rode the bench and got minimal playing time.
I was very happy that my son stayed down and was able to distinguish himself as a major contributor.
At the end of the season he was brought up to varsity for post season.

PS Other player was ranked a 10 by PG, but became so frustrated with his experience on varsity that he quit and went to football, currently playing D1 as an offensive lineman. He would have been drafted out of HS easy if he had stayed with the game.

Welcome!

In the long run it won't matter. The work he puts in outside of games, in the summer and in the off season will have a greater impact on future success. JMHO.

Welcome to HSBBW,

You have some good advice already and everything I say here doesn't matter because the coach will decide and you will have to live with his decision...

My son played varsity as a freshman as they needed a LHP to make a run at a state championship. He was the first freshman to play varsity baseball in his coach's 10+ year tenure. He plays at a 5A-I school in Arizona with 3000+ students. We had a great season and many fond memories. He got the start in the state semi-final game and left with a lead in the 7th (which we later blew)...

Son only pitched about 45 innings (although on the big stage) while all his buddies were jacking HR's on the freshman field (the little stage). Son got one at bat the entire season.

My son is clearly a Pitcher Only (PO) at the college level. By playing varsity as a freshman, he was 'noticed' early, which led to a lot of college interest. It's worked out well for him. He's verbally committed to a PAC-10 or 12 or 16 program (see other thread for exact count).

So ask yourself, what is your son going to be when he grows up? A pitcher? A legit two way player? A position player only? If opportunity knocks, what is best for him? Very limited exposure as a freshman pitcher or development at JV?

Our HS coach asked my opinion about the freshman varsity thing. We had several discussions before tryouts. It was his decision, but I could've veto'd and had him down at freshman. It depends upon the coach, situation, talent level, players ahead of your son, competition level at school. etc

Think it through and if you are asked for your opinion, know what your answer will be.

There are two schools of thought here.

1) you play on the highest level you possibly can even if it might mean sitting on the bench and be a role player. The fact that you will be around better caliber players and getting a higher level type of practice.

2) you stay down and play everyday and only sit on the bench when you need a break (which should be never since it's high school and he's a teenager).

Both ways have and will work but either one is not a surefire method to be successful. Look at the level of the varsity team and if they are legit then I say stress the importance of being in a high level environment. Like JMoff said it's a way to get seen sooner because I have yet to see a college or pro scout at a JV game.

Ultimately though it is going to be the coaches decision so be ready to make the most of it. If he pulls him up and sits him on the bench you need to figure out how to help sell it to your son. The ideal thing would be for the coach to sit your son down and explain what his role would be, why he's deciciding that and all that. It will do no good to gripe and complain about the coach to your son or to the coach himself. If it's not what you want then do your best to make it a good situation.

CH10Dad,

Welcome to hsbbweb. At least from the start of your son's HS baseball career, he has some similarities or maybe same circumstances as my son. He made varsity primarily as a pitcher until they found out he could hit some which opened some doors going to his sophomore year. I agree with coach2709 first school of thought but obviously it all depends on each and every player's situation. Time flies fast so enjoy every minute of it. Coming now to his Senior year, I plan on not missing any inning this year.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
HERE IS A THREAD I POSTED IN THE PAST BUT CANNOT FIND IT...

Also as a parent of a player who played Varsity as a Freshman


Good

Gain mental toughness through trial by fire and those stretches when he's not playing. As a parent, you need to keep everything positive because the transition from being an everyday player in club ball to being a spot starter takes a big adjustment. It's better to learn this early because if they will progress to the next level ( as a freshman in College or a Rookie in minor league), they have an idea already of how it's like and adjust accordingly.

Learning to be a TEAM player ( sacrificing personal gain for team gain)
Learning the game more from the other side ( the game of life )
Learning to COMPETE for a spot
Better competition, more focused coaching which ends up as better training
Enjoying the long bus rides.

Bad

Risk of losing his self esteem during those stretches on the bench or when things does not go your way.
Mixed emotions as a parent, just feeling for your son during these times and how to keep everything into perspective and that hopefully he will be given his chance. He was primarily a pitcher last season and pitched 14 innings (mostly relief vs some quality teams although had a chance to start 2 games) but the highlight of his Freshman season may have been when he started 3b against the eventual 5A champs Corona Del Sol during the 2009 5AI playoffs and made 2 assists. Everyone will have different experiences but being ready at anytime when your name is called by the coach will earn you some stripes.

The bottomline is a player that's placed in Varsity as a freshman has some talent to contribute right away. Now whether big or small depends on the opportunities that's given to him and making the most out of every opportunity. A freshman is probably one of the most hardworking guy in the team because he willl need to prove he belongs and hang out with the big boys. Once he has proven that then comes respect which is very satisfying.

Being the ball/bag boy and finding those foul balls.

Ugly

If you were not given any opportunity at all in which maybe you need to be in JV to get some reps in. Makes you wonder why you were picked in the first place

Just my 2 cents.

There are pluses and minuses to both. Like others have said, ultimately it will be the coaches decision and there is not much you can do about it.

My son got the opportunity to pitch at the varsity level in a 5A school his freshman year. He also was given the opportunity to play in the field on the JV team when he wasn't pitching. He kind of had the best of both worlds. Not every coach will do that though. I felt he needed the challenge of pitching varsity and he did well. Pitched complete games against the two teams who would eventually play for the state championship. Beat one and lost to the other 5-2. Also lost a complete game 1-0 to the #6 ranked team in the state. We look back on those days (he is a senior this year) with fond memories recalling the games he pitched. However, from time to time, he mentions that he would've liked to have played more, pitched particularly, with his peers. He would have been dominant at the JV or freshman level and in a lot of ways he missed out on that, as well as playing with his peers.

I don't think he would trade the opportunity to have pitched varsity as a freshman, but there is still a little of him that misses something that he didn't get to do. Like I said, there are pluses and minuses to both. The coach will decide for him, so just sit back and enjoy the ride. It really will be over before you know it.

My son was also "given the opportunity to play JV when not pitching".

In AZ, varsity & JV play at the same time in opposite locations, so the varsity is @rival while the JV is playing rival at home.

Son proved he could pitch and suddenly he was "needed" in the bullpen every day. There was one week where he started the first game of the week and was allowed to go down and play JV for exactly two games. He was only allowed to DH since he had already thrown and they didn't want him getting hurt. After the 5th inning, when he got on base, they ran for him so "nothing bad would happen".

Bottom line, beware those "he can still play at JV" promises. Most states aren't like AZ, so know the logistics of how it all works before you go all in.

Just a parenting heads up... if coach does decide to put him on varsity, he will be hanging out with 17-18 yr old young men every day for a couple or three hours. Things like dugout and warmup chatter, car rides with teammates driving, etc., can be quite different than maybe what he and mom/dad are ready for.

cabbagedad- GREAT point. I learned that the hard way when I got my call-up freshman year.

quote:

Originally posted by twotex:
Welcome!

In the long run it won't matter. The work he puts in outside of games, in the summer and in the off season will have a greater impact on future success. JMHO.

I agree with this. Although I also think that high school baseball is important to a players overall baseball experience.

I think most kids would rather play then sit. Once the excitement of making varsity subsides and a player is sitting on the bench game after game he probably would rather be playing on the JV team.

The important thing is to have his game progress year to year. If this happens and he has talent, everything will work out in the long run.

quote:

Although I also think that high school baseball is important to a players overall baseball experience.

I agree with Fillsfan on this. To me the important contribution HS baseball makes to the player centers around learning to work with players and coaches over a 4 year period. It builds character! So as a freshman, JV or varsity doesn't make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things.

Eash year I get perspective. My son is now a junior in high school, and I guess by the time he graduates I may actually know something.

My advice to every parent of a young, serious baseball player is buy the best folding chair you can afford, and enjoy the ride!

I definitely appreciate everyone's perspectives from all angles! Having this forum available on all baseball topics is such a plus.

My son is definitely a pitcher and if he desires to play college ball, that is what he will be. If he ends up playing JV, he'll get some time at 3B and maybe 1B but all coaches so far have seen his strength as a pitcher. So if the coaches see the talent for Varsity, I'm sure it will be for pitching alone. Not sure where he'll shake out in the Spring but we'll let the coaches figure that out. I do feel more prepared to have some good discussions with my son if he is presented with a choice.

Great discussions! Thanks!

The coaches are going to decide where everybody plays and they'll move players if necessary between V, JV & Frosh teams based on what they think they want or need. In the end, it won't matter that much but ideally, you want to be on the level where you're gonna get most of the playing time. Yes. I get the whole deal with practicing with the best players and observing how they approach things but there's not going to be room for everyone on the varsity, especially if it's a big program. In the end, it won't matter much because if they can play or have potential, at some point, they'll wind up on the varsity. When my son played, there were a couple players who played all-stars, travel etc. but got cut as freshman or only made it as far as JV and got cut. The most important thing for the player is to put his best effort in whatever level he winds up on because if they're on the Frosh or JV teams, at least they're on the varsity coaches radar at some level and are getting feedback from the sub-varsity coaches about the future where as the kid who gets cut is pretty much out of sight-out of mind and would have to come into tryouts the next year that much better than the returning players and those slotted to get moved up to the next level.

As long as the player does the right things and works on his game (in season & off-season), things typically work themselves out

There are a couple of things at play here. First, this a long way off right now and I would let things play out a bit before you waste any time worrying about it. I have had parents think that their son should play up when I felt he was better suited to play a year with the JV. They then transferred their disappointment (although unintentionally) to their son and he was discontent throughout the program while he could have had a great time. He did excel when brought up the next season. My view is that I will play a freshman if and only if he will make significant contributions to the varsity team. I will not waste his time by sitting him. At times when I have had a player go for a time without playing, I will let him play a game or two with the J.V. to keep him sharp. I personally went through this when I played, many years ago (ugh, I am getting old ). I played varsity as primarily a pitcher. I asked the coach if I could get some at bats with the J.V. and he let me. After an injury on the varsity, I pitched and played in the field regularly. Wait and see and then let your son see what he thinks.

quote:

Originally posted by cabbagedad:
Just a parenting heads up... if coach does decide to put him on varsity, he will be hanging out with 17-18 yr old young men every day for a couple or three hours. Things like dugout and warmup chatter, car rides with teammates driving, etc., can be quite different than maybe what he and mom/dad are ready for.

It sure helps getting in parties, too.

"Dude!"

quote:

Originally posted by cabbagedad:
Just a parenting heads up... if coach does decide to put him on varsity, he will be hanging out with 17-18 yr old young men every day for a couple or three hours. Things like dugout and warmup chatter, car rides with teammates driving, etc., can be quite different than maybe what he and mom/dad are ready for.

This is an excellent point. My son learned a few things his freshman year that I just as soon he learned later on... Probably nothing he wouldn't have learned pretty quickly anyway, but being 15 on a team with a dozen seniors was "eye opening" for him.

The flip side is, he was playing with kids who were pretty serious about baseball and also pretty good at it. He pitched against at least five kids who are now progressing through the minor leagues. Some hit the ball VERY hard, but the competition level helped him get better.

None of this matters and you need to fully understand that HS coach's generally don't care about Daddy or Mommy's opinion of when / where or how often their son plays. They are most interested in putting a team on the varsity field that will help them keep their job as a HS baseball coach for as long as possible. They generally have a love for coaching and they teach simply so they can coach. They also think they're pretty darned good at it and know a heck of a lot more than you (us).

The parameters for keeping his job will vary by class of school, AD's preferences and a bunch of politics. Some AD's want their school to win championships at all cost. Some simply don't want anyone in their office complaining about coaches. None of them want to read stories in the newspaper that disgrace their school. There are politics and dynamics you might never understand, but they drive the decision making process.

Some coaches will keep a senior who has worked his way through a year at freshman, two years at JV, all the camps and summer stuff and let him play varsity as a senior over a more talented underclassman. Others will simply cut the senior. It all depends.

Let your kid play and enjoy it. I can't believe I will watch my son play his last HS baseball game sometime this spring. It flies by...

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:
My son was also "given the opportunity to play JV when not pitching".

In AZ, varsity & JV play at the same time in opposite locations, so the varsity is @rival while the JV is playing rival at home.

Son proved he could pitch and suddenly he was "needed" in the bullpen every day. There was one week where he started the first game of the week and was allowed to go down and play JV for exactly two games. He was only allowed to DH since he had already thrown and they didn't want him getting hurt. After the 5th inning, when he got on base, they ran for him so "nothing bad would happen".

Bottom line, beware those "he can still play at JV" promises. Most states aren't like AZ, so know the logistics of how it all works before you go all in.

JMoff, it's the same here. The difference between us is my son was a starter, so he only pitched once a week. The other two games, he was able to go down and play position. If he was still sore on a Wednesday after pitching Monday, he would DH.

I understand your point though. It's sometimes hard for a coach to split a player's time depending on the player and circumstances.

quote:

Originally posted by hsballcoach:
…My view is that I will play a freshman if and only if he will make significant contributions to the varsity team. I will not waste his time by sitting him.

Exactly as it should be. No one learns more by osmosis than by playing.

quote:

At times when I have had a player go for a time without playing, I will let him play a game or two with the J.V. to keep him sharp. I personally went through this when I played, many years ago (ugh, I am getting old ). I played varsity as primarily a pitcher. I asked the coach if I could get some at bats with the J.V. and he let me. After an injury on the varsity, I pitched and played in the field regularly. Wait and see and then let your son see what he thinks.

There’s sure a lot of talk about flipping back and forth between the V and the JV. I’ve seen it happen, but nowhere to the degree that some folks here indicate that it does. Of course, everything depends on the state assn. rules you have. Here in Ca, you can be flipped back and forth as much as the coach feels is necessary, but once a player plays a game against a V game league opponent, from that time on he’s a V player and is ineligible for any team other than the V.

But to tell the truth, I’m not a big fan of flipping a kid back and forth. I say put him on the team he’s gonna get the most opportunities to develop, and leave him alone. Here’s a problem I see with the flipping back and forth. Let’s say you’ve stuck a kid on the V because you think he’s gonna be a benefit to that squad, and he’s the #2 SS. Meanwhile, down on the JV, a kid is the #1 SS and busting his hum to get better.

Now you feel the kid on the V needs a few ABs to stay sharp, so down he goes, and the kid who was the starter and doing a great job, suddenly finds himself on the bench, or moved to some other position and the kid who was starting there in on the bench. To me that’s a pantload, and doesn’t instill a lot of confidence in the coaches by the players or the parents.

Its one thing to move players up or down during preseason, some of those meaningless games early on, or even pulling kids up for post season games. But for the meat of the season, the players who’ve earned their spots and their PT should be given it, and not be bounced because the coach misjudged how much time he’d be able to give another player.

I guess its all in the perspective.

I agree with all that PT is key no matter what team/level your playing on. You might be surprised by what playing time your son receives once the season gets going. My son was a freshmen last year and did extremely well on his freshment team. After 3 games he was called up to varsity as a pitcher. By the 8th game he was starting at 3rd base and hitting in the 2 hole. He also had 6 starts at Pitcher. Lots of hard work and superior knowledge of the game over his teamates attributed to why he got the opprotunities that he did. You would be surprised how many juniors and seniors assume that they have spots wrapped up and do not give their all during practices. A great attitude can over come a lot. Tell your son to shoot for the stars and out work everyone in the off season. Hope this helps.

I tend to agree with those in the PT camp. Your son needs to play (not sit) at whatever level he eventually rises too. Quality game reps are key, regardless of JV or V, to help your son mature and develop game speed skillsets. And, I beliveve this tends to work out at the right time and place. I'd prefer a player not rotate between JV/V, as its difficult to be productive because of dramatic differences in the game. It's also a difficult emotional adjustment, especially for a freshman. The only absolute I know for sure, its not the parent's time table, its the coach's. But, in the end the needs of the program tend to dictate rosters.

GUN was blessed to have an opportunity to play Varsity summer ball, as an incoming freshman, so he got an early education. Fortunately, he handled the peer pressure just fine. In the end, he started on Varsity as a frosh and played in 117 (spring) 5A Varsity games. No doubt the intensity and competition in Varsity practice/games has been beneficial. But, I believe a player's work ethic and dedication to playing the game the right way will trump most, if not all, negative issues ocurring in high school. For those times that it doesn't, good parenting will.

JMHO, GED10DaD

My son played varsity this year as a freshman and I think overall it was the best solution and the hard work paid off- especially down the road. Given- he didn't get a whole lot of at-bats and was the first one always substituted out of a game, he still got to pitch in three separate outings and finished the season with a 2-1 record on the bump. All of the JV kids complained about how well they were hitting and pitching and how they served to be on varsity instead of son. Turned intoa pi$$ing match of sorts. But there is a huge difference between JV ball and varsity. JV ball at most schools is like hitting batting practice- you just won't see guys throwing over 75mph very often versus on varsity you will hardly never see any pitcher throwing at or below 75mph. Son struggled early in the season with the bat against guys throwing in the mid to upper 80's and a lot of people complained that their son should have been where my son was.

Then came legion ball and these same kids either decided not to play and goof off or did play on the team and struggled with the bat facing stronger pitching. All this while my son really began to shine having had more experience against the better pitching. Going into fall ball his confidence is through the roof and he is playing very well while the same kids who were on JV are still stuggling. And, they have some humbleness to themselves now along with my own son. Looking down the road, next year son will be considered a season veteran while the kids coming up from JV will still have that year to prove themselves and gain confidence. They will get less playing time while my son should be an every day starter as a sophmore and getting tons of at-bats. Those kids won't be in that position until either their junior or senior years.

I say- go for making varsity- you have to work harder and be challenged to greater obstacles but in the long run it will be better and provide more opportunities.

CH10Dad,
In my opinion, High School JV or Varsity as a freshman, in a good HS program, is really more of a parent issue.
It isn't truly a baseball one which makes any longer term difference for most players in terms of their skill level and matriculation through and/or beyond HS, as a player.
It is not where most of these kids starts that normally makes any difference in the overall and end baseball result, if the program is being run by a good, solid HS coach and coaching staff.