High Speed Pitching Clip

quote:

Originally posted by IrishDad:
I have no idea who the young man in the clip is, but it is of such high quality, I'd be interested to read some comments on the form. Most of the clips posted here are pretty blurry, and some are missing frames, so this is a nice change of pace, and perhaps I can understand what some of you are talking about.

Here are a few thoughts about the clip...

1. He kicks his glove-side leg out rather than keeping his glove-side foot under his glove-side knee. Some people do this and don't have problems, but it can cause balance problems for some people.

2. I'm not thrilled with how he strides while looking back over his glove-side shoulder. It's a little to Rick Ankiel for my taste. I'm concerned that it might cause control problems.

3. The biggest concern I have with him is how high his pitching arm side elbow gets above his shoulders. I believe that this can cause shoulder problems. See timestamp 39.04.

4. His timing is pretty good. Notice that his shoulders don't start turning until his glove-side foot is on the ground. See timestamp 39.11.

5. He lands on his heel. Some people believe that this can cause control problems. However, I don't think it will affect him since his glove-side knee is bent as he lands. See timestamp 38.12.

6. You can clearly see his pitching arm side upper arm externally rotate 90 or so degrees as his shoulders start to turn at timestamp 39.11.

7. Starting at timestamp 42.20, notice how his elbow rapidly extends 90 degrees until it is fully extended (and he then releases the ball). Some people think that the elbow maintains this 90 degree angle throughout the throw. This clip shows that this isn't the case. This rapid extension of the elbow can cause the formation of bone chips and bone spurs.

8. I would classify this pitcher as a high sidearm thrower.

9. I don't think this pitcher's hips rotate far enough ahead of his shoulders, which may cost him some velocity. I think this is in part due to the fact that he doesn't internally rotate his pitching arm side leg soon enough. This limits his hip rotation.

10. I really like what this pitcher does with his glove. He finishes in a strong fielding position.

I first see his hands (both in glove) still going up as his kick knee is also going up. I would start the hands in motion earlier so that the glove would drop behind the knee at kick, at which point the throwing hand should come out.

There is excessive throwing arm back swing here that takes the ball way too high. The result is that this pitcher is whipping the ball almost entirely with his shoulder and elbow. And the ball is flying off to the third base side, pretty much following the kick leg (which is also off balance to the third base side, really just being a bit lazy, maybe also compensating for the excessive arm back swing). I would expect this to result in symptoms like in/out control difficulty, failure to reach optimum velocity, and potential shoulder and elbow problems.

Finally, this kid is really ripped but I see very little use of the trunk. The rib cage is clearly stressed by the excessive arm swing and extension but this is not the best position for developing power. Instead of a flexing action he is getting constant extension and strain.

If he would get his hands started earlier and get up into proper "up L" position instead of that windmill hyper extension, he could drive the ball forward with good trunk rotation, forward whip and body fold. This clip shows a fastball and his release point on that should be forward a few more inches.

I shudder to think of how this kid goes about throwing a breaking pitch. The stress on his elbow must be awful.

One final, lesser note: I think his wrist is kind of stiff. He curls it a bit out of the glove and never really lets it whip. See if you can get him to relax that. My guess is that he's afraid to relax the wrist because his action as noted above is already causing him control problems and he is trying to compensate. If you cure the primary problem then he can fix this, too.

A funky motion to say the least... hard to comment with just one view.

Nice build.

While he lands closed he opens immediately and seems to lose the rotational forces he had.

Would like to see that at normal speed.

Darn near perfect.
If you find someone who is let me know.

Very poor mechanics.

Very poor arm action.

Very poor momentum development.

Way too slow.

Martini you can't think that video is in real time. It is slow motio !!!. Good obsevation too slow.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Martini you can't think that video is in real time. It is slow motio !!!. Good obsevation too slow.

BobbleheadDoll,

In an attempt to be funny the joke is actually on you. You need to spend a little more time working/playing with video clips because you obviously didn't understand what Martini meant. We went through this when you posted a clip of your son a while back and you had a similar respone to me.

Just because a clip is played in slow motion doesn't mean you can't determine how quick a delivery is. All you need to do is open the clip in a player that allows you to count frames.

I'm sure Martini will explain this in a little more detail for you if you ask him to.

Jason

I guess my sense of humour is a little different than yours. Your the agenda guy who counts frames.
The poster asked for comments and I think the guy has realtivly clean mechanics. There are small things that are minor. Martini gave no advice. Why do you think you have to reply on his behalf ? I wonder if he counts frames ?

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Your the agenda guy who counts frames.

What does this mean?

For what it's worth I wasn't questioning your opinion(s) of the delivery. I was merely pointing out your lack of understanding when it comes to analyzing video. Some of us spend a lot of time looking at and working with video, and have learned ways to use what we see to help us improve the players we work with. One of those ways is frame counting.

For example...

High level pitchers are typically < 25 frames from high knee lift to ball release on a 30 frames per second video clip. They are also typically < 20 frames from hand break to ball release. Of course there are always exceptions but for the most part these are some standards to go by when analyzing a pitchers tempo.

Jason

P.S. bbscout uses frame counting when looking at video of hitters to help him determine whether or not a hitter will be able to catch up to a 95mph fastball.

Flip I don't find Martini's remarks funny at all.
Agenda refers to the comments that you made back when I posted my son's clip. I don't mean the comments about his mechanics. You seem to have an issue that is unresolved in your mind.
There are way too many problems with trying to evaluate based on frames per second. Download it and view it in real time.

The arm action is strange to say the least. I'm not sure it is going to put a lot of stress on the arm because it doesn't look like it is going to result in much velocity.

You never know, it could be effective but the one thing it isn't is anywhere near perfect.

CA I didn't say it was perfect. Some postes point out some small issues so I was wondering what you don't like.
I think his mechanics are not stressfull aswell. I don't think he is throwing a FB as he appears to be trying to get spin on the ball as he releases it rolling his hand to the left. He rotates his shoulder too far and his stride is a little too long setting his heel down 1st. These are small adjustments and he may be trying to get rotation on the ball.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I think his mechanics are not stressfull aswell. I don't think he is throwing a FB as he appears to be trying to get spin on the ball as he releases it rolling his hand to the left. He rotates his shoulder too far and his stride is a little too long setting his heel down 1st. These are small adjustments and he may be trying to get rotation on the ball.

If you watch his hands break, you can see that he has a 4-seam FB grip. The title of the clip also implies this. You can also see a FB grip at the release point.

The rolling of his hand (really his forearm) is an example of moderate pronation. This helps to protect the elbow by keeping the bones of the elbow from slamming together.

As an aside, you can see his Triceps flop around as he pronates. Some people think the Triceps is critical to the throwing motion, but this video shows that that isn't the case. The elbow extends all by its own due to the force involved.

Therapy I agree with your analysis.
I know several guys who throw like this with no injuries and are very effective. There velocity may not be maxed out but they are still injury free.
I like seeing the lift foot below the knee and the balance slightly forward to allow the hips to rotate around. It reduces stress on the lower back. This guys balance is not that bad. My son tends to kick the lift foot out and lean back slightly at balance which has caused some lower back strain.
Overall I thought your analysis was good.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
but they are still injury free...

I'm injury free.

The kid certainly needs to lace up his glove

quote:

Originally posted by Martini:
Very poor momentum development.
Way too slow.

Martini, please elaborate on these comments.

I agree with them, by the way. I'd like to see the pitcher get the hips started forward sooner and faster, get into foot strike quicker and maybe stretch his stride out a bit. The only concern I have is a lack of flexibility in the lower back. He doesn't get much arch in his lower back at the point the shoulders square up and his back foot lifts off the ground well before ball release. He's stiff like a see-saw.

quote:

I don't think he is throwing a FB as he appears to be trying to get spin on the ball as he releases it rolling his hand to the left.

The hand/wrist/forearm always pronate after ball release regardless of the pitch thrown. This does not aotumatically imply he was trying to put spin on the ball. In fact, his hand is positioned palm forward at release which (combined with the position of the fingers) tells me he threw a fastball.

quote:

He rotates his shoulder too far and his stride is a little too long setting his heel down 1st.

Landing on the heel first is generally not a problem because after a couple milliseconds the rest of the foot comes down any way. Not much can go wrong in those couple of milliseconds - especially if the pitcher has built up good forward momentum.

Not all pitchers pronate, although many do.

Landing on the heel is not what I would teach a young pitcher. Again, many pitchers do land on the heel, though.