Hitter's Hands

Should be dead ball, called third strike. Runner can't advance on dead ball in this situation.

No argument, hands are part of bat when player swings. 2 out, run scores.

Hands are never part of the bat.

Go with 55Dad, he has it exactly right. He is also right that the hands are never part of the bat, we aren't playing basketball.

quote:

No argument, hands are part of bat when player swings. 2 out, run scores.

when will this myth die?........the hands are never part of the bat.....

just as an aside, the moment an umpire hears anyone quote this myth, they will never give that person any credence in rules knowledge.....ever...

This is one of those red flags that lets you know you are not dealing with someone who knows the rules.

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when will this myth die?........the hands are never part of the bat.....

Maybe when the players hands are made of metal...........???????????????

Great question, I'll eat crow!

6.05 f) He attempts to hit third strike and ball touches him.

5.09 d) A ball illegally batted: runners return:

I just found my rule book, and I'd be happy to show the catcher if you can give me his address

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Originally posted by piaa_ump:

quote:

No argument, hands are part of bat when player swings. 2 out, run scores.

when will this myth die?........the hands are never part of the bat.....

just as an aside, the moment an umpire hears anyone quote this myth, they will never give that person any credence in rules knowledge.....ever...

This is one of those red flags that lets you know you are not dealing with someone who knows the rules.

That is one of the reasons why I posted this. Last season something like this happened in a ballgame. The ump said that the hands are apart of the bat. It was a call that cost our team the game.

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Originally posted by tasmit:

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump:

quote:

No argument, hands are part of bat when player swings. 2 out, run scores.

when will this myth die?........the hands are never part of the bat.....

just as an aside, the moment an umpire hears anyone quote this myth, they will never give that person any credence in rules knowledge.....ever...

This is one of those red flags that lets you know you are not dealing with someone who knows the rules.

That is one of the reasons why I posted this. Last season something like this happened in a ballgame. The ump said that the hands are apart of the bat. It was a call that cost our team the game.

This is exactly why umpires need to attend good clinics. Many times youth umps are self taught and use the knowledge they picked up playing. As everyone knows, you play 95% of the game with 5% of the rules.

Simple way to remember or teach......... How many bats have you bought that had a set of hands on it?

So what is the ruling in the same situation 2-2 count if the pitched baseball hits the hands on the bat in the strike zone and the batter did not swing?

TW344

dead ball, called strike 3

by any chance, are you in Elkins?

dash-riprock:

YOU ARE CORRECT. You win one answer from me to any question you want to ask. Am I in Elkins? No. But for 5 years I was in Buchannon and spent a large portion of some very hot summers camping and backpacking in the mountains around Elkins.

TW344

I broke a bone in my elbow in Elkins my sophomore year during football playoffs.

Now granted it didn't come during the game but the night before. We stayed the night before in a hotel and our coach put 4 sophomores in a room together. During the night we were wrestling around and I jumped off the bed to drop an elbow on my buddy. He saw me coming and hit me in the legs and I flipped over and landed in like a headstand position with a lot of momentum.

We were so scared to tell coach I went throught he night and didn't tell anyone until the next morning. We made up some really stupid lie about tripping over my shoulder pads going to the bathroom.

We were pretty stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by dash_riprock:
dead ball, called strike 3

by any chance, are you in Elkins?

What if there is/are zero or one strikes?

dead ball and strike one (or two). A swing is a swing and it counts as a strike but the ball hit the batter so everything is dead (unless I am wrong).

Just remember that any time a ball hits the batter the ball is dead immediately. It doesn't matter if it was a pitch, whether he swung or not, or if it was batted. If it hits him, kill the ball. Once you kill it, then decide what happens. If he swung and it hits his hands as in the case then it is a swinging strike and you handle it like any other swinging strike. Add a strike to the count ad carry on with the AB. The only difference is no runners advance because the ball was killed.

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Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
Just remember that any time a ball hits the batter the ball is dead immediately. It doesn't matter if it was a pitch, whether he swung or not, or if it was batted. If it hits him, kill the ball. Once you kill it, then decide what happens. If he swung and it hits his hands as in the case then it is a swinging strike and you handle it like any other swinging strike. Add a strike to the count ad carry on with the AB. The only difference is no runners advance because the ball was killed.

Thanks, now if anyone will believe me? (as a coach not umpire).

MST has delivered the definative answer.........take it to the bank.

as a fellow rules interpreter, that is the textbook way to define it to umpires........

quote:

Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
Just remember that any time a ball hits the batter the ball is dead immediately. It doesn't matter if it was a pitch, whether he swung or not, or if it was batted. If it hits him, kill the ball.

A thrown ball (not a pitch) that hits the batter is live unless it is interference.

When is a batter not considered a batter anymore? When can he be get hit by a thrown ball? Dash you are just trying to confuse us coaches!

My guess gold glove would be if the pitcher steps off the rubber and then tries to throw the ball home.

For example you have a really dumb runner on third. He takes off for home. Pitcher steps off and throws the ball to the catcher. Batter stays in the box and the throw hits him.

I'm sure the pros can give you a better example than mine but that is the way I read it.

R3. Batter takes the pitch and just stands there in the box. F2 snaps a throw to 3rd that glances of the batter's helmet and goes into LF. Live ball.

R3 stealing home. Batter steps back out of the box to vacate the area around home plate. The wild throw from F1 (who stepped off) hits the batter. Live ball.

Curveball in dirt hits plate then catcher then batter (in box).

I was clear on this one beforehand, but I brought this up in the umpire's room just before tonight's games at "Da Park", and 2 of my fellow umps gave the "hands part of the bat" response. As far as any of you know, does the FED matchup with all other leagues/levels (LL, OBR, NCAA, etc.) on this?

All codes agree on this one. Your fellow umps need a refresher course.

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Originally posted by ironhorse:
Curveball in dirt hits plate then catcher then batter (in box).

Play it - no harm no foul. Pitch was over by the time it hit the batter.

Now if the pitch hit ground, then batter (in box), and then catcher then he gets first. It's still a pitch.

I know. Just throwing out thrown ball scenarios.

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I was clear on this one beforehand, but I brought this up in the umpire's room just before tonight's games at "Da Park", and 2 of my fellow umps gave the "hands part of the bat" response. As far as any of you know, does the FED matchup with all other leagues/levels (LL, OBR, NCAA, etc.) on this?

I know it is tough to be an agent of change in an association, but in this fundamental area, stick to your guns, share with them the reasonings for why this is wrong.......

Invest in the umpire manuals that can elevate your game and they will come around.....if not, consider your advancement as an umpire and find a new association..........All codes agree........and FED absolutely agrees.......

Its always disheartening to hear that HS umpires hold to these misbeliefs........this is something you hear out of the T-shirt and shorts crowd. Players at the HS level deserve better umpiring than this.