bballman,
That's the way I see it, too. There weren't as many surgeries on the arms back then because most of those surgeries didn't exist. There might have been several possible Hall of Famers in the old days who we have never heard of, because those surgeries didn't exist. There might be future Hall of Famers that we wouldn't have known except for the surgeries do exist now days.
Maybe those guys that performed so long without major injury were simply the survivors (the lucky ones). There are others in addition to Maddux and Glavine from the current era who have not had major arm problems.
When my son had his TJ in 2006 he was #17 on the table for Dr Andrews group in Birmingham that day.
On another note:
How many times do you hear "Player X will play through the season but have off season surgery to remove bone spurs, scar tissue, floaters, slight impingements". Then again, I wonder how many times do we NOT hear of the off season out-patient "tweaks". These type procedures have been significantly on the rise for the last 10 years.
Obviously, there is medical advancements that have made this all possible and that brings up the debate of the 'chicken or the egg".
Did the medical advancements happen for the public, and pro sports jumped on-board? or
Are pro sports somewhat responsible for the advancement of these minor procedures? and
As a result, did society as a whole benefit with the investment pro sports made?
With the escalating salaries in the past 20 years, did pro sports push their Ortho staffs and the medical field into an R&D mode in order to protect their "investments" with minor and preventative maintenance procedures?
In the computer field we often speak of a products "end of life", and as a result companies responded with "maintenance contracts", "upgrades", and "retrofits" in order to prolong that end of life schedule. Have sports teams done the same but the player is the product?
On another note:
How many times do you hear "Player X will play through the season but have off season surgery to remove bone spurs, scar tissue, floaters, slight impingements". Then again, I wonder how many times do we NOT hear of the off season out-patient "tweaks". These type procedures have been significantly on the rise for the last 10 years.
Obviously, there is medical advancements that have made this all possible and that brings up the debate of the 'chicken or the egg".
Did the medical advancements happen for the public, and pro sports jumped on-board? or
Are pro sports somewhat responsible for the advancement of these minor procedures? and
As a result, did society as a whole benefit with the investment pro sports made?
With the escalating salaries in the past 20 years, did pro sports push their Ortho staffs and the medical field into an R&D mode in order to protect their "investments" with minor and preventative maintenance procedures?
In the computer field we often speak of a products "end of life", and as a result companies responded with "maintenance contracts", "upgrades", and "retrofits" in order to prolong that end of life schedule. Have sports teams done the same but the player is the product?
quote:Originally posted by bballman:
I could be wrong, but I just think a big part of the "explosion" is that people know the medical remedy is there and they go to the doctor to get it taken care of. Way back when, they were just done. Not many questions asked or doctors visited.
I am with you on this too. Recently my son had a procedure in the off season for a condition that exists in very few, an over enlarged cortacoid bone, causing chronic tendinious and bursitis in the arm pit of the shoulder. After even a scope last year it is hard to detect without a new procedure that has been developed to actually find it. No tears or rips in the cuff or surrounding areas, the doctor told him most pitchers with this condition would have given up due to inability to pitch through the pain.
I agree with PG, there are probably a lot more players who would of been HOF guys, but the left the game long before that could happen.
And some of the guys who made it, they had their ways of controlling discomfort which were not surgical.
The numbers reflect a very real increase in the number of elbow ligament surgeries, shoulder/labrum repairs etc, during the past 15 years. Not only are there more, they are occuring at earlier ages. Sure the technology exists to repair and Surgeons make money operating, so the band marches on and they don't have an agenda for preventing injury.
I wonder why someone doesn't spend some time, money and energy trying to prevent injuries before it's necessary to repair and rehabilitate a pitching arm. You would think MLB would prefer to spend money on the front end, not lose time to injury and protect their sizeable pitching investments. Why is it that position players rarely require surgeries? I know pitchers are stressed over 100 pitches but are there other considerations? Position players train and throw hard every day making hundreds of throws. For example, the mechanics used in the pitching motion are vastly different than those used by an outfielder throwing to the plate, or than those used by the shortstop throwing from the "hole." Could there also be a real difference in conditioning the arm to pitch in today's world than years ago, or the way it's done elsewhere, like East Asia?
I ask because I suffered a career ending arm injury in 66, long before there were surgical remedies. I think I know why that injury happened and it may have been preventable. When my son began playing, looking into ways to strengthen his throwing arm and ensuring proper mechanics, consumed me. There is alot of contradictory thoughts on this out there but not alot of real research on the prevention side.
I wonder why someone doesn't spend some time, money and energy trying to prevent injuries before it's necessary to repair and rehabilitate a pitching arm. You would think MLB would prefer to spend money on the front end, not lose time to injury and protect their sizeable pitching investments. Why is it that position players rarely require surgeries? I know pitchers are stressed over 100 pitches but are there other considerations? Position players train and throw hard every day making hundreds of throws. For example, the mechanics used in the pitching motion are vastly different than those used by an outfielder throwing to the plate, or than those used by the shortstop throwing from the "hole." Could there also be a real difference in conditioning the arm to pitch in today's world than years ago, or the way it's done elsewhere, like East Asia?
I ask because I suffered a career ending arm injury in 66, long before there were surgical remedies. I think I know why that injury happened and it may have been preventable. When my son began playing, looking into ways to strengthen his throwing arm and ensuring proper mechanics, consumed me. There is alot of contradictory thoughts on this out there but not alot of real research on the prevention side.
ASMI has been doing research. Here is a link to their site.
http://www.asmi.org/
They have some information on various studies they have done regarding throwing a baseball.
You can also go to their message board. The docs from ASMI will frequently post what research they have done and recommendations they have come up with.
http://asmiforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?
Some interesting stuff there. They also do biomechanical evaluations of pitchers and give recommendations of mechanical flaws you may need to work on to lessen your chance of injury. We plan on doing this with my son, hopefully after the 1st of the year.
http://www.asmi.org/
They have some information on various studies they have done regarding throwing a baseball.
You can also go to their message board. The docs from ASMI will frequently post what research they have done and recommendations they have come up with.
http://asmiforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?
Some interesting stuff there. They also do biomechanical evaluations of pitchers and give recommendations of mechanical flaws you may need to work on to lessen your chance of injury. We plan on doing this with my son, hopefully after the 1st of the year.
The numbers reflect a very real increase in the number of elbow ligament surgeries, shoulder/labrum repairs etc, during the past 15 years. Not only are there more, they are occuring at earlier ages. Sure the technology exists to repair and Surgeons make money operating, so the band marches on and they don't have an agenda for preventing injury.
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in my opinion, we are seeing more surgery's bacause of the popularity of the game. how many times do we here about the 9 yr old travel team's playing 50 60 games?
i do believe kids don't throw enough at an earlier age. i'm not talking about throwing baseball's either. throwing anything will biuld the muscles, football,rocks, etc.
i bet there are 11 and 12 yr olds out there that pitch 100 plus innings a year. that may be exagerated but you get my point. i believe most early and pre teen players pitch way to much, the better they are the more they were used. then they catch or play ss. that's one reason for more injury's.
i believe kids today throw harder at an earlier age. the body isn't ready for that stress yet. just my opinion though. you don't see kids getting tj surgery that throw 70.
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in my opinion, we are seeing more surgery's bacause of the popularity of the game. how many times do we here about the 9 yr old travel team's playing 50 60 games?
i do believe kids don't throw enough at an earlier age. i'm not talking about throwing baseball's either. throwing anything will biuld the muscles, football,rocks, etc.
i bet there are 11 and 12 yr olds out there that pitch 100 plus innings a year. that may be exagerated but you get my point. i believe most early and pre teen players pitch way to much, the better they are the more they were used. then they catch or play ss. that's one reason for more injury's.
i believe kids today throw harder at an earlier age. the body isn't ready for that stress yet. just my opinion though. you don't see kids getting tj surgery that throw 70.