When you refer to the box,are you saying that the top hand and bottom hand are supposed to be making a box in the other teachings?
I can see what you call the triangle but I can also see the box VERY CLEARLY that my son's hitting instructor taught me and him.It is with the bottom hand/elbow,not the top hand.
He starts with the Epstein approach but does have some variations.
That Bonds clip is text book box from what my son has been taught.
The difference is in the action of the arms.
The school of thought to form the box, then maintain it as best you can, and then turn the body aggressively so that the barrel "flys off the merry go round" into contact....is not what is going on.
Even though it may appear that way. The slightest small movements that make a HUGE difference often times look like something else.
That is why to learn this stuff you have to swing the bat.....and preferably take live at bats.
What actually happens is not what is described above. What actually happens is the triangle formed by the two forearms and chest is rotated.
This puts the hands as the pivot point in the swing......not the spine. This means the barrel rotates about the hands.....not the spine.
It is very important to distinquish how the barrel rotates versus how the body rotates. They are not "one circle" or "concentric circles" or "swung in parallel planes" as the merry go round example would indicate.
The bat is rotated in a different plane than which the body rotates. And it isn't a parallel plane. Yes....toward the end of the swing, after the hands/forearms have spent, the body's rotation will "round off" the swing.....and this is what everyone points to (the merry go round look) and this is where they fail to make solid conclusions.
The important part of the swing is it's initiation. Not necessarily how it looks through contact. It's appearance through contact varies greatly from pitch to pitch based on the hitters timing and the pitch location. But.....the launch is very very similar every swing.
In Ortiz's launch, the barrel blurs rearward for several frames BEFORE the body's turn could cause it. THIS CAN NOT BE ACCOMPLISHED WITH A BOX. The hands must be the pivot point. Only the hands and upper body turning the triangle, by way of forearm rotation (forearm supination/pronation) and lateral tilt of the shoulders, can create this kind of batspeed this early in the swing.
And, finally, it is the position of the lead elbow that makes the real difference. IF the lead elbow starts high, up in the swing plane, and is there at initiation and pretty much remains there throughout the swing.....then you will have your box. And, from this position, you will depend on "concentric circles" or "parallel planes"....the merry go round effect. In this technique you are simply pulling the knob albeit pulling the knob by shoulder rotation. This IS bat drag. Pulling the knob equals bat drag. There are different degrees of bat drag.....it isn't just when the rear elbow leads the rear hand.
However, if your lead elbow starts down and works up during initiation, then you are rotating the triangle. Then your hands have become the pivot point for the barrel. He has learned to create batspeed earlier in the process.....by using the hands to launch the swing and the body to support the launch. Not vice versa.
Pay attention to the barrel's path....it is diagonal in nature for the first half of the swing. It is not "mostly horizontal" or "around the shoulders". It is around the hands.
The school of thought to form the box, then maintain it as best you can, and then turn the body aggressively so that the barrel "flys off the merry go round" into contact....is not what is going on.
Even though it may appear that way. The slightest small movements that make a HUGE difference often times look like something else.
That is why to learn this stuff you have to swing the bat.....and preferably take live at bats.
What actually happens is not what is described above. What actually happens is the triangle formed by the two forearms and chest is rotated.
This puts the hands as the pivot point in the swing......not the spine. This means the barrel rotates about the hands.....not the spine.
It is very important to distinquish how the barrel rotates versus how the body rotates. They are not "one circle" or "concentric circles" or "swung in parallel planes" as the merry go round example would indicate.
The bat is rotated in a different plane than which the body rotates. And it isn't a parallel plane. Yes....toward the end of the swing, after the hands/forearms have spent, the body's rotation will "round off" the swing.....and this is what everyone points to (the merry go round look) and this is where they fail to make solid conclusions.
The important part of the swing is it's initiation. Not necessarily how it looks through contact. It's appearance through contact varies greatly from pitch to pitch based on the hitters timing and the pitch location. But.....the launch is very very similar every swing.
In Ortiz's launch, the barrel blurs rearward for several frames BEFORE the body's turn could cause it. THIS CAN NOT BE ACCOMPLISHED WITH A BOX. The hands must be the pivot point. Only the hands and upper body turning the triangle, by way of forearm rotation (forearm supination/pronation) and lateral tilt of the shoulders, can create this kind of batspeed this early in the swing.
And, finally, it is the position of the lead elbow that makes the real difference. IF the lead elbow starts high, up in the swing plane, and is there at initiation and pretty much remains there throughout the swing.....then you will have your box. And, from this position, you will depend on "concentric circles" or "parallel planes"....the merry go round effect. In this technique you are simply pulling the knob albeit pulling the knob by shoulder rotation. This IS bat drag. Pulling the knob equals bat drag. There are different degrees of bat drag.....it isn't just when the rear elbow leads the rear hand.
However, if your lead elbow starts down and works up during initiation, then you are rotating the triangle. Then your hands have become the pivot point for the barrel. He has learned to create batspeed earlier in the process.....by using the hands to launch the swing and the body to support the launch. Not vice versa.
Pay attention to the barrel's path....it is diagonal in nature for the first half of the swing. It is not "mostly horizontal" or "around the shoulders". It is around the hands.
