Hitting Questions -- Striding, Follow-through

bigdawg,

I teach my hitters to keep their front foot closed (max at a 45 degree angle). If they stride with their toe pointed at the P, it opens their hips prematurely.

Relasing the top hand is a matter of style rather than substance.

I agree w/ redbird5, but also caution against this: some of our kids who like to let go of the top hand do so because their hips have stopped turning. That's probably not so bad for an outside pitch, but for middle-in, I've seen kids stop when their hips are still only facing SS (lefty), then let go of the top hand to "finish" his swing.

YMMV.

Try to open your toe toward the pitcher and keep your bat inside the target line . Spell pretzel?

Redbird is right in my opinion. They should have the toe at a 45 degree angle and they should step/stride and land like they are stepping on ice. We teach to pick the foot up and put it back down. We focus on landing on the ball of the foot. When the swing is complete, the belly button should be at the pitcher. If they achieve this, they have gotten their hips through.

"When the swing is complete, the belly button should be at the pitcher. If they achieve this, they have gotten their hips through."

CoachB25, do you really believe this?.......Belly button is upper body and hips are lower body......I'll be nice and say you need to study a little harder..

I believe the hips should open early.....They actually should begin opening during the stride.....Did I say this???..Yes, I did.....

BlueDog,

Perhaps CoachB25, like I, was just trying to be a bit PC in using the "belly button" reference. For awhile, I was saying "crotch", and though more anatomically correct, I just didn't like the sound of it.

At any rate, it seems to yield the desired result.

Sandman, perhaps, but, hands and arms hitters accomplish the belly button thing and don't use the hips properly, at all.....Also, on anything inside part of the plate, the belly button should rotate well past the pitcher, not just facing him, if the hips were used properly.....

FWIW, I find "belt buckle" substitutes nicely for "crotch".......Although, in a certain State where they wear those huge belt buckles, it ain't nothing but a tombstone for a dead rooster....

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Originally posted by BlueDog:
"When the swing is complete, the belly button should be at the pitcher. If they achieve this, they have gotten their hips through."

CoachB25, do you really believe this?.......Belly button is upper body and hips are lower body......I'll be nice and say you need to study a little harder..

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BlueDog, thanks for being nice. I hadn't noticed that the belly was the upper half of the body and the hips were the lower. Heck, there is approximately 4 inches between them and so many moving parts between. LOL! I think that one way a person teaches any concept in baseball is to overexaggerate. We say bellybutton at the pitcher as an example. I do know that with the aid of experts such as you, I'll learn how to coach hitting which is why I'm on this site. I went to your profile to see your credentials. I didn't notice you posted any. How can I learn about your qualifications? Please send me a pm via private topic.


Do you ever read the St. Louis Post Disptach Prep Sports? They have several articles thoroughout the year about how I destroying my players as hitters. One is there now.

Ahh... The good old "what are your credentials" comeback.

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Originally posted by FlippJ:
Ahh... The good old "what are your credentials" comeback.

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I crossed the line in my response and so, I'm editing it. Noticed FlippJ's profile as well.

CoachB25, I never said you are destroying hitters........I have "some" respect for anyone who tries to teach hitting.....At least they understand hitting must be taught......I must also say that you have not defended your statement that I quoted you on......If you care to try again, I will listen to your reply.....

Let's talk about credentials......You seem to be a coach of some school's baseball team.......It seems to me that you think that makes you knowledgable on hitting technique and the ability to teach it without defending your theory in a discussion......Guess what?....Not so around here......Wanna try again?

Coach, my credentials?........I don't teach baseball because my knowledge of the game is too inadequate to teach it.....

I do teach hitting, though.....My youngest student is seven.....My oldest is a Junior in College......I stay busy teaching hitting because players and their parents are dissatisfied with the results they have been getting with coaches.......I go to alot of baseball games and I see and hear alot of nonsense from coaches when the subject is hitting.....In fact, it's plain ridiculous, to put it mildly....

My son has been starting with his foot nearly closed and rotating 90 degrees open mostly during his very short stride. I've encouraged him to open it up a bit to start (30 to 45 degrees) and then to try to land at about 45 degrees open. That seems to be working. He's pretty flexible but if he tries to stay fully closed he really can't pop the hips very well. If the foot spins open more on the follow through then no big deal.

CoachB25,

I'm sorry I missed your original post. I'm sure it was "entertaining".

I don't have any credentials and don't care to have any. My only goal is to teach my 12 year old son how to swing the bat in a way that will help him reach his potential.

I guess you could say that I check my "ego" at the door when it comes to my son. Since his development is all I'm concerned with I try to keep an open mind to what everyone has to say regardless of their credentials.

Have a good one!

Jason

If a hitter points his toes at the pitcher when the stride lands he will open his hips early and pull his front side off the ball. Land with the front foot facing the plate and on the swing you will have some opening of the front foot towards the pitcher because of hitting on a stiff front side the torque of the swing will force some movement in the front foot towards the pitcher. Landing with the front foot towards the pitcher will cause the hitter to pull off the ball and will take alot of power out of the swing if you make contact at all.

Sorry Coach May but I disagree. The front foot doesn't have to land closed. In fact, if it does you can have trouble opening the hips.

Many, many mlb hitters land at a 45 degree angle and some completely open. Whether or not your shoulder flies open is not related to your front foot.

An open front foot and a closed shoulder is very possible and ideal.

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Originally posted by FlippJ:
Ahh... The good old "what are your credentials" comeback.

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Jason, The "what are your credentials" comeback is a fair question. I have always asked a question to hitting coaches that is very seldom answered. The question is "who have you taught? and where are they at"?

If you have film of the major leaguers, it will show them landing differently. Some more closed than others, and some more open than others. I have not seen many hitters land dead closed (foot pointing at plate) and I have never seen a good hitter land with his foot pointing at the pitcher.

Guys who strive to hit balls the other way as a rule will stride with a more closed foot approach. Guys who are pull hitters as a rule will stride with the lead foot more open at landing.

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Originally posted by BlueDog:
Sandman, perhaps, but, hands and arms hitters accomplish the belly button thing and don't use the hips properly, at all.....Also, on anything inside part of the plate, the belly button should rotate well past the pitcher, not just facing him, if the hips were used properly.....

FWIW, I find "belt buckle" substitutes nicely for "crotch".......Although, in a certain State where they wear those huge belt buckles, it ain't nothing but a tombstone for a dead rooster....

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Yes, I suppose "belt buckle" does work better - if only most of the kids at our level (10-12) wore pants that have belt buckles!

Depending on the speed of the pitcher I have always advised starting the load when the pitchers hands break. When teaching the load I have had success telling hitters that their belt buckle should turn towards the catcher. The turn will be slight- 2 to 4 inches. If you have a coach doing soft toss he can check this, if the person is hitting off a tee he should feel some tension on the inside of the right groin for a right handed hitter, left groin for left handed hitter. This tension will be an indication of his weight being on the inside of his right leg for righties, left leg for lefties. If no tension is felt there is a good chance the hitter is swaying back and his weight will end up beyond his back foot. This position will make it difficut for any hitter to generate bat speed. Be careful the turn is not over 2-4 inches as this will cause the batter's head to move to much which in turn will throw his vision off. Again depending on the speed of the pitcher the batter will start his forward move by pushing off the inside of his back foot. There is alot of speculation about the hips starting the forward motion. The only time this will happen is if the batter is late starting his swing. If you want an example have a player hold a bat in the ready position and then turn his hips towards an imaginary pitcher. You will find that he will end up committing his hands. When the pitcher releases the ball the front foot should be down. The batter will then have approximatly 2 tenths of a second to determine if he is going to swing. If the batter decides to swing he then committs by turning his hips which will automatically start his hands. I think there is a mistaken idea that you should have your lead foot down as early as possible. To me this would stop your swing to soon and you would have to find another trigger to start it again. I use a drill with hitters in which I have them say yes or no as a pitch is coming at them from the mount. I want batters to recognize as early as they can if the pitch is going to be good or bad. Cathchers do this all the time with breaking pitches, unfortunately batters don't get to call their pitches.

let me first say that over the last few months I've read alot on the technique that Mike Epstein teaches. It makes sense to me, and I'm trying to teach it to my 13U team.
The front foot needs to be open in order for the hips to rotate. If the front foot is closed, its very hard to get the hips rotating. We initiate the swing with the dropping of the front heel. That, in turn, leads the hips to turn while the upper body is still closed to gain the most torque.

Its interesting that my hitters with the biggest problems are the ones with the longest strides. They also have a nasty habit of bringing their front leg up before the stride out. For those kids, I'm trying to get them to start with a wider stance and little to no stride. It seems to be working.

Comments?

I prefer a short stride but there have been some great players with long strides. Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle come to mind.

Each player has their own unique way of hitting, if you try to teach the exact "same" technique to every player then you are failing as a coach. Take what the hitter already has and tweak it just a little bit.

As far as the foot goes, If the front of the foot is pointing dead towards the pitcher then the batter is losing lower body power and probably has no outer plate coverage.

If the batter is keeping their front foot closed and towards the plate then they eliminate alot of their power also and also eliminate being able to clear the hips and get the arms extended for the inside pitch.

A hitter that can do things to make themselves hit the pitch where it is thrown usually hit for the higher averages, for example- taking the outside pitch opposite field, taking the one down the middle by up the gut or pulling and then pulling the inside pitch. Using all parts of the field helps with the average.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wwhs3b:
Each player has their own unique way of hitting, if you try to teach the exact "same" technique to every player then you are failing as a coach.

This is great comment and I agree 100%. You will find people that teach both methods.

I know Mike Epstein is huge on all of these myths that are out there, but funny enough, all of the major league hitters grew up on these myths and are now playing at the highest level. However, there are some players in the major leagues that do have mechanics like the ones he teaches.

The answer is, there is no cookie cutter swing. The best hitting coaches are those that look at what is in front of them and picks on one thing at a time.

bigdawgryan:

How are things are working out with the open front foot?

There is so much info and opinions out there that when a coach introduces something that seems unconventional to you its fair game to ask him what its based on.

Yes, I personally would consider a wide open front foot pointed at the pitcher unconventional.

I agree that opening the front foot too far leaks off power potential. Inside pitch location causes the very skilled MLB players to open , turn , and hit... say a hanging CB inside location. Most MLB film will show a foot landing at 45 degrees open and no more. The hips will rotate hard and across the planted foot. OPening too much pitches the hands outside the target line reducing hip shoulder separation and decreasing torque.

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Originally posted by CoachRobert:
bigdawgryan:

How are things are working out with the open front foot?

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Well, as I said in the my original post, I am a bit old school. But, I have allowed my 13yr old son to open his front foot no more than 45 degrees. He hits very consistently, but we need to increase his power. Dad would like to see him drive it over the fence, so we are working on hip rotation, quick hands pulling the know of the bat to the ball, and swinging hard all the way through the ball. Still have lots of room for improvement in the power department. For now, I am very happy with the consistent singles, doubles and occasional triple.

Any suggestions on how to improve his power?

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..quick hands pulling the knob of the bat to the ball..

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It would be my opinion that if your son is literally doing this, he's unintentionally intentionally costing himself power.

My problem is not as much with "hands to the ball" as it is with "quick hands pulling".

I'm not a big proponent of pulling the knob to the ball. The knob needs to be pointed to the ball but actually pulling the knob to the ball tends to result in the hands getting out front too soon and the head of the bat being dragged through the zone. This results in a loss of power. There are hitters who have done this to some degree in mlb who have been very successful line drive hitters. Pete Rose tended to do it to some degree so it can't be all wrong.

"Any suggestions on how to improve his power?"

Yes.....Stop swinging through the ball.......

Something good happens or has happened when you replace your shoulders in the swing. Maybe it is just a sign that the hips launched the shoulder unit and replaced the front shoulder with the back at the finish and it is an indicator point that the proper kinetic chain was connected. Pulling the knob ( if by the arms/hands )hurts power. The appearance of pulling the knob( if the shoulders are turning with relaxed arms and hands) might be very good. It is ashamed that we cannot see which muscle groups are working specific actions. Hips launch shoulder not hands.

IMO understanding this and applying this is a key to power and the long ball

Bluedog,

Your arrogance is unnecessary and offensive. CoachB25 is a coach of a high school team I believe somewhere in southern Illinois. I can tell you that he coached previously at Edwardsville high school in Illinois. I can't say for sure if he was the main hitting coach there but his team in 1998 was the best hitting team I have ever seen at ANY level in my life. 1-9 they could all absolutely rake. They had extraordinary discipline and mechanically they were as perfect as any I have ever seen. Sometimes a great hitter will come through a school and the coaches have nothing to do with how good he is. CoachB's hitters were all on the same program. It was clear to me that they had been taught a consistent approach.

That being said, even if CoachB25 himself had not taught the hitters himself, being around that group would have been enough to learn through osmosis as much as you know.

What the heck did you just say??????

Hips, hands, belly button, crouch, who cares. The main thing I see a gravitation to in the pro's is scap loading, all the superstars are doing it. I watched the HR Derby the other night and every single hitter was scap loading. I pointed it out to my son. I have heard this term many times and studied it, read about it. I was intent on watching these superstars hit and to see if they were doing it and low and behold every one. I have since started to try and teach the technique to my 13 year old with spectacular results. He has told me that the tension in his swing is gone. He says the swing feels easier and he gets im guessing about 30% more batspeed and power. The ole concept of back elbow down or 45 deg. has keep him from really taking off. This is partially my fault because thats what ive been teaching him. It worked fine as a 9-12, but as the pitches get harder the bat has to be quicker. The only way to get quicker is with a tension free and effortless swing. Im excited about it. The most excitng part is he is excited about it. He begged me to take him to the cage today so he could practice it......lol. I have some clips if anyones cares to see.

Sure, let's see some clips!