Holding back kid for sake of hs baseball

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
I am not surprised at all. I also look for it to become more commonplace if it is determined to provide an advantage to the high school athlete. All you have to do is look the importance we put on athletics in our society and how proactive parents have become in their child’s athletics and it should come as no surprise.

1. Athletics are a very important part of today’s society. Millions and millions of dollars are given to players who do nothing for society other than perform an athletic feat.

2. Parents see their children as heirs to this spotlight if they can just provide that extra opportunity and allow that undeveloped talent to come out. Parents spend thousands and make great sacrifices attempting to accomplish this.

3. This “do what it takes” approach starts at a very early age. "T" ball and earlier! Parents devise “ways” to get the upper hand. Changing schools, buying expensive bats, gloves, personalized trainers, sending them to the most “prestigious showcases” and camps to playing on the most select teams. These are all common perceptions parents have as opening doors for their “rising superstars”. This may be fodder for another thread but parents also pay for a lot of “enhancement supplements” that are perfectly legal but do start an unhealthy mindset IMO.

4. What is the harm of holding back a student? Nothing in my opinion if you do it within the guidelines established by the school(s). I was always under the impression that students benefited academically if they were held back. If that is true, how can holding back a student for athletic reasons hurt the student athlete?

I think in Tennessee any student that is academically eligible for advancement to the next grade, but is held back at the parents request, is prohibited from participating in athletics their freshman year if that hold back takes place after the 7th grade. Any holdbacks prior to the 7th grade have no impact on high school athletics other than the possibility of the player getting too old to participate (which I think is 19). I know sports minded parents that not only juggle the academic advancement of their children for athletic reasons they go a step farther and attempt to conceive their children to be born with a good athletic birthday. ---- “Hey honey, want to make a pitcher?”
Fungo

Interesting take.

My son was often a year behind his peers in age but I always thought that was an advantage for him in the long run. I think parents should think long and hard about employing a strategy like this i.e, holding back for athletics. It may appear like there is an advantage today but that might hurt your child in the long run. The best lesson a kid might learn may not be how to build his confidence against weaker, smaller kids but perhaps better learn how to compete even when they are not the biggest or the best player on the field at the present time.

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quote:

My son was often a year behind his peers in age but I always thought that was an advantage for him in the long run. I think parents should think long and hard about employing a strategy like this i.e, holding back for athletics. It may appear like there is an advantage today but that might hurt your child in the long run. The best lesson a kid might learn may not be how to build his confidence against weaker, smaller kids but perhaps better learn how to compete even when they are not the biggest or the best player on the field at the present time.

As usual from you CD...an enlightened approach that holds way too much long term, life lesson logic....and far too little "win at any cost" practicality.


44
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PG is correct. We allowed our son to stay an extra year in HS for Basketball. He actually didn't want to play HS BB that yearh He had played varsity BB all 4 years and had MVP awards in his freshman and senior year. He only played elite BB in the 5th year and only pitched in his freshman and senior year (4th). His elite team wouldn't allow him to pitch in HS his soph and junior year.
He would never be allowed by us to stay back in the lower level grades. In Canada the education system is free up to 21yo. He took additional coarses like calculus but didn't need them. He already had everything to certify at the clearing house.
Personally I though it was a great idea. His Basket ball team went to the provincial cahmpionships and he had another trip to Vegas for a couple tournys.

My view is that parents push there kids to get opiut in the working world which is fine but I am not concerned if my son takes a year or 2 detour. I would never let him nor would he want to stay back before he was eligible to graduate HS.
He had a great time that year and so did we. It had nothing to do with a competetive advantage but rather having a great time with no pressure. He has lots of time to get out and work and has worket the last 2 years at college and he used to work while tking the extra year at HS.
Like Doc said there is more to that story presented. No lower level is going to allow you to stay back unless you need academic help. If you want something to lose confidence over it is being held back. I am dead against that.
One day I got a call from a lady who was asked without our knowkedge to evaluate our son's academic ability. She said he was fine and I had no clue what she was talking about. Turns out thye teacher thought he wasn't capable of doing the work. He didn't fifnish half his tests. He is the type who laours over the answers and was running out of time. We told him to pick it up and work faster. He did and has been an honours student all through HS and college.
My daughter had a similar problem and I told the teacher off at a parent meeting. She also was an honours student all through HS and university. Also a big achiever in the working world. She turned herslef around when she found better teachers who encouraged her.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Interesting take.

My son was often a year behind his peers in age but I always thought that was an advantage for him in the long run. I think parents should think long and hard about employing a strategy like this i.e, holding back for athletics. It may appear like there is an advantage today but that might hurt your child in the long run. The best lesson a kid might learn may not be how to build his confidence against weaker, smaller kids but perhaps better learn how to compete even when they are not the biggest or the best player on the field at the present time.

Robert Stock, a starter at USC, left high school at 16 to go to college. He would have been drafted this summer; he just turned 18.

My son, when a 16 year old junior in public HS was invited by a local private school to meet with the dean and AD---they wanted him to join them so he could help the baseball team---the catch was that he would have to enroll for his senior and PG years---yes it all be free, he would be on scholarship ---his answer was simple and polite "Sir, I am trying to get out of HS and into college, not stay in HS for additional time. Thank you very much for the offer and consideration."

I was once told and I have found it to be pretty acurate. School is the best time of your life. My son loved school and his friends. I suppose if he struggled in class it would be a different story. He was at a basketball power house and he loved it. he knew his future was in BB but he wasn't in a hurry. He knew he could play D1 and the 4 years goes by very quick in college. I think he made a great choice. Why is every one so much in a hurray ? He got 1 more year of elite BB and a trip to Vegas.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
"Sir, I am trying to get out of HS and into college, not stay in HS for additional time.

I would venture to say that is what 99.9% of HS students planning on going to college would also think.

Darn that is one heck of a high % TPM--

Yeah I went high, using the 4 of us in our household who all were once in HS. By junior year, we all began the countdown. A lot has to do with growing up, and realizing it's time to get out on your own. My son was going on 19 when he left for college and I think he really needed to get going, I could not see him waiting for almost 20 for that experience. He had an opportunity to leave early but he had committed to his teammates to play his senior year in HS.

In the past few years, I know more HS students than ever before who have left HS early to get to college, not just for athletics.

I think I posted this once, I was 4 when I began kindergarten as the cutoff was Dec 31 and I was born in November, so I was very young compared to my classmates. I look back at my report card and I see that all of the reports said the same, very young, very young, very young and I struggled in grade school. I even think at one point they considered holding me back. So I understand and as stated have taught kids in that situation. But it all evened up when I was going on 18 leaving for college, I wanted out of the house and onto better and bigger things.

I can see the one year in those type of situations, not 2 AND for baseball reasons. I am just wondering how accurate this whole situation really is.
JMO.

TPM


I will again defer to you---I keep forgetting you do not debate--you proclaim---based on your knowledge---go for it

The floor is yours---

My son enjoyed HS. He got 1 more year of Basket Ball and elite BB. He had a second Vegas trip and had visit to UNLV. He also got to work and save some money during the school year.
Not sure what growing up has to do with it. He was 19 as well and very mature. He took extra courses like calculus and to mw that was a great year for him.
He also wanted to go south which is at least 900 miles away. Had offers from local colleges but wouldn't even consider them. He just knew what he wanted.

Bobble,

We know of several baseball kids who took year 13 and it worked out real well for them. I bet you do too. Not saying it's for everyone, but I like the way that is done in Canada.

PG you are right. I know several who are doing it right now. We used to have G13 but they did away with it a few years agon.
I went to college out of G12 but had to have a high mark and leave Ontario to do it. I was one who had had enough. I didn't enjoy HS like my son did. I had given up sports in HS but got back into football in college. I was not really interested anymore and even had pro scouts talk to me but just had no desire. My son is totally different that I was.
Our football coach was Joe Rutigliano brother of Sam and all our team was mostly US guys. That was back in 64 to 68. I wish I had the desire back then that my son has now.

In our community a plan was apparently hatched to have a group of kids start kindergarten a year late for what appears to me in hindsight to have been for the sake of school sports.
As the experiment has wound up this year the experience has been the guys who graduated at 17 who stuck out a sport and joined good travel teams are the ones who the colleges are interested in, those who are 19 or late 18 year olds, while they dominated in middle school and early high school did not have the drive to compete when the less mature caught up, but the younger ones had to be driven to just not get cut.
Interestingly the ones who started school late were a group of high school coaches kids, teachers kids, and their friends in our community, it seemed like a thought out plan as I look in hindsight. I personally am loving this year as those who were considered not the cool middle school studs (younger like mine) are now going to compete at a higher level as the studs are fat and lazy and have to reminisce about the glory days at such a young age.
The downside in this experience has been the more mature but less driven coaches kids and friends took playing time away from more deserving kids who if they stuck out all the bench time would have been the top athletes at the end of high school. Instead it resulted in poor turnouts as the less mature dropped sports as kids aren't stupid, they know coaches kids, teachers kids are going to get the playing time regardless, especially if they are older and bigger in the same grade which finally resulted in ****** high school teams with few seniors.
I actually felt strongly enough about this issue to meet with the school superintendent years ago as I could see that kids dropping sports was bad for them socially and academically but I also learned that school superintendents are a revolving position, as soon as a better opportunity arises, they are gone and don't want to make any waves.

Anyway my pop psycology opinion would be let the kid start school when they are academically ready, and if sports in school are important to the parent they will play more if they are older in a grade than most of their peers, but many of them will also wind up being bullies and jerks. Being younger and having to struggle to compete might make them better people in the long run especially if they have club teams where they can compete with kids their own age in their chosen sport away from school. This little experiment certainly pointed out to me being younger that your peers generally makes you a better athlete if you stick it out.

I agree with alot of smalltowns views. I also have a son 15 as a sophomore he will be 17 as a senior. Always question if we should of waited to start school later. All situations are different some handle it better than others. As long as the grades are there I could never imagine holding him back, it would be very easy to do. We live in a smalltown as well.

quote:

Originally posted by thecrow:
What does troll mean?

Crows are legal 365 days in my state

we kept our son back a few times, one day he asked why he was the only kid 6th grade gym class with hair under his arms? he wanted to know if it was because we're italian, i said it no it's because your 23.

Your kid is doing fine academically and the parent wants to hold him back for baseball reasons? this is the same parent that some high school coach will be dealing with. good luck

My one brother who is 2 years younger than me was accelerated 2 years. He was the top student in our HS.
He always regretted that. Said he was always going out with guys who were older than him and felt out of place in his freshman year. He was even too young for a drivers licence and had to be driven every where. To a young man that can be socially embarassing.

I understand if the student is young for his grade and the parents feel that it would in his best interest to stay back a year to be with others his age/grade in high school, or if there is a academic issue that requires the student to stay back, but to hold a player back that give him another year of high school is just taking way from others on the team who will not get a shot at that position. Some schools may not care since it gives them a stronger player for the last year, but it is still not right for the others on the team who don't get the shot.

College is a totally different ball game, if the parents want to foot another years of tuition and take five years to play 4 years of athletics that is different and players have choices where they play vs high school which at times you do not.

Some states prohibit this type of "redshirting." If a child becomes sick, suffers an injury, has grade problems, etc, that's one thing. If the child has good grades and is being held back for sports reasons he/she may be facing eligibility issues. If you consider doing this, make sure to check your state's eligibility requirements.

Almost if not all of my son's basket ball teammates do the same thing. BB was different he did want other kids to have a chance to play. He also wasn't challenged in HS BB. He averaged 10 Ks per 4 innings his last year in grade 12. One game I taped you could hear the other team laughing about how ridiculous it was to face him. That is why I never used HS videos or stats when I marketed him.
Basket ball is much stronger at my son's old HS. Won city championships several years in a row and went to the provincial championships. They played against a team called East Commerce which had not lost a game in 5 years. That is the former HS of Jamal Mcclure. It had nothing to do with being dominant it was about an experience. No RS involved. I can see where the BB was not fair f he played again but the basket ball was very competetiv. They were the best team in Vegas and Bulls Head Ariz when they played there. His head coach is now the HC of the HS in Bulls Head and took them to thier 1st state championship at the 4a level in over 4o years.

A couple of people have redshirted their sons in my town in past few years. For sports. They finish 8th grade at the public school, do it again at a private school, and then onto high school. I don't agree but it happens. My opinion is that if you are not good enough to compete at the grade you belong in then chances are you will not be any better one year later.

This happens all the time in my area....
8th graders take an addition year of Home schooling... before entering High School.... It seems almost every year my son's HS team has at least one...

One, I know of, blew out his arm as a Jr and had TJ surgery.... haven't heard of him since.

Another was All Cal Fresh, and sophmore and a supplemental 1st rounder... signing for a million,
Another was 8th pick overall, signed for 2.15 million, and 4 years later was out of baseball.... and now has returned to school...

Others I have not heard about for some time....

So was it worth it... most people who have done it says yes....

I don't agree.... I think that for those who did sign a big contract, they already had the talent and it might have all occurred the same, only a year earlier... but then I could be wrong....

And then again there was Danny Almonte who's uncle only wanted a Little league championship.....

Sometimes we think a player was held back for sports and they weren't. I was talking to the parent of a kid who was held back and he told me it was the best thing he had ever done for his son. I assumed it was because of football, but as the conversation continued it was obvious that he was referring to the academics, social skills and the discipline they had at the new school he went to.

The general method for holding kids back out here is to have them repeat 8th grade by going to a private school for a year.

I have a young bday kid and the thought has never crossed my mind to hold him back for sports. The way I see it he has always played up a year or two and he has handled it pretty well. Now he is currently a 15yr old sophomore and many of his teammates are 16 going on 17 yr old. Its amazing to me and I do know of a parent that held a kid back for sports. I just don't get it especially when the kid is not exceptionally good in any sport.

I also know if he was struggling in middle school then I may have held him back academically not for sports. On a personal note I have a younger son who isn't an athlete at all. He has a young bday like his older brother but we are concerned with his maturity level and his grades at the moment. He may get held back if he doesn't improve but this is for different and more obvious reasons.

Amazing stuff!

Had a ball player here leave public school after his 2nd year of High School, to be "home schooled" by his Dad. He then procede to "Fail" him, so his son would be a year older when he returned to public High School. I call this child abuse.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
I think I posted this once, I was 4 when I began kindergarten as the cutoff was Dec 31 and I was born in November, so I was very young compared to my classmates. I look back at my report card and I see that all of the reports said the same, very young, very young, very young and I struggled in grade school.

Too funny. I was also 4 when I started Kindergarten. My first (or was it second?) grade report card had the comments: "(Bum) has absolutely no aptitude in English and probably never will have." Wow! I was eventually accepted into the University of Washington Journalism program although I declined and ended up with an M.B.A. from Eastern Washington University.

..so pardon my grammar.

quote:

So, as long as you don't turn 19 before Sept. 1 you are ok to play.

So, a player who will turn 20 in October of 2009
would be eligible to play in spring of 2009 baseball season? Is that correct? He would not have been 19 in September of 2008 when the current school years started.

This subject personally drives me nuts. Our senior son will turn 19 on May 22nd. He will play his final senior high school baseball season starting May 26th in Iowa.
My wife and I made the decision to give him the "gift of another year" when he was a little over 4 years old. We never had an idea whether or not at 4 if he would enjoy baseball or not. It has been a unique experience over the years since he started playing organized baseball in May of 1995. As he has progressed in baseball to the later years it has been unique experience as parents when you hear about the "under the cuff" comments that somehow he had an advantage because he is a "little older." In a lot of cases he grew up playing with and against guys sometime 9 to 10 months older or more, so it served him well from a baseball perspective. Humbly I can only assume that 99.5% of us parents would approach this topic in the same fashion if put in our shoes.

Wow... I'm grade-skipped, and still holding up perfectly fine in hs baseball. I'll graduate at 17.

quote:

Originally posted by MarlinsMS_35:
Wow... I'm grade-skipped, and still holding up perfectly fine in hs baseball. I'll graduate at 17.

It can be fine for high school. But another year might make you physically more ready for being considered for college baseball opportunities. My feeling is don't hold a kid back before high school. If another year will help, do it on the back end in a PG year when it's apparent the player is a college prospect.

As many have said, there are rules in most states that track HS eligibility beginning after 7th grade. Its that way in Tennessee, anyway. Read the TSSAA or TMSAA rules. You go to 8th grade twice, you lose a year at some point in HS. Plus, you must turn 19 after a certain date to be eligible in your senior year. So, there are rules in place. The problem is that that the rules are not often challenged until the player is a productive senior in a winning program. By that time, no one remembers what the kid did in 8th grade and the records are not public.

My youth baseball player will start college at 17. I watched him compete in a track meet yesterday with kids that are as much as 4 years older than him, yet only two grade level above him. I asked him if the age factor bothered him and he said, "dad, not much I can do about that. I'll just have to keep training to get better." In spite of the age difference, he placed 2nd in his events in the meet. I've vowed to stop making the age factor an issue in my sons competitions...