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Should you ever hold a runner on 3B. It has happened a few times this year. My answer is Never, you are sacrificing a fielder being out of position to make a play on the ball. He might creep close to the bag to keep the runner close to the bag but not take up a first baseman type hold. We have a young, somewhat inexperienced 3B so I thought that the coach would motion to him to move away but just looked at him and said nothing. Situations when this has happened have varied form early in the game with runners on 2B/3B to late in the game down by 3 runs with bases loaded. Am I missing something??

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PA2016, you didn't get a response because you answered your own question.  You would never do it.  Where is the runner going to go?  A "vicinity" hold would be the most you would give. 

Cheesy, please explain why you would do this.  Maybe there is something I can learn but never saw it at any level and can't imagine any reason to make the 5-6 hole way bigger than it needs to be. 

Last edited by cabbagedad

Cheesy, you do understand that PA2016 is actually talking about holding that runner like a 1b, right?  You would never do this.  If you need to get that out at home, you have your infield in.  3b is roughly bag level deep but 3-4 steps off the bag.  Hovering in that vicinity will prevent too large a lead from R3.  He will not score on a fielded ground ball unless it is a complete nubber.

I love the way people on this forum always go into attack mode when someone disagrees with someone else or says something halfway unconventional and they are poor coaches.

 

Why do coaches hold a runner on 1st when a runner is on 2nd. While the situation is not totally similar it is a question I often wonder about. At the high school level I see way more of these situations.

 

Eventually we may get burned on this the half dozen times we've done it in three years. Like I say to each his own.

@ cabbage dad

 

It isn't something that I would want to do a lot.  I did experience a couple times in college the ball was never  hit to 3b side but we did throw a quick runner out at home. Whether it helped keep the runner one step closer thus letting us make a close play I don't know.  

 

I do know it probably helped my jv team once and our varsity team at east once. Haven't gotten stung by it yet.

 

I see it a lot on the high school level, and I don't mean once a game especially at jv levels.

 

To answer your question personally I think seeing it as regularly as I do, I think coaches are not confident in their kids moving during a play. When my college coach used it  and when we used it, it was as a called play. In all the cases the 3b moves more like 1b as ball is pitched.

Last edited by Cheesy Curve
Originally Posted by Cheesy Curve:

 

Why do coaches hold a runner on 1st when a runner is on 2nd. While the situation is not totally similar it is a question I often wonder about. At the high school level I see way more of these situations.

 

You hold the runner on 1st to prevent him from reaching 3rd or scoring on a hit or extra base hit.  This isn't a risk with a runner on 3rd.

Yes i know this, it was rhetorical question. Although against most batters the hole left between first and second baseman in that situation is much easier to hit for a eighty than the hole between third and shortstop is for a lefty to hit (many mlb cant hit that hole that's why teams play the shift.  Holding on 1st is also trying to keep runner from going to third. The half dozen or so situations where I have seen it or used was an attempt to keep a speedy runner locked on 3rd in possible game winning or tying situation.

 

BTW 20 years ago playing a shift was crazy.

@ lion baseball

 

3b is I think more psychological issue to try pickoffs. Mistakes just don't lead to advancing but to runs as well if there is a mistake.

 

 

Thanks Goldman25 now I'm not only a poor coach but little league as well.  At least I'm pretty sure that wasn't a compliment. I use the hidden ball trick every now and then as well so I guess I'm an amateur to.

Hold them at 3rd NO! pick them YES. with 2 outs this might be risky, but with no outs you might consider the runner is gonna score anyway (unless your flamethrower is on the hill) and might as well take a shot at him.

I am big on keeping the double play in order so I almost always hold the runner at 1st. It also gives my catcher a chance.

Originally Posted by Cheesy Curve:

@ lion baseball

 

3b is I think more psychological issue to try pickoffs. Mistakes just don't lead to advancing but to runs as well if there is a mistake.

 

 

Thanks Goldman25 now I'm not only a poor coach but little league as well.  At least I'm pretty sure that wasn't a compliment. I use the hidden ball trick every now and then as well so I guess I'm an amateur to.

It wasn't a shot at you at all.  You make a good argument for the specific situation to do it.  I was just referring to our freshman 3B who does all the time because that's what he was taught in "little league."

Why do coaches hold a runner on 1st when a runner is on 2nd?  

 

I don't see it a lot.

 

When I do see it, I assume they're trying to keep the double play in order.  But it makes no sense. With r1/r2 (a runner in scoring position), the priority becomes keep-the-ball-in-the-infield/avoid-the-big-inning. Yet, they've got three infielders playing out of position (the first baseman, plus the two MIFs cheating in and towards the bag).

 

 

Last edited by freddy77
Originally Posted by Cheesy Curve:

It suprises me to, we see it in our little and youth league as well.  It suprises me that a a previous poster has seen this rarely.

 

Holding runners at 3B? I don't feel the reward outweighs the risk at the level I coach.  If the runner is doing things correctly, his primary lead isn't worthy of being held on anyway. 

 

In certain levels of baseball, I can see this as a viable strategy but I'm doubt it would work against higher level teams.

What situations dictate cutting down a runner's lead at 3B?

 

Ball in dirt - probably not going to score

Ball to backstop - probably will score

Fly ball with less than two outs - lead doesn't matter

Squeeze - so many things to eliminate this

1.  Have pitcher vary deliver to plate and outright hold the ball until time is called

2.  Pitchout on a break to the plate - if he has a big enough lead then you can back pick with catcher throwing to 3Bman

3.  Go from stretch and not windup

4.  Run an actual pick play with 3B or SS

5.  Quick step off to see if a squeeze may be on

 

I'm forgetting some but my point is I don't know of any real situation where holding a runner on at 3B is worth the risk / reward that redbird is talking about.  

Holding a runner on 1B with a runner at 2B usually looks bad.  Maybe the only reason would be if the runner at 1B represented the winning run with two outs and a full count.

 

Holding a runner on 3B always looks bad.  When I see it I always think someone doesn't know what they are doing.  If there is reason to hold that runner you play closer to the bag.  Getting in the first baseman hold runner position at 3B just looks awful.  

Just to qualify my answer a bit (I guess I didn't read the posts that closely), I don't have F5 standing there like F3 would hold an R1. My guy is usually hugging the line three steps or so back and feinting in enough to hold R3 close. IN fact, with 1&3 when playing summer under OBR rules, I often pick to third with idea, not of picking R3, but of going straight to second on a stealing R1. So, that's another sitch where my F5 is close by.

Originally Posted by roothog66:

Just to qualify my answer a bit (I guess I didn't read the posts that closely), I don't have F5 standing there like F3 would hold an R1. My guy is usually hugging the line three steps or so back and feinting in enough to hold R3 close. ...

Yeah, Root, that's the rub in this conversation. Huge difference.

 

Ironhorse, any chance of a video clip?  Would love to see this.  Actually holding him on like a 1b?

Originally Posted by freddy77:
Originally Posted by ironhorse:

. Carpenter was holding a runner on Opening night at Wrigley with Rizzo up. Shocked me.

 

 

 

I saw that too. Wacky.

They where talking about that on the Cubs vs Rockies broadcast yesterday.  Cubs had the shift on and the runner on third was getting way down the line.  They moved Castro closer to 3B to keep the guy "honest."

Originally Posted by roothog66:

Just to qualify my answer a bit (I guess I didn't read the posts that closely), I don't have F5 standing there like F3 would hold an R1. My guy is usually hugging the line three steps or so back and feinting in enough to hold R3 close. IN fact, with 1&3 when playing summer under OBR rules, I often pick to third with idea, not of picking R3, but of going straight to second on a stealing R1. So, that's another sitch where my F5 is close by.

Oh yeah this is definitely OK.  This makes sense.  In the case of the Cubs and Cardinals - how many times will they run this this year?  Probably not enough to truly embrace it as a way of doing things.  They are so advanced someone saw or knows something we probably don't that makes it necessary.  Doesn't mean we need to adopt it at our lower levels.

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