Wow, all I can say is that I'm happy Furcal is going to jail afterthe playoffs, and boy do we ever need Chipper to step up.
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Now we have a football player and a baseball player guilty...and both will wait until their seasons are over to serve their time...we are going the wrong way folks. Should we allow atletes to have special privledges over the normal? I think not!
A normal person is already serving their time. What have we come to?
A normal person is already serving their time. What have we come to?
And poor MARTHA cannot get a break !!!
Go Figure!!!
Go Figure!!!
No kidding, my 11 year old asks "Why do they get to wait until after the season?"
Geez!
Geez!
did bobby cox really try to steal with jd drew on,NO OUT, middle of the lineup up? or was i magining that mega-stupid move?
wow, the braves pulled off another heart stopper today thanks to LaRoche, this guy is saving the series, and Chip had a couple of knock too
I was only able to see JD Drew's AB in the ninth. How huge was the 3-1 deuce the ump called a strike. Drew didn't like the call. But that strike got him a fastball. Looked like the pitcher was trying to walk him with first open, but with a 3-2 count fed him a fastball. I wonder if both Drew and the pitcher were mad about the strike call on 3-1.
Watch out for those Braves!!
Right now the pressure is on the Astros' shoulders. They have NEVER won a postseason series and have to go back to the ATL. Should be a good game.
Right now the pressure is on the Astros' shoulders. They have NEVER won a postseason series and have to go back to the ATL. Should be a good game.
Panic managing by Garner. All of Red Sox Nation knows that Clemens is generally ineffective on 3 days rest. Yes, Roger pitched effectively for 5 innings. But if Clemens has 4 days rest he can pitch for 7 innings, and Lidge cleans up innings 8 & 9. Series to Astros.
Now Garner has another pitcher ready to go on 3 days rest. As my 2 favorite animated British beer drinking spokepersons would say - Brilliant!
Now Garner has another pitcher ready to go on 3 days rest. As my 2 favorite animated British beer drinking spokepersons would say - Brilliant!
Gee, suddenly VERY QUIET here in Bravesland...
---love that sound...whoooosh! Flushed and GONE!! 
---love that sound...whoooosh! Flushed and GONE!!
dbg
If the Astros keep hitting like this we need not worry about Garner panic managing
In fact he may well be AL Manager of the Year
If the Astros keep hitting like this we need not worry about Garner panic managing
In fact he may well be AL Manager of the Year
PAMom...I attended the game last night. What a heartbreaker. I stayed until the end, hoping for a miracle comeback. Well, maybe next year.
Catfish --
How did the players seem to you, being at the game? Rather looked as if they were going through the motions, watching on TV. Not sloppy or incompetent, just generally flat. (Except Furcal, but he had the most motivation to keep going
)
Speaking of sloppy and incompetent, why oh why is postseason on Fox??????
How did the players seem to you, being at the game? Rather looked as if they were going through the motions, watching on TV. Not sloppy or incompetent, just generally flat. (Except Furcal, but he had the most motivation to keep going
)Speaking of sloppy and incompetent, why oh why is postseason on Fox??????
I said it a month ago and it will happen. A heavyweight world series. Each teams a "TON" Boston and Houston
Oh and don't be STONED (pronounced stunned)
BOSTON (ston) Houston (Ston)
But who will win????
Oh and don't be STONED (pronounced stunned)
BOSTON (ston) Houston (Ston)
But who will win????
either way it would be a great series. I am surpised no one has mentioned any Roger Clemmens vs. old teams talk. Who do you think Roger would want to beat more? Boston or Steinbrenner?
TR, if Garner wins the AL Manager award, that would be a great accomplishment! Considering he's managing a team in the NL. 
LaRussa cost the Cardinals the chance at a World Series when, in September, he rested many starters against Houston rather than playing to win and eliminate them from the wild card. I believe Houston won 5 of 6 including a series sweep.
I wonder if he was "letting" them win to eliminate the Cubs. Bad judgement. The Cubs were eliminating themselves. The Cards should've eliminated Houston when they had the chance.
Houston's horrible start doesn't override the quality of their pitching staff. The Cardinals can't match Clemens, Oswalt and Lidge. They should have played to win in September because the Astros pitching is too tough in a short series.
Cards only chance is that Clemens and Oswalt probably can't throw 2 games each.
Lineups are both full of quality players and hitters. The pitching heavily favors Houston in a short series.
I wonder if he was "letting" them win to eliminate the Cubs. Bad judgement. The Cubs were eliminating themselves. The Cards should've eliminated Houston when they had the chance.
Houston's horrible start doesn't override the quality of their pitching staff. The Cardinals can't match Clemens, Oswalt and Lidge. They should have played to win in September because the Astros pitching is too tough in a short series.
Cards only chance is that Clemens and Oswalt probably can't throw 2 games each.
Lineups are both full of quality players and hitters. The pitching heavily favors Houston in a short series.
Fortunately, they're going to let the games be played in any case. And the 'short series' is over; we're into 4 out of 7 now...as long as they get.
I get amused when people suggest that LaRussa rested players (or even tanked the series) to get rid of the Cubs, or any other team for that matter. His business was seeing to his own club's health and preparation. You know, things he can have influence over. Up until that last series with the Astros (which was meaningless for the standings as far as the Cards were concerned, but a chance to try players against a potential postseason opponent), the Cardinals had a winning record against every team in the league (and 11-1 in interleague) Who were they supposed to be "afraid of" in divisional and NLCS play?
The team was 14 games ahead and assured of postseason play. After a year with surprsingly few injuries, the Cards had Rolen out, Carpenter down, and some tweaks with Pujols' foot, and Edmonds' leg problem. Periodically resting players not only gave them time to heal, but got the bench even more active (keeping the bench sharp has always been LaRussa's style) which had the additional benefit of helping with his selections for the postseason roster.
Had the Cards "run up the lead" would that have eliminated the WC team altogether somehow? Or would there still have been a fourth quality squad out there?
Conversely, the Astros had to play flatout all the way. Does this give them momentum or are they running on fumes? Well, I guess we'll find out.
The Cardinals haven't had a marquee, strike-fear pitcher all year. What they have had is serious D and O. Be it a leaping catch at the fence, a DP, or a simple GO, they're outs the same as K's.
The weakness the Cardinals showed in divisional play was that Rolen and Edmonds weren't producing, though I don't know that any opponent will count on that continuing enough to stop pitching to Pujols. The other seven slots did produce (and we fans were purty durn amused to see Suppan's performance at the plate in Game 4, I can tell you!
)
So, sir, I don't think it's quite as cut-and-dried as you present. The Cards may just have more than that "only" chance.
And the 'short series' is over; we're into 4 out of 7 now...as long as they get.I get amused when people suggest that LaRussa rested players (or even tanked the series) to get rid of the Cubs, or any other team for that matter. His business was seeing to his own club's health and preparation. You know, things he can have influence over. Up until that last series with the Astros (which was meaningless for the standings as far as the Cards were concerned, but a chance to try players against a potential postseason opponent), the Cardinals had a winning record against every team in the league (and 11-1 in interleague) Who were they supposed to be "afraid of" in divisional and NLCS play?
The team was 14 games ahead and assured of postseason play. After a year with surprsingly few injuries, the Cards had Rolen out, Carpenter down, and some tweaks with Pujols' foot, and Edmonds' leg problem. Periodically resting players not only gave them time to heal, but got the bench even more active (keeping the bench sharp has always been LaRussa's style) which had the additional benefit of helping with his selections for the postseason roster.
Had the Cards "run up the lead" would that have eliminated the WC team altogether somehow? Or would there still have been a fourth quality squad out there?
Conversely, the Astros had to play flatout all the way. Does this give them momentum or are they running on fumes? Well, I guess we'll find out.
The Cardinals haven't had a marquee, strike-fear pitcher all year. What they have had is serious D and O. Be it a leaping catch at the fence, a DP, or a simple GO, they're outs the same as K's.
The weakness the Cardinals showed in divisional play was that Rolen and Edmonds weren't producing, though I don't know that any opponent will count on that continuing enough to stop pitching to Pujols. The other seven slots did produce (and we fans were purty durn amused to see Suppan's performance at the plate in Game 4, I can tell you!
)So, sir, I don't think it's quite as cut-and-dried as you present. The Cards may just have more than that "only" chance.
Orlando...Hi, buddy. The Braves were very up beat at first. Then, of course, as the game began to get away from them you could read the expressions on their faces: "Oh, no, not again."
We were joking in my section how Furcal had the most to gain by continuing to play...and he played like a man on a mission. If a few more of them had been facing some jail time, we would have won that game for sure.
JUST KIDDING!!
We were joking in my section how Furcal had the most to gain by continuing to play...and he played like a man on a mission.
If a few more of them had been facing some jail time, we would have won that game for sure. JUST KIDDING!!
quote:
...And the 'short series' is over; we're into 4 out of 7 now...as long as they get...
I'll be nice.
When your best pitchers are able to throw 2 or 3 times against you, in any given series, that is a short series. Whether it is 5 games or 7 games, it's still short, as compared to a season.
No, LaRussa wouldn't eliminate the wild card. He still had to play someone. I just think the Giants were our best opponent. Other than Schmidt, their pitching is average. But, the Cubs and Astros have some great pitchers. The Cards have no great pithcers. But, he chose rest instead of elimination.
And, the Cardinals are no different than any other team when it comes to offensive production against top pitching.......It's not real good. Now, the Astroes get to face our less than great pitchers with a lineup that is very good (if not equal or better than the Cards) while the Cards lineup gets to face a couple of great pitchers, at least once each, and maybe twice.
They are very lucky that the Braves won game 4 because now they may only face Clemens and Oswalt once each. At least not both of them twice.
I hope that clarifies the issue.
With todays pitchers going on 4 days rest all season, I think teams are making a mistake sending their guys out to the mound on short rest, as they usually 1. don't pitch as well as they normally do, and 2. If they do pitch well, they yank them after 5 innings and beat up their bullpen.It is not like days past when Koufax would go on two days rest and then throw a shutout.
Teacherman
I enjoy reading your posts and I am a Braves fan through and through, but for you to suggest that Houston's lineup is better than the Card's is DELUSIONAL!
I enjoy reading your posts and I am a Braves fan through and through, but for you to suggest that Houston's lineup is better than the Card's is DELUSIONAL!
Bottom line,
Braves will be ******* down Budweisers and eating Fritos (in their million dollar mansions LOL) watching the rest of the playoffs.
Season over. They didnt get it done - and it doesnt make a difference why.
They are done.
Braves will be ******* down Budweisers and eating Fritos (in their million dollar mansions LOL) watching the rest of the playoffs.
Season over. They didnt get it done - and it doesnt make a difference why.
They are done.
Offensive Comparison
C: Even
1B: Pujols (Bagwell is no slouch)
2B: Kent
SS: Renteria
3B: Rolen
LF: Biggio
CF: Beltran (Edmonds close but inconsistent)
RF: Walker (Berkman very close)
I give 4 of the 8 positions to Houston with 3 positions very competitive. Houston has 2 players almost equal to the winner. StL has one.
I happen to like the Cardinals lineup but my comment is far from delusional.
If I would give the Cards an A for their lineup I would give Houston an A-.
Now, put the Cards lineup against Houston's pitching and the Astros lineup against the Cards pitching. On paper you can clearly see why the Cards were picked 3rd in the division and the Astros first.
And, you can clearly see why the Cards should have made every effort to eliminate the Astros.
C: Even
1B: Pujols (Bagwell is no slouch)
2B: Kent
SS: Renteria
3B: Rolen
LF: Biggio
CF: Beltran (Edmonds close but inconsistent)
RF: Walker (Berkman very close)
I give 4 of the 8 positions to Houston with 3 positions very competitive. Houston has 2 players almost equal to the winner. StL has one.
I happen to like the Cardinals lineup but my comment is far from delusional.
If I would give the Cards an A for their lineup I would give Houston an A-.
Now, put the Cards lineup against Houston's pitching and the Astros lineup against the Cards pitching. On paper you can clearly see why the Cards were picked 3rd in the division and the Astros first.
And, you can clearly see why the Cards should have made every effort to eliminate the Astros.
itsinthegame
True...(burp).
Teacherman
I won't argue the pitching ...and I won't argue good pitching vs. good hitting. I won't even suggest that the Card's are a lock, but the Card's have had incredible sticks top-to-bottom all season long. I don't think there is a better lineup in baseball. (Delusional may have been a bit strong...)
R.
True...(burp).
Teacherman
I won't argue the pitching ...and I won't argue good pitching vs. good hitting. I won't even suggest that the Card's are a lock, but the Card's have had incredible sticks top-to-bottom all season long. I don't think there is a better lineup in baseball. (Delusional may have been a bit strong...
)R.
Right now - Chipper is ******* down Buds with Joe McEwing and Mr. Looper.
Its all the same now.
Only decision is whether you use the surround sound or not to watch the other fellas play.
Its all the same now.
Only decision is whether you use the surround sound or not to watch the other fellas play.
Well, T, I'd disagree somewhat with your assessment. I'd rate the OFs and catchers as even, and give the Astros the edge at 2nd, and the Cards the edge at 1st, 3rd, and SS. And give the Cards the nod on speed.
And all that means exactly squat. If, on the day, Jeff Suppan can turn in 2 hits in Game 4 on the back of a season .070 average while Rolen goes 0-fer, I'm thinking anything can happen.
Particularly with Carp down and several starters limping, I still agree that LaRussa should have been taking care of the team first (including his amusing "bullpen cocktail" expirement) with enough confidence that they can hang with any team going. Even the Giants or Cubs would have looked formidable with Rolen replaced with Mabry, Taguchi instead of Edmonds, and/or Ankiel or Haren instead of Morris (and I think of him as MorHRis, myself!)
Had the Astros solved their own problems earlier...or not had that fire lit under them by the Cubs' antics...it wouldn't have mattered what happened in that last series as it wouldn't have been close.
There are too many factors in a team, a season, or a series to boil it down to Arms & Hammers.
And all that means exactly squat. If, on the day, Jeff Suppan can turn in 2 hits in Game 4 on the back of a season .070 average while Rolen goes 0-fer, I'm thinking anything can happen.
Particularly with Carp down and several starters limping, I still agree that LaRussa should have been taking care of the team first (including his amusing "bullpen cocktail" expirement) with enough confidence that they can hang with any team going. Even the Giants or Cubs would have looked formidable with Rolen replaced with Mabry, Taguchi instead of Edmonds, and/or Ankiel or Haren instead of Morris (and I think of him as MorHRis, myself!)
Had the Astros solved their own problems earlier...or not had that fire lit under them by the Cubs' antics...it wouldn't have mattered what happened in that last series as it wouldn't have been close.
There are too many factors in a team, a season, or a series to boil it down to Arms & Hammers.
You can all compare all you want but in a series, ANY series, David beats Goliath as often as not. Just ask last year's runner-up... 
My rank of the outfielders offensively....
Beltran
Walker
Berkman
Edmonds
Biggio
Sanders
Astros are 1st, 3rd, 5th.
Cards are 2nd, 4th, 6th.
I wouldn't call that even. You can make a case for Berkman over Walker and Edmonds over Biggio depending on whether you consider this years performance more important than career numbers. But, the lineups are very close no matter how you slice it.
The Astros have the pitching. Cards simply can't compare to Clemens, Oswalt, and Lidge. Cards have the bullpen depth but no stars. And Isringhausen is an accident waiting to happen.
Beltran
Walker
Berkman
Edmonds
Biggio
Sanders
Astros are 1st, 3rd, 5th.
Cards are 2nd, 4th, 6th.
I wouldn't call that even. You can make a case for Berkman over Walker and Edmonds over Biggio depending on whether you consider this years performance more important than career numbers. But, the lineups are very close no matter how you slice it.
The Astros have the pitching. Cards simply can't compare to Clemens, Oswalt, and Lidge. Cards have the bullpen depth but no stars. And Isringhausen is an accident waiting to happen.
quote:
Right now - Chipper is ******* down Buds with Joe McEwing and Mr. Looper.
The Metsies have a head start though.
Great, T, don't call it even. And I promise I won't take your opinion as fact if you'll do the same for me.
Does Oswalt's pre-game pain shot trump Morris' propensity to give up the HR? Does the talent of 2 starters make up for any innings the bullpen has to throw? Didn't the Twins have two starters that were supposed to have carried them? Like I said, it all means squat. The only thing that means anything goes on between the lines. This game has way too many moving parts to chart it out.
And by all those preseason comparisons and analysis, the Cards were to have finished third in the division anyway. Ooops.
The manager's job is to give the team the best chance to win, and that's by putting the best/healthy 9 out there; that was LaRussa's end-of-season goal. And to suggest that he was both petty and shortsighted enough to elevate the Astros so as to dump the Cubs is ludicrous.
I think (and hope!) it's going to be a heck of a series between two quality teams. Which is, indeed, the object of the excersize.
Does Oswalt's pre-game pain shot trump Morris' propensity to give up the HR? Does the talent of 2 starters make up for any innings the bullpen has to throw? Didn't the Twins have two starters that were supposed to have carried them? Like I said, it all means squat. The only thing that means anything goes on between the lines. This game has way too many moving parts to chart it out.
And by all those preseason comparisons and analysis, the Cards were to have finished third in the division anyway. Ooops.
The manager's job is to give the team the best chance to win, and that's by putting the best/healthy 9 out there; that was LaRussa's end-of-season goal. And to suggest that he was both petty and shortsighted enough to elevate the Astros so as to dump the Cubs is ludicrous.
I think (and hope!) it's going to be a heck of a series between two quality teams. Which is, indeed, the object of the excersize.
Actually the Cards didn't have a winning record against every team in the league. Astros edged them 10-8. Astros won 6 of the last 7, and went 6-3 at Busch. And Backe can pitch too. Astros 36 runs, 58 hits, 11 HR's are all NLDS records. Going to be a great series.
That's why they play the games. I can't wait til Wed night!! 
Go Stros!!
Go Stros!!
To win:
1. Have to be lucky! I know what you are thinking! However, luck is opportunity waiting for a place to happen. Whoever takes advantage of the other team's mistakes could win.
2. Injuries could be very important. Injuries:
A. Carpenter out!
B. Rolen isn't normal!
C. Pujos said in an interview the other day that he was beaten up. In fact, the trainer stated to the analyst the other night that Pujos was very tough and is playing with some injuries that most people wouldn't.
3. Generally, the team playing the best ball come playoff time continues to have momentum. Give this one to the Astros.
4. Home field advantage. Interesting enough, a few pitchers on the Cardinal's staff have terrible home records.
5. Home field advantage. Should be equal but that hill in center, the general layout of that ridiculous park, etc. should go to the Astros.
6. Lack of doing what you do. I once heard one coach say that he won because his teams "do what the do." Didn't make sense to me then. Now it makes a lot of sense. The Cardinals are not having good plate appearance in the middle of the lineup.
I love the Cardinals. I will be rooting for them with all of my heart. I will keep all sharp objects out of my hands during the game. However, I think the Astros will win. I HOPE I'M WRONG. Had this series occurred in September, I think that the Cardinals would have walked away with it. Now, ...
1. Have to be lucky! I know what you are thinking! However, luck is opportunity waiting for a place to happen. Whoever takes advantage of the other team's mistakes could win.
2. Injuries could be very important. Injuries:
A. Carpenter out!
B. Rolen isn't normal!
C. Pujos said in an interview the other day that he was beaten up. In fact, the trainer stated to the analyst the other night that Pujos was very tough and is playing with some injuries that most people wouldn't.
3. Generally, the team playing the best ball come playoff time continues to have momentum. Give this one to the Astros.
4. Home field advantage. Interesting enough, a few pitchers on the Cardinal's staff have terrible home records.
5. Home field advantage. Should be equal but that hill in center, the general layout of that ridiculous park, etc. should go to the Astros.
6. Lack of doing what you do. I once heard one coach say that he won because his teams "do what the do." Didn't make sense to me then. Now it makes a lot of sense. The Cardinals are not having good plate appearance in the middle of the lineup.
I love the Cardinals. I will be rooting for them with all of my heart. I will keep all sharp objects out of my hands during the game. However, I think the Astros will win. I HOPE I'M WRONG. Had this series occurred in September, I think that the Cardinals would have walked away with it. Now, ...
Dad04,
How very true - (and hurtful LOL)
The entire Mets team could have been woofing down Budweisers in June - for all that matters.
Either way - I hope that the new "Murderers Row" of the NY Mets enjoys the action on the tube.
How very true - (and hurtful LOL)
The entire Mets team could have been woofing down Budweisers in June - for all that matters.
Either way - I hope that the new "Murderers Row" of the NY Mets enjoys the action on the tube.
Actually, Coach, I'd be happier if we kept sharp objects away from Matheny!
Beltran's also listed as day-to-day. The Cards played rather well against the Dodgers (not letting them, for example, come from behind), and have used considerably less pitchng. So again, is the momentum with the Astros or are they out of gas? Will postseason experience be a factor? How about the home fans? As even as many aspects of these teams are, any given game might turn on a few small factors.
And TX05Dad, that's why I began that sentence with "up until the last series".
Beltran's also listed as day-to-day. The Cards played rather well against the Dodgers (not letting them, for example, come from behind), and have used considerably less pitchng. So again, is the momentum with the Astros or are they out of gas? Will postseason experience be a factor? How about the home fans? As even as many aspects of these teams are, any given game might turn on a few small factors.
And TX05Dad, that's why I began that sentence with "up until the last series".
Orlando, one thing is for sure, In March, we would have given anything to have this opportunity. NOW WE GET TO HAVE THAT SHOT!!! I'm so thrilled! Anything can happen in this great game and so...
GO CARDINALS!!! BTW, FORCAST IS FOR RAIN WEDNESDAY. IT MIGHT CLEAR OFF JUST IN TIME. IT IS POURING AS OF NOW.
GO CARDINALS!!! BTW, FORCAST IS FOR RAIN WEDNESDAY. IT MIGHT CLEAR OFF JUST IN TIME. IT IS POURING AS OF NOW.
Well, Coach, we got the first two and going to Houston with Clemens and Oswalt up, those were crucial. The Cardinals' solid D and Garner's run at the Grady Little Pitcher Handling Award has helped immensely.