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51 replies

How accurate are top pitchers? If pitching were archery?

M micdsguy1,000+ posts
How good would top pitchers be if they had to hit a bullseye rather than their unknown (to the fan anyway) target in or around the strike zone?

Watching pitchers tells the casual spectator little about how accurate the hurler is. Pitchers rarely aim "right down Broadway." They go for corners. Often they intentionally miss the strike zone, frequently by a wide margin. They throw high, then even higher. Curves dive into the dirt to the dismay of fans but to the delight of his coach. Truly skilled pitchers sometimes try to appear out of control.

Recently I had a rare opportunity to watch a pro pitcher throw at a "bullseye" and boy was I impressed. Without fail he hit a target (about 8" by 8") about 20 times in a row. Usually it was "nothing but net!"

Every pitcher/pitcher-parent talks about expected pitching speed. But what degree of accuracy is normal for pitchers at different levels?
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FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
I think it all depends on the level of competition. At the high school level the “effectively wild” fastballer will dominate batters because of the lack of plate discipline from the opposing hitters. As the level of play increases and the opposition’s plate discipline increases, the need for control increases. If you can’t hit your spots in college, you probably won’t last long.
Fungo
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
Location without movement is useless. Movement without location is useless. Velocity pitchers can have accuracy and movement as well. All things being equal velocity, movement and location is better than no velocity with movement and location. I agree that accuracy is important, but it is less important than having movement and accuracy. A batter can hit a straight pitch any where in the strike zone. You must have movement, accuracy, and deception. If you have velocity, movement, accuracy, and deception, all the better. jmo
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Fungo:
I think it all depends on the level of competition. At the high school level the “effectively wild” fastballer will dominate batters because of the lack of plate discipline from the opposing hitters. As the level of play increases and the opposition’s plate discipline increases, the need for control increases. If you can’t hit your spots in college, you probably won’t last long.
Fungo


Agree with Fungo. By the time you get to college - if you cant hit your spots consistently - you
probably wont last very long.

Walks and 90 mph meatballs in college usually spell the end.
M micdsguy1,000+ posts
quote:
See where the catcher puts his mitt, and how often the pitcher is nowhere near the mitt (e.g, catcher moves the mitt a foot or more). Pretty high percentage.

Of course that may have to do with movement or failed movement. But interesting point. Accurately placing trick pitches is a completely different and more complex subject.

My question is how accurate is accurate with a fastball when precision is required?
With basketball and other sports that's easy to know. Baseball is different. Just how close to the bullseye can a good pitcher usually come?
Last edited by micdsguy
T Texan1,000+ posts
To be meaningful, I think you have to approach it a slightly different way. Define a target size first (e.g., catcher doesn't move his mitt more than X inches). Then see what percentage of the time the pitch is caught within that target size.

And giving a target size of a foot (re: my previous post) should take care of any pitch movement. Remember, the catcher knows what pitch he called and is anticipating the movement thereof.
D deldad500+ posts
A pitch that misses by a foot winds up in the middle of the plate or wild. The standard for top pitchers is inches. 1 or 2. Movement is important but even that has to be controllable. A fastball that moves 7 inches from the outside corner in, winds up being a meatball. KC baseball, mine had the same problem every spring, worked tirelessly on balance and mechanics. Balance being the most important. Only a fool builds a house on sand. Maddux and Glavine may have been the best I have ever seen and neither one was a fireballer. Velocity allows you to make mistakes and get away with them. Late movement allows your mistakes not to get hit quite as hard. Location allows you to work the hitter. All three make you a hall of famer.
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
I saw Roger Clemens put on a display a few years back. He was throwing at different X's in the strike zone and his accuracy was phenomenal. He could hit the X every time. +/- 1/2 inch. You asked to compare the fastball to the archer??? Dunno! Could the Rocket throw a 90 mph fast ball and knock an apple off his son's head like the legendary archer William Tell did with his arrow?
T Texan1,000+ posts
I strongly recommend that folks sit down & watch a few entire games. See where the catcher puts the mitt. Then, for those who think the average MLB pitcher can "hit his spot" all the time, see who often the catcher doesn't move his mitt more than a few inches. I think folks will find it is a much lower percentage than they believe.

And a significant amount of time in the playoffs this year I saw catchers set up outside only to catch the pitch inside, or vice versa. And that is a difference of a foot.

Rather than argue, watch a few games and keep a written count.

An acquaintance of mine has won more than a few bets off this.
H HiHardHeat1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by smokky1:
Almost ALL pitchers dont even hit there spot.They just throw it in the area.Even major league pitchers dont have pin point accuracy

It can vary with a pitcher from day-to-day. I've seen days where guys where the mitt will barely move an inch for an entire game. Same pitcher on a different day and he's all over the place. It happens.

Define the ability to throw strikes as control versus the ability to hit your spots as command. It does exist, but will also vary between pitches. You can have command over a FB, but just decent control of a changeup. To the casual observer, it looks like you are missing your spot, but the pitch is different and the change is based on deception and movement.

If you don't believe command exists, break out some tapes of Maddox throughout the 90's and look at his 12 flavors of fastballs.
M micdsguy1,000+ posts
quote:
I saw Roger Clemens put on a display. He could hit the X every time. +/- 1/2 inch.

This was the sort of info I was looking for. I wouldn't expect even Clemons to do as well in a real game with runners on base, distractions all around and after several tiring innings.

Point is that some top pitchers achieve laser-like control.

Next question: Is it worthwhile for a kid to spend time developing pin-point control...not just hitting corners but coming within an inch of the target?

We see a lot of bragging about "I can hit 90" but never "I can hit a housefly if I want."

Instead of vaguely aiming for the down/away corner, should a HS/college pitcher be encouraged to aim for a spot one inch inside or outside of that spot, for example?
Last edited by micdsguy
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
micdsguy,
Never thought about it before but back when I was an avid archer we always were taught to aim at a very small spot. The smaller the better. From a archery website:
quote:
Make yourself a note here that you`re not just looking at the target in general, you`re looking at the small spot you intend to hit. You lock onto it and see nothing else in your primary vision.
Could it be that the same applies in pitching? Not sure but it does make sense.
Fungo
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