How are these mechanics?

I love Tim Lincicum!!

Appears very strong. Nice mechanics.

I've seen him pitch in person. The velocity he generates from his small frame is amazing! Then he throws a curve and totally fools the batters He bounced one in the dirt 2 feet in front of the plate and the batter still swung at it.

A pitching coach I talked to said he likes to think of pitching as gettin the most out of a whip action where you're hand is the end of the whip. This guy seems like he's real good at that. Not to mention from him the ball probably looks like it comes out of thin air because of how well it seems he hides it.

Oh now that I've looked at it more..LOOK AT THAT STRIDE. He practically jumps at the batter. I like this guy.

I was wondering if anyone took the time to really look at this guy to "see" him jump out off the rubber.

quote:

Originally posted by RobV:
Thoughts on this kids mechanics?

Yes he throws hard, but I'm not convinced that he'll be able to do this consistently.

No pro pitches like he does.

His motion is very violent. His stride also reminds me of Rick Ankiel's.

He has a very compact delivery. Low hand break and seems to have great balance. Very quick to the plate.
I can't see any issues from that 1 clip that would be of concern. I have seen this delivery before and it is usually a hard throwing closer. Also it is a small frame pitcher with a quick arm. Most pitching guys will tell you that a high hand break is a lot of wasted motion. I also see a nice controlled stride.

He's been proving people wrong for a long time it seems. Or maybe...going against what the "norm" is for a pitcher these days.

He's not a closer either. I've read that in his senior year of HS, he pitched 91 innings with 183 K's. At the University of Washington, over a 3 year period he pitched 342 innings, with 491 K's, and never missed a start due to a sore arm.

He also throws high 90's in the 9th inning. Not bad for a 5'11 170# kid.

Interesting how different people interpret the clip ie "jumping off the rubber" vs "controlled stride". Either way this guy has great timing @ footstrike, everything comes together to allow for that terrific arm action. I like the way he goes from toe drag to kick, really finishes strong. Even though likely the end product of the delivery, it is something others should note.

Dosen't surprise me.
I don't find his mechanics that unusuall. His size can be a plus. Small pitchers tend to be very quick. The tall lanky guys tend to have a slower motion. Both types can get it done.

Yank I don't think it is one view VS another. I am not sure what Jump off the rubber means. You do not push off the rubber. Controlled means that he is in control of his motion. Nothing to do with the tempo of the delivery.

Some better clips of him.
http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/eve...6/tracker/search.jsp

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Dosen't surprise me.
I don't find his mechanics that unusuall. His size can be a plus. Small pitchers tend to be very quick. The tall lanky guys tend to have a slower motion. Both types can get it done.

I agree, but tell that to the "baseball guys". Most scouts and pro management probably wouldn't want to take a chance on guy his size. They would more likely rather see a pitcher who is 6'5", especially if he's a righty.

On the draft video you can really see how he generates that velocity.. He has incredible hip flexibility. His hips are completely squared to the plate while his lead shoulder is still tucked in and aligned to the plate in the cocked position... He doesn't need that long stride at all either, because look at his back foot in the cocked position, it has to move with his body. The one advantage of that is the fact that he is as close to the plate as pitcher that is like 6'4".

quote:

Originally posted by thepainguy:
Yes he throws hard, but I'm not convinced that he'll be able to do this consistently.

Why not?

quote:

No pro pitches like he does.

Aside from early arm action, his motion and especially his explosiveness is very reminiscent of Billy Wagner, another not so big guy.

quote:

Originally posted by dm59:

quote:

Originally posted by thepainguy:
Yes he throws hard, but I'm not convinced that he'll be able to do this consistently.

Why not?

quote:

No pro pitches like he does.

Aside from early arm action, his motion and especially his explosiveness is very reminiscent of Billy Wagner, another not so big guy.

The way Lincecum pitches takes tremendous balance and perfect timing. That tends to break down over time. Many pitchers (and golfers) have had to change their mechanics as they got older in order to be successful.

As I think about it, I think a better point of comparison is Roy Oswalt (whose mechanics and timing I like). Oswalt does move forward explosively and has a big stride. However, Oswalt doesn't completely leave his feet as Lincecum appears to. I also believe that Oswalt also isn't as reverse-rotated as he strides.

quote:

Originally posted by thepainguy:
As I think about it, I think a better point of comparison is Roy Oswalt (whose mechanics and timing I like). Oswalt does move forward explosively and has a big stride.

Oswalt does not move forward nearly as much as Lincecum, who pretty much epitomizes that. Oswalt drops significantly on his back leg and rotates (not drop 'n drive but drop 'n rotate). Lincecum has virtually none of that kind of drop. It's all forward, like Wagner. Explosive forward momentum increase with outstanding transfer to torso rotation. This guy puts that together like few others.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Yank I don't think it is one view VS another. I am not sure what Jump off the rubber means. You do not push off the rubber. Controlled means that he is in control of his motion. Nothing to do with the tempo of the delivery.

Bobble, those weren't my words, taken from previous posts. I only mentioned as i thought it interesting that relatively knowledgable observers could see things in a different light.
My impression is that there is no way this pitcher could be "jumping" as his ability to stay closed up to footstrike makes that unlikely. From my experience, those who push off too hard (jump) tend to open their hips early and end up throwing across their body. Clearly not the case here. Sorry for any confusion, I in fact agree he makes a controlled stride, about the max his frame would handle if I had to guess.

Yank you are right. It is amazing what different people see in the same clip.
This guy is about as solid as a RHP can be. The only unusual thing is his hand break and it helps him thrust forward. His plant is almost always perfect which is a further indication of his body control. His arm sweeps beautifully past his thigh and he holds his finish for a few seconds allowing him to be ready to field his position.

quote:

Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
My impression is that there is no way this pitcher could be "jumping" as his ability to stay closed up to footstrike makes that unlikely.

Are you saying that Lincecum's hips are closed at foot strike?

I think he's saying just before foot strike ("up to footstrike").

You can clearly see that his hips are opening as he is planting his foot (rotating into footplant).

quote:

Originally posted by RobV:
I think he's saying just before foot strike ("up to footstrike"). You can clearly see that his hips are opening as he is planting his foot (rotating into footplant).

I agree that the hips open just before the Glove Side (aka GS) foot plants.

The reason I asked the question is that some people believe that the hips don't open until after the GS foot plants. That's not the case...

If the hips didn't open the player would end up on his ear. Young players looking for velocity often "jump" as described earlier. Throws many things off but usually results in throwing across the body at a minimum. I was just agreeing with Bobble regarding the importance of a controlled stride as it relates to timing and balance demonstrated by almost all effective pitchers. I'm sure there are one or two freaks of nature out there that this wouldn't apply to hence "almost".

quote:

Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
If the hips didn't open the player would end up on his ear.

I agree.

The problem is that one of the big gurus (Mills) has apparently said that the hips need to stay closed until after the GS foot plants.

In my experience only ballerinas can manage that.

That's almost physically impossible to do. Your foot would have to land completely closed and then when you rotate your hips your ankle would probably break. When a pitcher's glove side foot lands it is open and pointing towards the plate. You can only land with an open foot if you rotate it open right before foot strike, and when your foot starts to open so will the hips.

quote:

Originally posted by ShepFPC28:
That's almost physically impossible to do. Your foot would have to land completely closed and then when you rotate your hips your ankle would probably break. When a pitcher's glove side foot lands it is open and pointing towards the plate. You can only land with an open foot if you rotate it open right before foot strike, and when your foot starts to open so will the hips.

I agree.

If you tried to land with your hips closed and then rotated your hips, you'd tear up your knee and/or your ankle.

All true. The argument about the hips staying closed until landing is refuted simply by watching video of any good pitcher. Mills knows this but wants pitchers to get as close to it as possible. I think it's a fruitless argument given the evidence. The hips open INTO landing, regardless of what anyone might theorize. There's also benefit to doing it. I think the more relevant queston is whether or not you need to "force" or try to "enhance" it. There are those who believe you don't need to focus on it, just stay closed as long as you can then land with the toe pointing just closed of the target line and the hips will take care of themselves. Not my belief, but it is out there as a recommendation.