How did I not know?

It's important to get in front of the schools on your list reagardless of the showcase. If your son is a D1 prospect chances are the coaches are at PG events. But they will be at others. Succeeding at a PG event shows a player can compete with the best. The best are usually there.

LivingtheDream,

 

I can answer your question honestly.  

 

If your son shows national level ability the PG Showcase will do more for him and you will be very happy that you spent the money.  If your son lacks the necessary ability, save your money, Perfect Game cannot help you.

 

Truth is many don't really know if there son really has the projection needed.  I would find the best, most honest, baseball person you can locate and ask him to evaluate your son.  Why spend the money in order to find that out from us.

 

 

 

Thank you both for the reply.  PG, we would not even consider taking him to any of these events if we had not been told by people who would know that he has a high talent level. We have been told by his pitching coach, who is probably the most respected pitching coach in the region, that he has the talent for that level. 

So, with that in mind what I am hearing you say is that it is worth the money.  If he is as talented as we are told this will be a very good thing for him.  One last question, what would be the upside and downside to waiting a year to do this.  He will be playing varsity baseball next spring.  So my assumption is that getting his info out there this year would be beneficial for him to start contacting college coaches with his pitching schedule next spring.  I'm still having a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea that colleges would want to watch kids that can't even drive yet but I keep seeing that it's happening. 

We start the 16U WWBA tournament tomorrow in Georgia.  There will be at least 200 college coaches here watching.  College recruiting at the highest level has turned into a "early bird gets the worm". There will be recruiters here from every major conference and all those from the SEC and ACC conferences.

 

Nothing is absolute and no event is mandatory, but we do like to identify talented young players as soon as possible.  We actually like to build a history on those with a lot of talent.  So do college recruiters.  That history is extremely valuable because it helps in projection.

 

If two over 6' RH pitchers at 18 years old are very close, both throw 90 mph and can spin the baseball and show good command, and one (pitcher A) we have a two year history, the other (pitcher B) we have a four year history, it can tell us something important.

 

What if pitcher A threw 90-91 as a junior and 90-91 as a senior,  and pitcher B threw 81 as a freshman, 84 as a sophomore, 87 as a junior and 90-91 as a senior.  There is a very good chance that all other things being equal pitcher B will be the best NEXT year.

 

So having a history on talented players can actually in a small way help us predict the future potential of that player.  Doesn't mean it will always be true, it is simply more information and to us all information is valuable. The players history can be a separator.

 

No matter what you do, it sounds like your son has talent and our job will be to identify him at some point. Best of luck.

I can't thank you enough for that response.  That was the exact info I needed to hear.  Thank you again!

What's the cost?

 

And the cost for the regular 1 day showcase?  Back when my son did one, they were around $595.  Is it still the same?

Don't worry about the cost.Just don't go and don't look back.The cost of PG has kept 2016 away also.Never made a difference.

I wouldn't be so concerned with next spring's pitching schedule....I would look to get him on a top level travel team for next summer.  During the spring, very few coaches have time to watch HS kids as it is during their college season too....unless the school is local to you.  The summer travel season is where the majority of the scouting goes on. 

Is this an invite only event, or did you receive a flier in the mail 'inviting' you and that anyone that pays can go?  

 

Your son hasn't played varsity ball yet.  Maybe wait a year and see what comes of the events this summer and next spring, then decide to go?   You may not need to go to a showcase if he commits early.

My advice would be that if your son is very very good now and would warrant an offer at this age then go and spend the money. If he still has work to do and isn't a D1 prospect yet then don't waste your money. They recruiting for most kids really starts their junior year in HS. D2's and D3's wait till their senior year before making offers because they don't want to waste time and have a D1 scoop them up. You can find out how your son stacks up by going to a college's showcase camp for a lot less and get some objective feedback. But like I said, if your son is already throwing in the mid to upper 80's (depending on if he is a lefty or righty) and has good size then you should get on the PG radar. Just one guy's opinion based on my son's experience. 

Thanks everyone.  To those who asked, the PG cost was $649 and the PBR was $150.  But I fully recognize that the experiences and the reach are different.  And the PBR event is local to my area so no travel costs are involved.  The PG event is invite only.  The PBR event is not.  We got an "official invite" but I honestly have no idea what that even means since anyone can sign up.  My guess is that we were on a mailing list from doing the Iowa Baseball camp last January as we've gotten a couple of different invites for events that no one else that we know has gotten. At any rate I will talk it over with my husband tonight and we will make a decision.   

I have never been through this, but I thought it might be helpful to know that a local D1 posts when they have kids who are committed on their webpage and there isn't even a file for 2018 yet, and only two 2017's have committed.

hummm... I thought ncaa limited schools from announcing players until after the NLI is signed.

 

Anyway, the 2017 recruiting is well underway, with 225 commitments per PG (ie: 11 Louisville and 9 Vanderbilt).  If you check their list of commitments from the last 50 days there are several 2018s listed.  One local 2018 committed last year to a powerhouse ACC school.  

 

The summer between sophomore and junior year is a big summer for high performing players.  You will see more commitments in the next several weeks after the WWBAs at Lakepoint.

 

I've noticed a few very high level uncommitted (no commitment list on PerfectGame) 2017s this year. You never know what commitments have been made privately, but is there any chance that a trend is developing for top recruits to wait? Many people who have an opinion on the subject seem to think that there's very little benefit to the player  who commits early. Is that thinking gaining traction?

 

I think depends on a lot of factors. Some kids know that's where they want to go. Some kids like to collect the offers. But to the OP's original question about whether to spend the dollars now. IMO unless you are one of the top prospects then you are probably ok saving the $700. I say that as a dad who spent a lot more then I needed to early on. My son wasn't good enough as a freshman and sophomore to get a D1 offer. He did finally start get those kind of offers and interest in his junior year. If I had to do again would have saved my money and been smarter about it but oh well it worked out in the end.

Good point Rover....my TWELVE year old asked to go to a PG showcase this year in Ft. Myers, I laughed in his face and said "When you have $600 worth of something to show, we can go, until then, go practice!"

This is the top college commitment list for 2017s from the PerfectGame website:

 

1	Vanderbilt	9
2	Louisville	11
3	Southern California	6
4	Florida	7
5	TCU	6
6	Louisiana State	6
7	North Carolina	5
8	Mississippi State	5
9	South Carolina	7
10	UCLA	4

 

 

I would say that many of the top programs are well on their way on their 2017 recruiting.  (Of course, there always seems to be room for a good pitcher!).

 

The information is listed on the the PG homepage.  You just need to page down a bit, and click on 2017.

 

I didn't (and don't) consider my kid to be a top recruit.  He never participated in a PG showcase, but played in several PG tournaments.  He is a position player, which are a dime a dozen.  He had several unofficial visits during his sophomore HS season and committed that summer.  Early maybe?  Many factors play into the decision, but when you see the commitment numbers above, you don't hold out for the likes of USC, UVA, or Vandy if they haven't contacted you. 

Good advice. For most players, showing off your player the last two years of HS most likely will be the best and most affordable for most. Playing is important, get on a good team in HS for getting better. Budget wisely and do what is best for your player, not what everyone else is doing. JMO 

Some of the schools on that list over recruit, so what you see now, won't necessarily be in 2 years.

Off topic but worth mentioning, when you see 18 2015 recruits for UNC and Oregon, and 18 2016s for South Carolina, over recruiting should be on your "watch" or "watch out" list.

After just leaving Atlanta finishing in the top 40 at the WWBA for 2016 grads my son and his teammates are currently in the thick of recruiting. Some of my thoughts:

 

-PG runs some fabulous tournaments. You won't likely find better coordination or communication anywhere especially when you are talking 330+ teams. So good makes your head spin

-PG tournaments have some of the best competition you will find anywhere. Talent coming out of your ears

-talent will draw coaches and if you play well you will get noticed. Son's teammate had some interest prior to the event. Hit close to .600 and hit 3HRs including leading off our playoff game with a homer in front of 50 scouts and coaches.  Several offers by end of the day

-coach walking by our field spotted our SS and based on one game made him an offer (his first after lots who would not pull trigger)

-rarely used pitcher (normally position player) gets on mound at Lakepoint and touches 90 multiple times. One offer by weeks end with several more talking to him 

-several of these boys have been to PG showcases. Several of our most highly rated players have little serious recruiting interest because at game time they have failed to produce regardless of tools. Tools don't always translate to performance when the chips are down. This I am sure is the hardest to evaluate 

-the PG rating may start a conversation with a coach but ultimately without in game performance against quality competition I don't see kids getting offers merely based on a high showcase rating. 

 

This is is only one man's opinion. Playing well at a PG event like WWBA or National Underclass will gain you much more traction in the recruiting game than any rating or ranking from any recruiting service including PG. Absent the perceived talent needed to garner an invite to the PG National or Jr National save your dollars for now and play real games against top talent in front of decision makers. 

 

 

Question. Is an offer after seeing a player for the first time actually a good thing?  

 

I suppose that's a fair question TPM, but for most players even talented ones they are trying to get one executable offer.  Most never even get that. 

Just wondering, sounds more like a pick up. How can you make a determination of a players ability with one look?  

While I get your point, and a good post, I think people need to put it all in perspective.

If a player is genuinely a D1 talent the cost of the showcase is irrelevant. A 25% ride to a 20k state school is worth 5k a year. Unless someone has reinvented math it appears a player could do six $800 showcases and get ROI in one year.

While I know that not all show up, 18 commits and 16 frosh from last year totals almost the max allowed on a team.  That means some players aren't coming back?

I used Vandy because you did.  But that wasn't the program that came to my mind immediately and of another one of those programs has asked players to not show because they have no room on the roster for them. Some of these programs will still ask some to show up as walk ons. And there is always room for another good pitcher, when you remove one player you have one more spot available.

 

The point made by keewart and a good one, if you see numbers like that don't hold out thinking that you have the slightest chance of getting an offer because it probably won't happen. These programs make you commit early for a reason.

 

By the way I would spend my time and effort seeking out better opportunities for my player that best fits his skill and academics rather than figuring out if there is room on an already over crowded roster..just sayin.

I just pointed out examples in the list above.  They may not be the ones that over recruit.  Like Nuke mentioned, there are other factors that go into recruiting many freshman each year.

 

I have been on this board long enough to know not to mention the historically true offenders in over recruiting  And, each year is different with different needs for schools.

He's still young but does he have list of schools he's interested in? Will those coaches be at the fall showcases including PBR?  My son got interest at PBR local event but coaches actually saw him play after that during PG event. Guess it can be interrelated. 

Personally, since he's doing three other events and he's so young, I would use the money elsewhere. Keep seeing pitching coach, and see how he does at HS Varsity level next yr.

Also harder on P to showcase close together.  

The amount of high level recruiting that is going on this summer in Georgia at the WWBA events is astounding.   We have had players receive 10 or more offers while they have been here.  

 

Today at the 16U looks like a major college coaches convention.  Coaches from nearly every one of the nations top college programs along with a very large number of DI, DII and other college coaches.  Both head coaches and recruiting coordinators watching 15 and 16 year olds play.   There are a lot of kids that will end up committing early out of this event. Next will come the visit or camp, where they can actually get the offer.

 

I'm not sure this is all a good thing, but I do think people with talented underclassmen should know about it.  If you wait too long to be recognized, you better be extra special, because there are some 7,000 high school freshman and sophomores down here right now performing in front of all these college coaches. And every one of those coaches knows they will be competing against one another to land many of these young players.

 

All that said,  all the above is nearly meaningless if you are not talented enough to impress college coaches.  Some say they want to stay local for college.  Many don't think about the actual offer at that local college. They just don't seem to think getting to events like the one mentioned above pertains to their interest. Well....  Many times we have seen how different that offer can get when the player creates genuine interest from other colleges.  Some say, everything worked for us and we didn't need to do any of that stuff.  My question is... How could you possibly know what might have happened had you done that stuff.

PG Staff, like you said it is completely dependent on the kid's talent level. If you go to a showcase as a rising sophomore you should be good enough that a D1 school will have serious interest and would want to make an offer. If the kid is good but not mature enough physically to get that kind of interest then I would argue that they could save their money. Rover Jr. Went to a PG showcase as a rising sophomore and showed well. Got an 8 rating, but was only throwing in the low 80's. PG gave him a very positive eval but no D1 was interested at that time. A year later he was mid to upper 80's and he started getting real interest from D1's. Being on a very well respected travel team with a coach who has significant relationships with several college coaches was really the biggest thing that got him noticed along with Jr reaching out to schools. PG offers the platform to perform but if you are relying on PG to get you a scholarship then you don't really understand the recruiting process. The kid who actively reaches out to coaches and has a reputable travel or HS coach who works to get this kids seen as opposed to just focusing on winning tournaments is more reliable then just showing up at a PG event and hoping to get an offer. Again just one guy's opinion.

The Rover,

 

You know I read here all the time how these summer teams are to showcase individuals and don't or shouldn't care about winning.

 

I'm really trying to figure out where people see this.  Having seen nearly every top summer and fall program many times over the years, I just don't see this not caring if they win, attitude. In fact, I see the exact opposite and some of the most competitive people I know.

 

Does anyone really think college coaches and MLB scouts aren't interested in seeing highly competitive players.  Players competing to win.  Teams competing to win.   You learn a lot about players in that environment.  And that is where you find those kids that become the best prospects.

 

Those that come thinking winning is not the reason they are there, are there for the wrong reason.  Sure the individual performance is important, but the games are played to win.  Teams that are eliminated from the playoffs, should stick around and watch.  It would quickly change their mind if they think the top teams with lots of the top players aren't interested in winning.  I guess you have to see it to fully understand.  It's all about winning!  The most impressive performance is the one involved in trying/playing to win.

 

I can state with certainty, the best teams that produce the most prospects, care the most about winning. That is why all those college coaches and MLB scouts are there, they want to see that.

PG Staff, Not trying to argue here but you are making a bit of a false argument. Never said anything about not wanting to win and not being competitive. Rover Jr's team has 11 kids committed to D1 schools with a couple more still to commit. Team is one of the most respected in the region. Team had won or been in the finals of PG tournaments this year and I can tell with certainty that they never focus ONLY on winning. They don't overuse their pitchers. If a kid has a school there to see them that day, they will start vs another kid who might already be committed. Focusing on getting kids seen (which last I checked was the main reason we spend all of this money at your tournaments) vs only focusing on winning the tournament is how it should be. Very often both will happen if you have a good enough team. And to your comment that I need to see it to know what your talking about, trust me I've seen good team run badly and bad teams run well and scouts don't care about the team's PG finish in a tournament. Usually the teams finishing high up in a tournament are loaded with good talent and have deep pitching. Pretty simple formula.

The point I was making was actually directed at many comments made over the years.  There were no false statements.  Most of the highest level teams do not abuse their pitchers. The championship game in the 300+ WWBA 17U at LakePoint was played between a team from Texas and a team from California.  Most of those players had already committed to colleges.  Both were in Georgia to win the championship.  The California team displayed the importance of winning with a great big dog pile after the final out.

 

I probably shouldn't have addressed my comments to you.  Really meant it to be an over all response to those that think these teams don't care about winning.

 

While I'm at it, here is another thing that some don't understand.  We started doing these highest level tournaments years ago.  The thing we realized is that NCAA rules made it nearly impossible to help talented kids that couldn't afford showcases and other forms of travel and exposure.  We knew of many club or summer teams that would pick up talented kids  and help them.  So Travel Baseball has actually created an avenue to help a large number of talented kids receive opportunities that never existed before.  There are many kids playing Travel Baseball that couldn't afford that type of exposure in other ways. 

 

So Travel Baseball actually gets scolded as pricing kids out, when in many cases it has become the only way in for those kids!  However, people don't seem to know how much this has helped.  We see an increase in many areas, including the number of Arican Americans playing Travel Baseball In our events.  This will soon have an effect on MLB and then someone will do the research and find out just how positive Travel Baseball actually was to the game.  Even those that are current naysayers will start to understand what is taking place.

 

BTW, I really have no interest in arguing about anything.  I don't even care if anyone really listens to what I have to say.  I do know that I am in no position to lie about anything.  I know there are people who would love to catch me in a lie.  So when I say something it is 100% true in my mind.  We can afford to be wrong at times, we cannot afford to be wrong on purpose.  There are some people just waiting for that to happen.

 

I love baseball, I hate this business stuff.  Think about it... Ask any scout or coach and they will tell you how great the game would be if it weren't for the parents.  And guess who our "customers" are?  Luckily, many parents feel the same way the scouts and coaches do.  

 

There are still many that don't get it.  Just yesterday a dad became famous at Lake Point.  He personally eliminated many college possibilities for his talented son.  I doubt he even realized it, as he became a big warning flag and his son was being check marked off of lists. He became a hot topic among a large group of college coaches.  Probably OK in his mind because he knows his bitching about everything was right. Bitch about coaches decision, bitched about scoreboard being wrong, bitched about umpire calls, bitched about the rules, bitched about his sons teammates, bitched about PG, etc.  Sometimes amazes me how stupid a person can be.

I appreciate your comments and perspective. Not meaning to diminish anything you guys are doing. I wholeheartedly agree that some parents are huge problems and just get in the way. They don't understand that this is the kid's journey and not theirs. Parents should adopt the seen but not heard approach at these events. I have a great time at PG events. Think they run very well with friendly staff. I'm not here to bash anyone. Just trying to offer my perspective to help other parents who will go through what I have gone through the last several years. 

So, if a kid is from an isolated area, and his travel team only gets a couple of weeks exposure a summer, should he do showcases (stanford, headfirst, pg, assuming he can afford them) or would he be better served to find a quality travel team and live away from home for the summer?

I can only speak to my son's experience, which was getting on a top notch travel organization that had a lot of contacts with schools. We constantly had multiple schools at his games because the coach is trusted by the schools and make the trip because if he is recommending the kid they know he won't waste their time. Others I'm sure would vouch for the showcase route but I think that would get pretty expensive since most of the ones you mentioned are $700-1,000 per event. I also liked the travel team route because we did organizational days at schools where the kids got exposure. And playing in all of the big tournaments got them repeated exposure for schools who wanted to see a kid more than once.

smokeminside,

That is a great question.  Around here there are no travel teams in the summer.  Well, I think there is one but the one kid I know on it is there because he got cut from his high school legion team.  Everyone plays legion ball, even the kids who have signed with D1 colleges.  So while not isolated, in order to get 2018 onto a high level travel team he would have to move away from home for the summer and we would have the pay the cost of travel and the team for him.  The $649 is a hell of a lot cheaper than that.  So if we were looking at it completely from a cost perspective the showcase would be the way to go.  But I know there is a lot more to it than that.  I think in our case the first thing we need to do is get a handle on where exactly 2018 sits.  And he needs to get more specific as to what his goals are. From there we can put together an action plan to help him reach those goals.

Living the Dream, i sent you a dm.

Isn't the OP being sort of mixed up?Is there not a huge difference along with completly different answers when talking about going to a PG showcase along with the cost vs. playing in a PG run tournement.2016 has played in many,many PG tourneys over the years(H.s. age). Off the top of my head I can't think of anything negative about any PG tourney we have been too.Typically you find the better/best teams in area there.But none of that has much to do with going to a PG showcase along with whatever the charge.Two different things.